Eagledad

Hi All Anarchist has some great stuff. Considering the idea of multiple smaller trailers so a diesel rig isnt required to pull it. Im reaching way back into my gray matter, but I think a trailer heavier than 850lbs empty really needs a truck size vehicle to pull it when loaded. While multiple trailers does require additional storage and security requirements, they also give you more options of including cars and mini vans. The second largest Troop in our district (120 scouts) owns five 6x10 steel trailers. They grab only what they need for the number of scouts going on an outing. We have on several occasions needed both our trailers because the Troop and high adventure crew were on separate outings at the same time. Consider steel over aluminum. Our steel trailer is stronger, lighter and cheaper for the quality than our aluminum. Seems like aluminum would be lighter, but they need plywood walls to protect the aluminum walls from shifting cargo, steel doesnt. Consider wood floors because they are easier to replace than rusted steel floors. Consider 15 inch wheels because smaller wheels have a higher risk of burning out bearings. Consider mounting the spare tire inside your trailer to prevent theft. We like it mounted high up on the door. High so it doesnt take up cargo space and on, or near, the door so you dont have to empty the trailer to get to it. The company from which we bought our steel trailer liked this idea so much, they are now offering this option to all their customers. The 6 ft. wide is a lot easier to pull than the 7 ft. for most cars with stock mirrors. The wheel distance on our 7 ft. trailer is wider than my Suburban. Consider getting it as tall as you can so you can stand up strait. Consider a trailer that has the axle mounted slightly aft of center so that the trailer doesnt tip up when you enter it unhooked from the vehicle. You will understand what I mean when you go look at trailers. Consider getting electrical hookups that fit all your towing vehicles. There are two popular types(cant remember what they are called) for trailers of this size. We keep both hookups in a bag in the trailer. Those are a few of the lessons we have learned the last 14 or so years. Barry

This is normal for this age. There are a lot of changes going on in his life. He is getting away from the age of hanging with groups to feel good about himself. Now he starting to look beyound acceptance in the group to acceptance in the the world. His emotions are starting to get mixed up and now he doesn't want to do things just because someone says so. He is growing into a man and the urges that come with that are independent thinking. He wants purpose to his actions and scouting is getting in the way of that. This is when I ask parents to push just enough. Enough to keep him active without stepping to much into his space. Beg, make deals or even give money, but keep him in the program because in most cases, this will only last about year. Once you get through that, he will feel a belonging with the program again, provided the program is mature for him. And that is important. He needs a man size responsibility to feel good about himself. The uniform is a big clue. When we humans get at the age of questioning ourselves and world, we tend to want to discard things that don't make sense. I would expect that your son is protesting in some small way as well by not wearing as expected. He is rebelling and that is how youth at this age challenge others with their questions. Take the challenge and teach him. Sometimes it is you that will learn a lot because maybe you will find he is right. I got my boys through these times by making a deal. I told them that I wouldn't expect them to go to everyone meeting or campout, but they could only one meeting a month, and one camp out every six months or so. This is hard because I was the SM. As for uniform, I got good at explaining the value of it and loyalty of doing the right thing. In most cases, he will have no trouble with the uniform when he reaches 14 or 15. We had two groups go to Philmont last year. It was very clear that the 13 to 14 year olds had little respect compared to the 15 16 year old group. Eventally they grow past it. But your son has a lot on his mind and scouting challenges a lot of that. Give him some room like you have been doing, but don't give in for at least another year. Barry

Good reply anarchist The ASM responsible for Quarter masters called me Saturday night and confessed he felt it was part his fault. He had planned to build the anchor lock for both trailers but just hadn't got to it yet. The reason the thieves didn't get our other trailer was because it had the socket lock you talked about. Unfortunatly the other trailer had an unusual tongue where the socket lock would not work. The cut right through the other lock. Good advise and I will send your post to him. Barry

Hi All The tale starts a month ago on a Monday when a committee member happen to see their troop trailer with their Troop number painted on the side being pulled by a car that didn't belong to anyone in the troop. She called the police and the Troop got their trailer back that day while the thieves get free food and lodging for their efforts. Now lets zip up to yesterday. I got a call from the CC asking if our trailer was insured. Yep, it was stolen sometime last week along with our sponsor's church trailer. It is insured by our sponsor, so no problem there, but the one major difference between our trailer and the other troop is we didn't put any identifiable markings like our troop number and city. It is likely we will never see it again. The CC is already planning to get the Troop number put on our new High Adventure trailer. It was broken into as well, but it wasn't taken because it had a different kind of lock the theives couldn't break. Thus the story has a lesson. I know there was a lot of luck envolved for the other troop to get their trailer back, but I guess we didn't really give ourselves much of a chance. YIS Barry

Hi All There are some really good replies. Your scouts must make amends if they are get anything out of scouting. We had a situation like on an AF Base. I knew what had to happen and I had two concerns. One that the youth leaders set the plans to make amends. The other was that all the scouts see the moral wrong of the situation. I agree with others that you can't leave the park the way it is. The scouts must understand that. But it's the scouts who need to make contact, find out the damage and figure out how to pay for it. It's unfair that these owners view all scouts as bad from the performance of a very few. It's time they see what scouting is all about. The base also didn't want to have anything to do with us, but eventally got them to understand they we could let it stand as it was. We ended doing several service projects. Your scouts will step to the plate. You need to pretty much show your disapointment, explain the larger ramifications of a few. Then let them talk it out and figure a plan. They will not disapoint you. Our PLC also took three scout meetings and did a program on proper behavoir. There is alot of material out there. It turned into a troop project. As for the scouts who caused the problem. They need to understand that such actions can't go without retrubution. Ask them, what are they going to do. Either they can fix this now, or it can hang or their head as long as they are in the troop. One action on the troop is they can never be trusted to be alone again. Everytime they go into a store, shop or anyplace where they can cause harm, there will be someone asigned to watch them. We did this to a scout who cause damage at our church during a meeting and he has not been trouble since. More than anything else, I've learned that scouts in a boy run program hate to loose the trust of others. Nothing like an adult or older scout following your around while everyone else is free to come and go. What you are trying to do is give the scout notice that you expect them to deal with this kind of behavoir. ITS NOT YOUR PROBLEM, it's theres. And you expect them to take the responsibility seriously. Than is just who you are, and either they except that, or move on. What you want to happen is the other scouts stopping the one scout before it gets to this point. Barry

>>WHY are so many people so scared of having an atheist around their christian kids? Afterall, there are "no benifits" to being an atheist.

>>To my knowledge there has NEVER been any radio or TV commerical trying to convert people to the idea that there is NO God.

>>Discrimination Against Me

>>Barry, as your probably know, psychologists really don't care much about what is "normal."

>>I agree one zillion billion per cent. Now, if we could only get BSA to agree.... :-)

>>implying that this biology is somehow chosen. (sigh) This may be a popular opinion, but it has no scientific basis.

>> I would much rather have untrained homosexual leaders running a troop then to have bigots who discriminate and promote intolerance against minorities, other religions and homosexuals.

>>How come the only elements of scouting anybody ever talks about when the want to be like other countries is having homosexual leaders and different uniforms uniform.

>>Off hand, this is what I would recommend. The adult leaders should set up a HQ camp. This can be at the starting point of the hike, somewhere in the middle, or wherever you choose.

This is easy because the situation is still distant. Maybe another poll should be started because I don't want to hijack this from Semper, but what if the Scoutmaster announced he is gay. Do you want him to be your sons role model? Would it be OK if he brought his life partner? Barry

>>See, I'm much less concerned about "injustice" or "fairness" on this issue... for me it is not about whether gay men should be Scoutmasters.

>>The ADVANCEMENT method doesn't have to strictly mean TF-Eagle. It means helping a young man structure his growth and development.

Yes, but to be fair Snake, we need to evauate the programs. 1. Are they boy run, adult run, MB driven? 2. Number of scouts in the troops. 3. Aged based patrols or mixed age. 4. Quality of first year program. 5. Over all quality of program from 1 to 10, 10 being the best. There are some good reasons for a 12 month NSP, aged based patrols being a good one. Barry

>>Assimilating into the other patrols is usually not a good idea.

>>We're just embarking on our first year of using it "by the book" and I hope it works as planned!

I agree with everything Semper is saying, but I think most of our replies are based off the assumption of a well-planned and wel-run meeting. If the meeting is just repeating what everyone already knows, or is run so poorly that nothing gets done, then you have a different problem. The meeting first has to have a purpose where the scouts see a value. What do your meeting agendas include? Barry

Hi All I agree with Dug that the job has to one that scouts want. In our Troop, the quartermaster is the second of three steps toward SPL. While none of the steps are required, scouts are expected to have experience as a PL, Quartermaster, ASPL and then SPL. There is a purpose to the madness; The Patrol Leader is the first step in learning to control the group, delegating and planning at the small group level. Quartermaster is viewed as learning how to teach and delegate at a large group level as the Troop Quartermaster is expected to teach Patrol Quartermasters how to do their jobs at the Patrol level, and delegate the Patrols to managing and loading and unloading the trailers. The ASPL is responsibile for all activity planning. By the time a scout gets to SPL, he is very experienced with the leadership skills of the troop. In our Troop, the Quartermaster is a large position of trust and responsibility with property. He is issued his own set of keys to the storeroom and the trailer. He is responsible for helping the tow vehicle driver backup, hookup and he makes sure the trailer is loaded properly so that of the equipment is balanced between the wheels of the towing vehicle and trailer. The Quartermaster is expected to lock and unlock the storeroom and trailer, so he has to be reliable. The SPL in our Troop unlocks and locks the church for Troop meetings. He is the first in and last out. If the SPL doesnt make the meeting, he better find someone to do the job for him. The Quartermaster is training for the responsibility. Nobody gets into the storeroom or trailer without first talking with the Quartermaster. The SM and CC also have keys, but that is only for emergencies. The CC and I had and understanding that even in an emergency, we first call the Quartermaster. When it comes to loading and unloading the trailer and storeroom, the adults get out of the way and the Quartermaster is in charge. He delegates task to his Patrol Quartermasters who are in charge of the Patrols at that time and delegate duties to the patrol members. The idea is while the Patrol Leaders are working with the SPL on car seating assignments or camp assignments, the quartermasters are responsible for the equipment. The adults wait with the SM to find out who is assigned to their vehicle. When it works, it works very well. The Quartermaster job is very demanding, we had two when our troop had 90 scouts. They work pretty hard, but we have the opposite problem with our Quartermaster position in that once a scout gets the job, many times they dont want to leave. Imagine that if an adult needs to get in the trailer or storeroom, they have to go to the Quartermaster for permission and a key. Most or our Troop Quartermaster ages start about 14. I think the best way to make your Quartermaster position attractive to scouts is to give them the responsibilities of an adult. Once the expectations and requirements of the job are understood, I dont think you will have trouble. We sure dont. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>My time to really get to know these Lads (In a troop of 90 Scouts at times I never really got to know a Lad well until he became a PL) It was my time to make these Lads feel special.A round of soda pop or candy bars at the business meeting went a very long way.It was my time to listen to them and find out how things were really going.

Pass along important imformation that they will regret not getting. Can be anything like a reward for everyone wearing full uniform at the next meeting to bring a swimsuit to the next meeting because you are going swimming. I'm sure others can give ideas as well. This could also be a sign that they aren't getting anything important from the meetings and your agenda might needs some changes. Barry

Hi All >>Might be a bit involved, but what this then does is we can have trained leaders the weekend after they are elected. We do this every six months, and we see it really helps our guys.