Eagledad

>>The whole idea, which is not original with us, is to get them working as a unit and learn some basics without the pressure of the experienced boys critiquing their every move.

HI All I am the ASM for Troop Guides on our Spring course SR733. One of request by our TGs is some example of using props for TG presentations. I was not one that used props, so I dont have a lot to offer. However, I told them I knew of a great resource. So, if you can send a presentation that you gave, heard or have that used props in the Wood Badge Troop Guide presentations, I will be eternally thankful. Thanks all. Have a great scouting weekend. Barry Hey, did I see some new Bob Whites on the list?

>>I am wondering how having boy scouts in a Boy Scout Troop being in a Venture Patrol (part of a boy scout troop)would have any bearing on the Venturing Crew numbers of a District or Council, but that may be besides the point.

>>Any comment? It begs the question of how they handle a prospective merit badge counselor who is not registered with a troop.

>>"Hi, I am Proud Eagle. I have a problem with always saying, 'yes'."

I guess I saw this subject differently. I felt in the words of the writter, and still feel, there is a general attitude against helping others unless they got something from it. If I'm wrong, great, but if I could desribe the twelve points of the law in one word, it would be serving. Of course not all scouts are going to help at all projects, but none? Barry

>>If there are no volunteers in place, it's no wonder the Program Preview was a little lacking in program. "Council" has nothing at all to do with that.

>>Boy led troop or not, you need discipline from the adult leaders, otherwise the boy leaders are not only the first line, but also the final line. It won't work. If the SM is not a disciplinarian, fine. Not everybody is. No reason one ASM (we had one nicknamed "Mad Dog") can't be the disciplinarian.

>>...unless of course there is an intrinsic difference in the posession and use of toys vs something that smells strangely of education, knots and work...

>>Is our program BSA perfect HECK no! But we try. Are we delivering the scouting program...I think so, but some of the members of this forum might not. But as long as we continue to help "grow" good young men, and a stronger local scouting program, I am happy; (satisfied? no, but that's human nature), gotta go...is that the sound of the BSA Police knocking down the front door???

>>IMHO, the root of this problem is the poor way this troop implements the patrol method.

>>An Eagle project isn't a Troop project. There is no requirement for the Troop to help out.

>>I'd recommend both the SM and the committee read the Troop Committee Guidebook.

>>The most difficult thing for us right now seems to be getting the Scouts to organize their PLC and have regular meetings and program plans.

I think a positive sign of a boy run troop is that changes are slow. But change is also visibly constant. See, what makes adults so different from boys and also makes the program so valuable is personal experience. YOu have it, they don't. Boys changes are slower because they have to first learn how to create, plan, and practice the process of actions that make change. Its a no-brainer for us because we adults have been there and done that so much that we just do it. As you get more experience in this job, you will find that developing the habits required to create, plan and institute a change are far greater accomplishments than the change itself. So change has to be slow enough that the scouts can see their mistakes or accomplishments and grow from them. These skills are the foundations to future of good planning and managing. As they grow, change will speed up and eventually go faster than adults can keep up. Couple hints are dont ever except their attempts at change as perfect and finale. To continue to grow, the scouts have to continue to reach up. I remember once when our troop had got to the point that they could break camp, load the trailer and get in formation ready to leave in 45 minutes. All without adults in the area. At that point we knew we had to change something to keep them challenged. Dont make each step appear so hard that they feel frustrated even before they start. Learn how to make any task or goal seem possible, fun and worth attempting. Also, you are their cheerleader always giving them a positive view, but you are also honest and consistent and have a way of showing them where they stand. You are never negative in your evaluations because every action is lesson to improve the next action. For you, failure is a good thing. Never fear it, grow from it. You will be amazed at what boys are willing to try when they know you except failure a positive growth. We adults as parents, teachers and coaches have taught our kids to fear falure to the point they fear even trying. Trying is the hardest step and you will know it when you get them beyound that place. Your example of the paper plates tells me you know what you are doing and will be a great SM. I look forward to your future post. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>Lets not get hung up with what we miss about the good old days when we were in Wood Badge or other trainings which no are no longer being presented. The program has changed, and it will change again.

>>This may be OK for Scouts but it hardly conforms to safe activities that one would plan for Webelos. In fact, I would restrict it to Boy Scouts 13 and over (much like climbing a tall wall and such).

>>And I firmly believe that working the ticket is a Scouting career project. I don't think my ticket will ever truly be complete. I might earn the beads... but my vision will always need to be worked.

>>My only question is .... How can one go thru Wood Badge and have no Desire to work a ticket.... Hmmmmmmm...

>>But what a relief to get that ticket approved. I only had to rewrite mine once and it was all small stuff that needed to be zeroed in on or refocused.>Our Troop guide emailed all of us between sessions to get us started on our tickets too...so that was very helpful.

>>Laid back "adult approaches" usually mean troop chaos of varying degree, with weak planning and program. As well as a lack of program direction

Our Troop once hiked a mile from the parked cars to the campsite. The reason given to the scouts was so they needed to practice packing everything in a backpack. The real reason was we had the older scouts simulate a car wreck a half mile down the dirt road. They had studied how to simulate different wounds, broken legs and things like that. It went very well, but a long story short is two months later our Troop of about a dozen cars filled with about 60 scouts drove up on a real wreck within a mile of the summer camp we were attending that week. Every scout that had been on that first-aid training campout was out and ready to deal with the injured driver of the wrecked car. We had to ask them to get back in the cars because their were enough people taking car of the driver and we were afraid another car was going to hit the scouts before it could stop. I spent all week trying to live down how we trained the scouts in first-aid but wouldnt let them help a real hurt driver. The kidding was all in fun and Im still living that down. But, those guys were ready and eager to give first-aid to that hurt driver. I love this scouting stuff.

>>We have a committee meeting tomorrow and will be discussing this whole issue, together with the broader issue of respect and discipline.

>>The old schoolers felt and reciprocated our newbie enthusiam and desire to do things even better than they had ever been done before. I can't imagine a better, more enthusiastic staff than we had.

EagleinKy gives some great responses. I think you have to be proactive here at first because boys of this are not use to adults giving this type of permission, much less allowing it. We did little things at first like adults going to bed at a reasonable hour during all-night lockins. At one campout out we let the scouts go on a hike by themselves and on another we let the scouts take a five-mile bike trail without adults. I remember once when we did an indoor climbing wall activity in downtown Oklahoma City. After we were finished, the Troop planned to eat about six blocks down the street at a pizza restaurant. We had to move the cars, so I asked the SPL to lead the troop on a hike to the restaurant and meet the adults there. I was surprised not only by the scouts excitement, but by the other adults as well. In all cases I told the older youth leaders to take good care of the troop and they were responsible for the health and safety of all the scouts. Of all the activities we gave the scouts responsibilities without adults, the lock-ins where the hardest because the scouts had full run of the facilities. At first we started by one adult staying up but in a separate room. But as the adults saw how the scout handled the responsibility, we gave them more rope, so to speak. Its a growing process for the adults as much as the scouts. As you do these little things, the bigger ones will come easier. We have a BSA camp 45 minutes away and it's not to hard now to let a patrol camp by themselves if the choose because there is a Camp Ranger there as well. I'm not as active with the troop now, so I don't know if they still do that, but my point is take Ky's advice and start looking for opportunities to give the scouts some independence. Start small and allow the adults as well as the scouts to trust the idea. Develop a new relationship with the scouts that you have not experienced yet. It's wonderful and a great growing experience for the scouts. I love this scouting stuff. Barry