Eagledad

>>As a matter of fact, My SM was named Doug. Pure coincidence.

>>I guess you and I disagree on what an Eagle scout is.

And you don't think your troop is a Dug factory? For me, scouting is an experience to learn the habits a man needs to develop character, it seems that your troop uses the scouting experience to prove you already have character. There are no minimum or maximum requirements for Eagle are there? There is only the one Dug set. Appears that a person of lesser skills or abilities has no chance. Could a retarded person have any hope in your troop? Oh, are you guys located in Colorado? Have a great scouting day. Barry

Hi Dug >>On paper he has done what it takes to get eagle but in his heart and mind, where it matters most, hes has not.

>>They believe that the American Psychiatric Association caved to political pressure when they removed homosexuality from their list of mental disorders.

>>According to the official requirements it does not state anywhere that a scout must be punctual. That said I dont see how any scout can get eagle and not be.

>>Now, if youll do me the honor of answering my question. Are you suggesting that 14 yr olds cannot or should not be Eagles?

I trying ask what are the reasons others give you that 14 year olds should not be eagles? If it's true that a scout is less mature at 14 than he is at 17, how do you justify him worthy of the eagle at 14? You see, the justification for waiting until the scout is older is that he has more time and experience to build the character expected of Eagle scouts. Makes sense to a lot of folks, so how do you explain your program? Barry

>>Lets say a 1st class scout needs only 6 months leadership. .... After 6 months his term is over. Does he advance?

>>Hey Unc, I agree wit-cha. I've heard the negative comments about young Eagles and in my experience they've always come from adults who were Scouts and didn't make it.

>>That just results in one less Scout. I imagine the following dramatized conversations:

>>Off base because I stick up for a 14 yr old Eagle who really earned it on his own?

Well, as my grandpa use to say, better reel in the hook son, your minnows dead. I respectfully must say I think you guys are way off base. I don't know if any you guys where a Scoutmaster, but while I was a SM, I had to deal with a lot of adults who pushed for a program of older Eagles, and most of these adults were themselves Eagles. They weren't evil or trying to show up non Eagles, they were simply trying to protect the public respect of thier honorable fraternity. Go read Dugs comments on the Eagle post. As for head strong teenagers, my experience is they are no match for the head strong parent who WILL insure their son is an Eagle. Instead of turning this subject into the "revenge of the non-Eagle adults" or something silly like that, let me give you a statistic I've observed. The average age of Eagles in the troop is usually within a year of the average age of the older scouts in the troop. Not very sinister, is it? One of the biggest Troops in our district brags that it also has the most eagles every year, usually around twenty or more. The average age of their Eagles is 14. It's a goo d program ,but what is not said about this troop of 150 scouts is they loose 70 percent of their older scouts by age 15. They really don't have an older boy program as far as I'm concerned. On the other hand, another troop in the district had the largest group of older scouts in the Council. About 40 percent of the Troop was 14 or older. The average age of Eagles was mid 16's. They also had a few 14 and 15 year old Eagles to balance their late 17 year old Eagles. So what is the real issue in this discussion? The evil non-eagle scouters out to get even, or a Troop that encourages a fun program that allows the scouts to grow and mature at their rate and that is fun and rewarding all they way to age 18? You see, I don't buy any of this; boys loose interest after age 14 because of gas, girls and, well gas. OK, I liked fast cars. I dated my wife in a 73 Trans Am with Crager wheels. Anyway, I digress. The best troop program is one that pushes the boy to do his best. The problem with a troop that doesn't allow young eagles is that their close mindedness likely limits all the boys in their dreams and ambitions. It's one thing to have a program where scouts are so busy having fun in the Eight methods that they are slow to earn Eagle. It's a different matter when a troop puts a bottom age limit on their program. They may claim it's all in the name of character, but the problem is the adults define the character. So instead of bashing folks who didn't reach Eagle but give an hour of their time each week, just encourage them to support developing a program where scouts of all ages are free to have fun and be challenged to do is his best. If you do this, then those special boys will get their chance to be special. As for the dead minnow, I'm glad we didn't use Beav's stink bait. Barry

>>scout had the character and maturity of an eagle scout at the level of the eagles past, then he would get the conference.

>>Im also not saying we as Scoutmasters should be going around denying scouts BOR because of his age. Im saying the program dictates the age AND character of the Eagles. Challenge them to the fullest extent they can handle and build the best Eagles you

Ewwwww! OK, been there and done that. But I didn't enjoy it.

>>And BTW, what does unloading the gear have to do with making ethical decisions?

>>However, the lack of clear rules was a necessary pre condition for the fiasco.

Hi All Anyone who has helped at a church youth camp with youth in this age group would understand that a boy run type program would be impossible. Barry

>>Sometimes boys (or anyone) need to be told what to do. Nothing Wong with that.

Nothing meant by it, it just seems like some of the discussions in our house. OK, OK, it seems like conversations with my wife. OK, OK, I admit it, she usually starts these kinds of discussions with, "Focus Barry, Focus. Now....". Glad your not ADD.

>>And I'm not trying to make it hard! Just trying to point out there are time things need to be told 1st & explained later.

>>If the boy is in the gray area of "active", hows about the Scoutmaster meeting with him to talk about it and agree between themselves whether he has been actively serving?

Hi All >>I feel that putting the responsiblility of the actions of the each member of the patrol to the entire patrol

Hi All >>So why not take the short cut and just tell them what to do? Because it is not trustworthy, helpfull, friendly, courteous, kind, cheerful, or brave.