Eagledad

Hi All There are some really good replies. Your scouts must make amends if they are get anything out of scouting. We had a situation like on an AF Base. I knew what had to happen and I had two concerns. One that the youth leaders set the plans to make amends. The other was that all the scouts see the moral wrong of the situation. I agree with others that you can't leave the park the way it is. The scouts must understand that. But it's the scouts who need to make contact, find out the damage and figure out how to pay for it. It's unfair that these owners view all scouts as bad from the performance of a very few. It's time they see what scouting is all about. The base also didn't want to have anything to do with us, but eventally got them to understand they we could let it stand as it was. We ended doing several service projects. Your scouts will step to the plate. You need to pretty much show your disapointment, explain the larger ramifications of a few. Then let them talk it out and figure a plan. They will not disapoint you. Our PLC also took three scout meetings and did a program on proper behavoir. There is alot of material out there. It turned into a troop project. As for the scouts who caused the problem. They need to understand that such actions can't go without retrubution. Ask them, what are they going to do. Either they can fix this now, or it can hang or their head as long as they are in the troop. One action on the troop is they can never be trusted to be alone again. Everytime they go into a store, shop or anyplace where they can cause harm, there will be someone asigned to watch them. We did this to a scout who cause damage at our church during a meeting and he has not been trouble since. More than anything else, I've learned that scouts in a boy run program hate to loose the trust of others. Nothing like an adult or older scout following your around while everyone else is free to come and go. What you are trying to do is give the scout notice that you expect them to deal with this kind of behavoir. ITS NOT YOUR PROBLEM, it's theres. And you expect them to take the responsibility seriously. Than is just who you are, and either they except that, or move on. What you want to happen is the other scouts stopping the one scout before it gets to this point. Barry

>>WHY are so many people so scared of having an atheist around their christian kids? Afterall, there are "no benifits" to being an atheist.

>>To my knowledge there has NEVER been any radio or TV commerical trying to convert people to the idea that there is NO God.

>>Discrimination Against Me

>>Barry, as your probably know, psychologists really don't care much about what is "normal."

>>I agree one zillion billion per cent. Now, if we could only get BSA to agree.... :-)

>>implying that this biology is somehow chosen. (sigh) This may be a popular opinion, but it has no scientific basis.

>> I would much rather have untrained homosexual leaders running a troop then to have bigots who discriminate and promote intolerance against minorities, other religions and homosexuals.

>>How come the only elements of scouting anybody ever talks about when the want to be like other countries is having homosexual leaders and different uniforms uniform.

>>Off hand, this is what I would recommend. The adult leaders should set up a HQ camp. This can be at the starting point of the hike, somewhere in the middle, or wherever you choose.

This is easy because the situation is still distant. Maybe another poll should be started because I don't want to hijack this from Semper, but what if the Scoutmaster announced he is gay. Do you want him to be your sons role model? Would it be OK if he brought his life partner? Barry

>>See, I'm much less concerned about "injustice" or "fairness" on this issue... for me it is not about whether gay men should be Scoutmasters.

>>The ADVANCEMENT method doesn't have to strictly mean TF-Eagle. It means helping a young man structure his growth and development.

Yes, but to be fair Snake, we need to evauate the programs. 1. Are they boy run, adult run, MB driven? 2. Number of scouts in the troops. 3. Aged based patrols or mixed age. 4. Quality of first year program. 5. Over all quality of program from 1 to 10, 10 being the best. There are some good reasons for a 12 month NSP, aged based patrols being a good one. Barry

>>Assimilating into the other patrols is usually not a good idea.

>>We're just embarking on our first year of using it "by the book" and I hope it works as planned!

I agree with everything Semper is saying, but I think most of our replies are based off the assumption of a well-planned and wel-run meeting. If the meeting is just repeating what everyone already knows, or is run so poorly that nothing gets done, then you have a different problem. The meeting first has to have a purpose where the scouts see a value. What do your meeting agendas include? Barry

Hi All I agree with Dug that the job has to one that scouts want. In our Troop, the quartermaster is the second of three steps toward SPL. While none of the steps are required, scouts are expected to have experience as a PL, Quartermaster, ASPL and then SPL. There is a purpose to the madness; The Patrol Leader is the first step in learning to control the group, delegating and planning at the small group level. Quartermaster is viewed as learning how to teach and delegate at a large group level as the Troop Quartermaster is expected to teach Patrol Quartermasters how to do their jobs at the Patrol level, and delegate the Patrols to managing and loading and unloading the trailers. The ASPL is responsibile for all activity planning. By the time a scout gets to SPL, he is very experienced with the leadership skills of the troop. In our Troop, the Quartermaster is a large position of trust and responsibility with property. He is issued his own set of keys to the storeroom and the trailer. He is responsible for helping the tow vehicle driver backup, hookup and he makes sure the trailer is loaded properly so that of the equipment is balanced between the wheels of the towing vehicle and trailer. The Quartermaster is expected to lock and unlock the storeroom and trailer, so he has to be reliable. The SPL in our Troop unlocks and locks the church for Troop meetings. He is the first in and last out. If the SPL doesnt make the meeting, he better find someone to do the job for him. The Quartermaster is training for the responsibility. Nobody gets into the storeroom or trailer without first talking with the Quartermaster. The SM and CC also have keys, but that is only for emergencies. The CC and I had and understanding that even in an emergency, we first call the Quartermaster. When it comes to loading and unloading the trailer and storeroom, the adults get out of the way and the Quartermaster is in charge. He delegates task to his Patrol Quartermasters who are in charge of the Patrols at that time and delegate duties to the patrol members. The idea is while the Patrol Leaders are working with the SPL on car seating assignments or camp assignments, the quartermasters are responsible for the equipment. The adults wait with the SM to find out who is assigned to their vehicle. When it works, it works very well. The Quartermaster job is very demanding, we had two when our troop had 90 scouts. They work pretty hard, but we have the opposite problem with our Quartermaster position in that once a scout gets the job, many times they dont want to leave. Imagine that if an adult needs to get in the trailer or storeroom, they have to go to the Quartermaster for permission and a key. Most or our Troop Quartermaster ages start about 14. I think the best way to make your Quartermaster position attractive to scouts is to give them the responsibilities of an adult. Once the expectations and requirements of the job are understood, I dont think you will have trouble. We sure dont. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>My time to really get to know these Lads (In a troop of 90 Scouts at times I never really got to know a Lad well until he became a PL) It was my time to make these Lads feel special.A round of soda pop or candy bars at the business meeting went a very long way.It was my time to listen to them and find out how things were really going.

Pass along important imformation that they will regret not getting. Can be anything like a reward for everyone wearing full uniform at the next meeting to bring a swimsuit to the next meeting because you are going swimming. I'm sure others can give ideas as well. This could also be a sign that they aren't getting anything important from the meetings and your agenda might needs some changes. Barry

Hi All >>Might be a bit involved, but what this then does is we can have trained leaders the weekend after they are elected. We do this every six months, and we see it really helps our guys.

HI Vrooman I don't have experience with a single patrol, but I think would try to approach it in a way that would least upset the program when another patrol needs to be added. I would work the Patrol side of the program, not the troop side because the basic job of the SPL is coordinating and teaching the Patrol Leaders. You will find the PL responsibilities are pretty much the same as the SPL, just on a smaller scale. Once you get the next patrol, you can suggest adding someone to help coordinate multiple Patrol leaders (SPL). Hey acco, I'm not much for adult patrols being a role model for the Scout patrols, but we had an older scout as the adult Patrol Leader. It works very well because the adults respect his advice and guidence and the new adults follow him like glue trying to learn the program. That left the SM to his own duties with the SPL. And the older scout grew up a lot as well. Barry

>>I can usually borrow a scout book from a younger scout if I need one.>I still use the handbook as a packing list to pack my backpack.

>>but it happened. JLTC asking for input online is another first.

>>The BDU thing is a nice idea, but that'll run atleast $200 a uniform.