Eagledad

>>This may be OK for Scouts but it hardly conforms to safe activities that one would plan for Webelos. In fact, I would restrict it to Boy Scouts 13 and over (much like climbing a tall wall and such).

>>And I firmly believe that working the ticket is a Scouting career project. I don't think my ticket will ever truly be complete. I might earn the beads... but my vision will always need to be worked.

>>My only question is .... How can one go thru Wood Badge and have no Desire to work a ticket.... Hmmmmmmm...

>>But what a relief to get that ticket approved. I only had to rewrite mine once and it was all small stuff that needed to be zeroed in on or refocused.>Our Troop guide emailed all of us between sessions to get us started on our tickets too...so that was very helpful.

>>Laid back "adult approaches" usually mean troop chaos of varying degree, with weak planning and program. As well as a lack of program direction

Our Troop once hiked a mile from the parked cars to the campsite. The reason given to the scouts was so they needed to practice packing everything in a backpack. The real reason was we had the older scouts simulate a car wreck a half mile down the dirt road. They had studied how to simulate different wounds, broken legs and things like that. It went very well, but a long story short is two months later our Troop of about a dozen cars filled with about 60 scouts drove up on a real wreck within a mile of the summer camp we were attending that week. Every scout that had been on that first-aid training campout was out and ready to deal with the injured driver of the wrecked car. We had to ask them to get back in the cars because their were enough people taking car of the driver and we were afraid another car was going to hit the scouts before it could stop. I spent all week trying to live down how we trained the scouts in first-aid but wouldnt let them help a real hurt driver. The kidding was all in fun and Im still living that down. But, those guys were ready and eager to give first-aid to that hurt driver. I love this scouting stuff.

>>We have a committee meeting tomorrow and will be discussing this whole issue, together with the broader issue of respect and discipline.

>>The old schoolers felt and reciprocated our newbie enthusiam and desire to do things even better than they had ever been done before. I can't imagine a better, more enthusiastic staff than we had.

EagleinKy gives some great responses. I think you have to be proactive here at first because boys of this are not use to adults giving this type of permission, much less allowing it. We did little things at first like adults going to bed at a reasonable hour during all-night lockins. At one campout out we let the scouts go on a hike by themselves and on another we let the scouts take a five-mile bike trail without adults. I remember once when we did an indoor climbing wall activity in downtown Oklahoma City. After we were finished, the Troop planned to eat about six blocks down the street at a pizza restaurant. We had to move the cars, so I asked the SPL to lead the troop on a hike to the restaurant and meet the adults there. I was surprised not only by the scouts excitement, but by the other adults as well. In all cases I told the older youth leaders to take good care of the troop and they were responsible for the health and safety of all the scouts. Of all the activities we gave the scouts responsibilities without adults, the lock-ins where the hardest because the scouts had full run of the facilities. At first we started by one adult staying up but in a separate room. But as the adults saw how the scout handled the responsibility, we gave them more rope, so to speak. Its a growing process for the adults as much as the scouts. As you do these little things, the bigger ones will come easier. We have a BSA camp 45 minutes away and it's not to hard now to let a patrol camp by themselves if the choose because there is a Camp Ranger there as well. I'm not as active with the troop now, so I don't know if they still do that, but my point is take Ky's advice and start looking for opportunities to give the scouts some independence. Start small and allow the adults as well as the scouts to trust the idea. Develop a new relationship with the scouts that you have not experienced yet. It's wonderful and a great growing experience for the scouts. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

I used to be a Bob White, and a Good 'ol Bob White too, But now I'm finished Bob White, I don't know what to do. I'm growing old and feeble and I can Bob White no more So I am going to work my ticket if I can Back to Gilwell, happy land; I'm going to work my ticket if I can. SR-197

In general, most in our council are happy to see the restrictions. The few adults who headed the old Wood Badge were so dug in, many felt it was easier getting the Silver Beaver than an invite to staff WB. The same adults started off with the 21st Centry WB and they did a good job. But there was the expectation of the same-ol club controlling and running the course. They were basically forced to loose their grip on the course and we are getting some really great fresh new staffs now. On Another note, the group I've personally watched benefit a lot from the new WB are the Cubs. I have personally seen a couple of Packs advance their program to a level that I'm pretty sure wouldn't have happen without the course. Barry

>>As an aside, I just spent an evening reviewing PL responsibilities with newly elected PL's (at the request of the SM). I used the PL handbook as my guide.

As a SM, I would be excited if my SPL called to brief me on the DL's request. I would be even more excited if he already put the Den visit on his agenda before he called me. Barry

>>I think we should hold a special meeting and decide what to do as a committee. I'm also considering contacting the Council if still nothing is done.

>>It is impossible for most Americans to imagine that B-P's Patrol System is based on appointed leadership because we live in a country where big government limits our choice in Scouting to a single monopoly religious corporation. The moral certainty that elections are the only way to teach citizenship ("the quality of an individual's response to membership in a community") is a result of our growing up without freedom of choice. >Hopefully we will soon have an alternative to the BSA for those who choose to operate today's troop on Baden-Powell's traditional Scouting practices.

>>Another question - is it appropriate, for me as SM, to ask the scout about the board of review process, and whether he thought he was treated fairly?

>>I wish the best of luck to those of you who are fighting on the side of the right in this debate.

>>I think you'll find that North American was secure and doing just fine and dandy under the thriving Native American nations that populated the area. It only became "insecure" when the Europeans decided to invade it. Since Hitler was the leader of Germany at the time, his seeing the Jews as a threat would seem to be enough, don't you think?

>>You know, I have the liability discussion every year with our CO. ....I think it's just the nature of our overly litiguous society to be worried about every possibility of liability.

>>Therefore, they seem to think every other troop ought to do the same. I keep hoping it will change, but until it does, we make do with what we have.

An idea I've seen and like a lot is scouts making an advancement book to hold all their advancement records. It's a three ring binder with several pages of those plastic baseball card holders. The scouts are suppose to put their MB cards in the slips where baseball cards usually go along with the cards for all their ranks. This is also where they keep records of leadership and service projects. And anything else the want to keep for record. The scouts are asked to bring their advancement book to all the BORs so the adults can review their experience. Our troop didn't do this, but I like the idea because its teaches a method and habit of maintaining records that he can use for the rest of his life. He could even have a partials section of the book. Have a great scouting day. Barry

An idea I've seen and like a lot is scouts making an advancement book to hold all their advancement records. It's a three ring binder with several pages of those plastic baseball card holders. The scouts are suppose to put their MB cards in the slips where baseball cards usually go along with the cards for all their ranks. This is also where they keep records of leadership and service projects. And anything else the want to keep for record. The scouts are asked to bring their advancement book to all the BORs so the adults can review their experience. Our troop didn't do this, but I like the idea because its teaches a method and habit of maintaining records that he can use for the rest of his life. He could even have a partials section of the book. Have a great scouting day. Barry

I have a story that kind of supports Trev's point. We had a 17 year old scout from another state trasnfer to our troop with just two MBs left to get his Eagle. When he finished, he brought all his paperwork to the Troop meeting, handed it all to me and told me to call him for the BOR. I handed it back to him and told him that the scouts handle all the paperwork, turn it into the Council, set up the BOR and then call to tell me the time and place. He was in shock, but once he got his wits about him, he went to our advancement ASM and handed her the same paperwork and asked her take care of it. Of course she handed it all back to him and told him in our troop, the scouts take care of the Eagle paperwork and set up the BOR. I knew I was in trouble when he came walking in the next meeting with his dad who looked like he wanted answers. I was quick to the point that we believe Eagles should have the maturity to handle the Eagle paperwork. By the way, he was about my 20th Eagle, so we knew he could do it. Once the dad heard my explination, he agreed and wanted his son to take care of it all. It was tough for him, he told us that in his previous troop, the adults hold on to all the MB cards and advancement cards and paper work. They find the Eagle project for each scout, set the date and basically tell the scout when to show up. Once the scout completes everything for Eagle, the adults fill out the packet and send it to Council. The only thing the scout needs to know is the time and place of the BOR. It took this Eagle three weeks to fill out the paperwork, get all the signitures and set up the BOR. His dad helped him a little and we did gave him some help, but only enough to keep him moving. It was a challenge for him. My point is don't do to much for the scouts or they may not learn enough to get the job done. I had a saying for our adults as they developed their responsibilities. Try not to make the job anymore complicated than what a scout can do so the next person can take over easily, and because maybe a scout will be the next person. This doesn't have anything to do with this subject, but this scout was a hero in our town a year later for resuscitating a baby found at the bottom of a baby pool near a pool he lifeguarded. Oh how I live this scouting stuff. Have a great evening. Barry

I have no trouble with an adult reminding scouts, but I don't think it helps all that much. If the scout wants to finish a badge, he usually does. If the scout is waiting for a better time, reminders don't usually help. But if you have an adult who feels good doing this, then that is a simple way of letting them feel they are contibuting. Barry

>>Boys may be somewhat lazy. However this sounds like it's a case of adult leadership that is just a lazy.