Eagledad

>>How come the only elements of scouting anybody ever talks about when the want to be like other countries is having homosexual leaders and different uniforms uniform.

>>Off hand, this is what I would recommend. The adult leaders should set up a HQ camp. This can be at the starting point of the hike, somewhere in the middle, or wherever you choose.

This is easy because the situation is still distant. Maybe another poll should be started because I don't want to hijack this from Semper, but what if the Scoutmaster announced he is gay. Do you want him to be your sons role model? Would it be OK if he brought his life partner? Barry

>>See, I'm much less concerned about "injustice" or "fairness" on this issue... for me it is not about whether gay men should be Scoutmasters.

>>The ADVANCEMENT method doesn't have to strictly mean TF-Eagle. It means helping a young man structure his growth and development.

Yes, but to be fair Snake, we need to evauate the programs. 1. Are they boy run, adult run, MB driven? 2. Number of scouts in the troops. 3. Aged based patrols or mixed age. 4. Quality of first year program. 5. Over all quality of program from 1 to 10, 10 being the best. There are some good reasons for a 12 month NSP, aged based patrols being a good one. Barry

>>Assimilating into the other patrols is usually not a good idea.

>>We're just embarking on our first year of using it "by the book" and I hope it works as planned!

I agree with everything Semper is saying, but I think most of our replies are based off the assumption of a well-planned and wel-run meeting. If the meeting is just repeating what everyone already knows, or is run so poorly that nothing gets done, then you have a different problem. The meeting first has to have a purpose where the scouts see a value. What do your meeting agendas include? Barry

Hi All I agree with Dug that the job has to one that scouts want. In our Troop, the quartermaster is the second of three steps toward SPL. While none of the steps are required, scouts are expected to have experience as a PL, Quartermaster, ASPL and then SPL. There is a purpose to the madness; The Patrol Leader is the first step in learning to control the group, delegating and planning at the small group level. Quartermaster is viewed as learning how to teach and delegate at a large group level as the Troop Quartermaster is expected to teach Patrol Quartermasters how to do their jobs at the Patrol level, and delegate the Patrols to managing and loading and unloading the trailers. The ASPL is responsibile for all activity planning. By the time a scout gets to SPL, he is very experienced with the leadership skills of the troop. In our Troop, the Quartermaster is a large position of trust and responsibility with property. He is issued his own set of keys to the storeroom and the trailer. He is responsible for helping the tow vehicle driver backup, hookup and he makes sure the trailer is loaded properly so that of the equipment is balanced between the wheels of the towing vehicle and trailer. The Quartermaster is expected to lock and unlock the storeroom and trailer, so he has to be reliable. The SPL in our Troop unlocks and locks the church for Troop meetings. He is the first in and last out. If the SPL doesnt make the meeting, he better find someone to do the job for him. The Quartermaster is training for the responsibility. Nobody gets into the storeroom or trailer without first talking with the Quartermaster. The SM and CC also have keys, but that is only for emergencies. The CC and I had and understanding that even in an emergency, we first call the Quartermaster. When it comes to loading and unloading the trailer and storeroom, the adults get out of the way and the Quartermaster is in charge. He delegates task to his Patrol Quartermasters who are in charge of the Patrols at that time and delegate duties to the patrol members. The idea is while the Patrol Leaders are working with the SPL on car seating assignments or camp assignments, the quartermasters are responsible for the equipment. The adults wait with the SM to find out who is assigned to their vehicle. When it works, it works very well. The Quartermaster job is very demanding, we had two when our troop had 90 scouts. They work pretty hard, but we have the opposite problem with our Quartermaster position in that once a scout gets the job, many times they dont want to leave. Imagine that if an adult needs to get in the trailer or storeroom, they have to go to the Quartermaster for permission and a key. Most or our Troop Quartermaster ages start about 14. I think the best way to make your Quartermaster position attractive to scouts is to give them the responsibilities of an adult. Once the expectations and requirements of the job are understood, I dont think you will have trouble. We sure dont. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>My time to really get to know these Lads (In a troop of 90 Scouts at times I never really got to know a Lad well until he became a PL) It was my time to make these Lads feel special.A round of soda pop or candy bars at the business meeting went a very long way.It was my time to listen to them and find out how things were really going.

Pass along important imformation that they will regret not getting. Can be anything like a reward for everyone wearing full uniform at the next meeting to bring a swimsuit to the next meeting because you are going swimming. I'm sure others can give ideas as well. This could also be a sign that they aren't getting anything important from the meetings and your agenda might needs some changes. Barry

Hi All >>Might be a bit involved, but what this then does is we can have trained leaders the weekend after they are elected. We do this every six months, and we see it really helps our guys.

HI Vrooman I don't have experience with a single patrol, but I think would try to approach it in a way that would least upset the program when another patrol needs to be added. I would work the Patrol side of the program, not the troop side because the basic job of the SPL is coordinating and teaching the Patrol Leaders. You will find the PL responsibilities are pretty much the same as the SPL, just on a smaller scale. Once you get the next patrol, you can suggest adding someone to help coordinate multiple Patrol leaders (SPL). Hey acco, I'm not much for adult patrols being a role model for the Scout patrols, but we had an older scout as the adult Patrol Leader. It works very well because the adults respect his advice and guidence and the new adults follow him like glue trying to learn the program. That left the SM to his own duties with the SPL. And the older scout grew up a lot as well. Barry

>>I can usually borrow a scout book from a younger scout if I need one.>I still use the handbook as a packing list to pack my backpack.

>>but it happened. JLTC asking for input online is another first.

>>The BDU thing is a nice idea, but that'll run atleast $200 a uniform.

>> Well, I can see not taking your handbook once you've reached First Class

>>It would appear that National should once again consider the Leadership Corps by examining how it works in the troops that have kept it going all these years.

Good Friday All I'm with Fscouter. Just about everything a scout needs in the program is in that book. I know this is the wrong place to say it, but one big reason we like BDUs was so the scouts could put the books in their pockets. Qur scouts quickly learned that when they asked me a question about scouting, it was likekly they were going to be asked to look at their book first. They even made some skits about it. I didn't realize how much our scouts took this to heart until we went on a 10 mile Philmont shakedown hike. Even though we had done backpacking equipment reviews, some of the scouts still brought their Scout Book. Nobody knows better that a SM how often boys loose or leave their books in the weather. I am sure I have at least a dozen without names in one of my boxes of scouting stuff. But, if they don't learn the lesson of taking responsibility of their personal items now, then when? As for loosing the advancement records, we teach our scouts to run the advancement records part of the book through a copier every now and then. I know Troopmaster is a good backup, but I just wanted the scouts to also learn how to back up their records. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Badgerface? There's a picture. It seems you guys already know your problems and are really looking for a way to change bad habits. Actually a more common problem than most would think. Since your adults want to work with you, ask them to get your troop a copy of Troop Program Features. They are loaded with "fun" theme ideas that can acheive the adults goal with the first year scouts as well as kick your program back into the fun gear. The meeting agenda examples are easy to learn and apply. They will help your first meeting. Then get copys of the Patrol leaders Handbook for the patrol leaders and a copy of the SPL Handbook for the SPL and SM. Then make sure the SPL and SM work together using the handbooks to get the patrol method back on track. Then ask your adults to go to Scoutmaster Specific training where that course does a pretty good job of explaining the program. If nothing else, hopefully it will help them understand the real purpose of the First Class First year thing. I think those suggestions are the quickest way of getting your program back on the fun track. I know others will have some great suggestions as well. Oh, the patrol campout idea is a great idea too. Barry

You're right, Fair is Fair Note to National. If you haven't already read it, I love the choices you give us in socks, especially the Thorlo hiking socks. They feel like a thousand little fingers massaging my feet. OK, this is embarrassing, but last I heard, the Irving address is not the correct address to the BSA Supply division. The Supply Division is east, Tennessee or Kentucky? That was the address for which I was told to send my ideas and suggestions. Does anyone have that address close by? Alright lets huddle up and gather some ideas here. I will start with shorts. I want two pairs, one for wearing to meetings, nothing fancy. And a pair for camping, hiking and just looking cool around all the female rangers at Philmont. OK, the one suggestion is from my son. BW, any suggestions to shorts? This is your chance because supply folks might be looking. Barry

Hi All >>He seems to be saying that it is futile to complain about that here.>If somebody wants to identify an e-mail or mailing address of somebody else who is specifically interested in receiving such comments, that would be helpful.

Hi All Sounds to me like you are doing everything right. Maybe the expectations are too much for this one scout. Its easy to have average expectations that most scouts can meet. But not all scouts are average, which makes our job all the more interesting. The objective of the program is to find some kind of success experience to give him a positive stepping-stone toward his next opportunity. I had a very wise SM once tell me that instead of trying to keep frustratingly push a scout toward the same objective, ask him how he thinks he is doing and just listen. One way or another, get him to brag about himself so you can see just where he views himself. Then you may have better information to plan the next step. You would be amazed how much you can learn. Take him for a walk on that next SM Conference and give it a try. As for taking him off the responsibility, I have never had to encourage this of a scout who at least gave an effort. Now if the scout is performing badly because he doesnt want to be there, well then you have to teach him the nobility of getting out of a bad situation before he takes others with him. I would suggest waiting a year for JLTC. JLTC is an advanced training course for senior scout responsibilities like SPL, ASPL and Quartermaster. If he is struggling with the basics of PL, he will be left in the dust by the material and bored to death for a week with a bunch of strangers who dont want to be held back by his attitude. I would give him a year to mature a little more and send a scout who has earned the experience. Those are few things of the top of my head. One thing is for sure; this is a learning experience that will help you in the future. I dont know why learning has to be so painful sometimes, but it must be a God thing. One thing is for sure, you sound like the perfect person this scout needs right now. Maybe that is God thing too. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>Also the words, by the BOOK dont always mean what we think it means.