Eagledad

We like chicken in a dutch oven mixed with rice and chicken soup, broth or cream. But I had a friend who cooks chicken like turkey in a can. The turkey uses trash cans, but he uses gallon coffee cans for the chicken. Its easy, no mess and a lot of fun. Place foil on the ground, push a stick through the foil in the ground, set the chicken on the stick then the can over the chicken. Then put hot coals on top and around the can and stand there with a goofy smile watching. He told me it doesnt take to long either. Do a search on turkey in a can on Google and you will find a lot of information on how to do it. Just use a chicken and gallon coffee can instead. He will be the talk of the Troop for sure. Have him get a picture and maybe somehow you can get the picture up on the forum so we can all see. Barry

>>If we really want to help the Scouts we serve make ethical decisions we need to place them in situations where they have to decide what is the right thing to do.

>>If it is a boy run troop the first line of response should be coming from the PL then the SPL. If the SPL cannot get satisfaction then HE should go the the SM for assistance.

>>Scoutmaster to young Scout trying out new words: That kind of talk is offensive to a lot of people. Are you trying to portray a low-life image or yourself? Using those kinds of words shows others how limited your vocabulary is and how self-centered and offensive you can be. How about using other words to express your thoughts that are not offensive to others, get your message across, and dont diminish your good character?

I really like the sound of your Troop Anarchist. I try and teach taking away a many limitations to the scouting experience as possible. A program based on maturity and experience instead of age and rank does just that. Great program Anarchist, great adults. Barry

>>Yeh really think so, Eagledad?

>>or use the "Demonstrate Scout Spirit" as a catch-all?

I dont think there is any wording that suggest one way or the other. I do think it is bad form, but that is a different discussion on another day. As for you and this scout, he did signed the contract in good faith and there is the pesky Demonstrate Scout spirit requirement. Good luck with mom he said walking away quickly. Barry

>>I was just thinking of Beaver's tracking suggestion. It's always more fun to have a way to "tag" someone who has been found;

>>WEBELOS LEADERS MUST TAKE OUTDOOR LEADER TRAINING and use it...I get very tired of hearing "well, she or he volunteered to be the Webelos leader but she doesn't camp"...(sound the buzzer) find someone else.

Now that is thinking outside the box. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Of course we can go back and forth on just how close is not close enough, but I don't think distance is as much a factor as it is adult reactions to boy behavior. My observations are that boys will not lead as men until they are convinced the adults will not step in and take over. That kind of culture takes years to develop in a troop. I like to tell adults to practice watching from the shadows. Get close enough to observe the behavior without interrupting the behavior. The problems with many of adults getting close is some adults dont want to see the bad behavior that needs changing, or they want credit for the good behavior. Barry

>>So, my question is how do you start changing attitudes about getting people to training?

>> I'm starting to think that the boys who are or have been Boy Scouts have got used to not keeping commitments they have made because they "Got away" with it in the Troops they were in.

>>Hence... a Scribe should feed to the Advancement/Membership coordinator, but not have direct access to data entry or report output.

>>Now that I'm a tad wiser, I might help make the Troop more boy led by charging the Scribe with responsibility to send updates to me from the PLs...

Oh I understand. I didn't think you were on any kind of Ego trip; my warning is more to watch out for any kind of appearance of it. It is not hard to come off appearing that it is SueM's troop and sues vision. Our troop just had its 20th anniversary. The present SM had all the past Scoutmasters give a brief writ up about their experience in the Troop that was included in the Troop Banquet program. As he read these writ ups coming in from the SMs, he found out that basically everything I was trying to teach the adults while I was Scoutmaster was started by the SM before me. He did not realize that we were working on the same Vision and so he apologized for all the times he called the Troop, Barry's troop. Maybe the fault was mine in that I didnt talk more about the history of the vision, Aims, methods, and boy run. But I was struggling to just get the adults to understand it all while at the same time trying to make it all work. I try hard to be a humble person and was hurt when my friends whispered behind my back that this was Barrys Troop. Guardian of the Vision may be a noble task, but there is a reason why knights wore armer. Again, good luck. I really like your approach. Barry

What a wonderful post SueM. I think that is a fantastic idea and I wished I thought of something similar when I was trying to mentor the adults toward our Troop vision. Something else you can do while you are guiding them in this process is refer them to books, articles and documents that support the mission and vision you keep talking about. You add integrity to yourself and the program because they learn the vision is not all your creation, it is a vision generally held by the scouting community as a whole, at least by those who set their program to a higher standard anyway. One other thing, there is a risk of putting yourself on a pedestal when you take on the role of mentor. Remember God ask us to walk humbly beside him. There can be a fine line between mentoring and an ego trip. Watch your pace and make sure that you walk with your team, not above them. I like this idea so much SueM, Im tempted to go find a troop that needs a new SM. Thinkingthinking. Nope, the temptation went away. I guess I will just watch from the sidelines. Good luck and please let us know how it goes. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

There is usually one adult who is dominating enough that the rest of the group will just blindly follow. There is the obvious risk that the scouts will drop out instead of transferring to Troop B. In fact I found that is the likely result. I must say ma, of all the post I've read from you on this forum, this one describes your personality the best. I wish there were more like you in scouting. Barry

Dang, Eamonn beat me to it again. For me, scouting is the real world scaled down to a boys size. I always look for real-world situations to teach scouts small lessons now before they get in the real world. If we have camp rules, its for a reason, and usually safety. But, I usually went through the SPL and PLC to set the rules, not the almighty power-addictive adults. When our troop started having problems with coke cans, I first explained to the SPL why cleanliness had a lot to do with safety, animals, bugs and so on. Then we started doing surprise camp inspections where it was embarrassingly obvious to the PLC that the scouts had a problem. Before the next PLC meeting, I told the SPL that safety was heavy on my mind and I was very disappointed by what I saw, so I was going to enforce a no coke rule. Then I quietly said I would be willing to listen to compromises. As far as I know, the Troop still allows the Patrols one bottle of soda a campout. No cans and only one bottle. Same goes with sugar, if the scouts are hurting themselves because they are abusing it, then there will be a discussion between the SPL and SM. I wanted the PLC to understand the value of purposeful rules and being responsible for each other safety. Every troop has these things come up. Depending how you look at them, they are either reasons to be disapointed, or opportunities to grow. I looked for them and use them as great opportunities to teach life lessons. USe your wisdom for guiding the scouts to live clean, healthy and safe lifestyles. Try not to use your adult stature to make them bow to what appears to be your personal adult fears. Show them the facts and deal with the consequenses. Rules are a lot easier to enforce when the scouts make them and enforce them. By the way, a lot these problems went away when our troop went to a backpacking troop and the scouts learned low impact camping. Most of the older scouts teach the younger one about smellables and the risk. As for me using these as lifes lessons, I had to move on and find new ones. Scoutmasters are always being challenged. Barry

Happy Easter All Well, Eamonn beat me to it again. When our Troop got to a size where we had a big committee, I started meeting with just the CC and a couple other trusted members to hash difficult subject. We discussed the situation until we came up with a good solution to propose to the committee. The problem stated that many members only show up during committee meetings is one I've seen happen, not in scouts, but churches and schools that are doing fairly well. Folks are always looking to get in a good thing. One other thing I started doing when these kinds of things happened is required all adults to come to my Aims and Methods meeting twice a year. It give me a chance to make sure everyone understood how the program worked and how and why I do things with the scouts. I could justify everything I did with the scouts, could they? Your in a strang spot, but I would suggest the adults start backing up their talk with what the BSA says, the SM included. When that doesn't end discussions, maybe a trust third party can come in. We had a good unit commissioner that I made sure attended if we had a difficult situation. Not to lecture, but this all goes back to the importance of the unit, the whole unit, understanding the Vision or goals of the program. Usually these kinds of things happen when adults who don't understand the overall goals start disputting some of the ways the unit is working toward that vision or goal. Maybe it is time for everyone to get back to basics. I know I'rambling, so I'll let the others give input. BArry

Hi gwd, I haven't offered much because Eamonn expressed my thoughts. But I would suggest your troop consider sending other adults, expecially the CC. This is a very good course in team building, team leadership and understanding the importance of Vision. A CC will come back a much better team leader and likely increase your ability to Scoutmaster. Together you two might become a powerful force for the program and the families of your Troop. Barry

Hi All I dont think women should be the first choice for Scoutmaster. Yes, I seem to be stepping into these kinds of topics lately. But I have expressed these opinions before without getting into rough seas because the groups in the past has been adult and not reading more into it than intended. I once had a discussion, very civil, with a very close friend who was about to be a female scoutmaster. She was all caught up in the political correctness defence mode in our discussion of female scoutmasters. At one point, I told her that I agree that women can better as good if not better scoutmasters than men in every respect except one, and that is role modeling a man of character. She is pretty smart and we are good friends, she agreed with that and we never discussed the subject again. She was a good SM. Boy and girls of this age group learn most of their behavior (80 percent or more) by what they see from others, not what they are told. While we talk about it a lot, I think adults today basically ignore role modeling as the primary teaching method for developing behavior of our young adults. Even more important is to understand that boys watch men primarily for their influence as girls watch women. It is our human nature to take lesson from those we want to be like because survival is based from the skills gain in the scout ages. Boys dont look to women first to learn manly skills just like girls dont look to men because instinct drives us toward our gender behavior. Nature takes care of us in that our inner desires of what to learn and it naturally point us toward the most dominant role models of the same gender, whether we wamt to or not. It has nothing to do with who is better at what. It has everything to do with the gender of who our sons and daughters want to be like. For a Boy Scout troop, I dont think gender is all that important for the supporters of the dominant leader, the SM. The ASMs and Committee Members just need to have the character qualities that are consistent with the scoutmaster and the program they are teaching the scouts. But the dominant role model should be a male for a unit to have its greatest influence on boys developing habits that lead to character. Is that offensive to women in Boy Scouting? It should only be as offensive as it is to men in Girl Scouting. We live in a topsy-turby world where gender equality has been warped to mean no differences at all. Yet, when we get down to it, men and women are truly different and we need to use that to our advantage of doing the best we can to develop our kids into the best citizens of character and leaders of integrity, no matter what gender they are. Human nature is what it is and we need to keep that in mind. All that being said, I think there are times when it is appropriate for women to be scoutmasters. When the character of the woman far exceeds the character of avalible men, it is much better to give boys example of good character than a dominant role model who is not. A few years back our council finally kicked out a SM who should have never been allowed near boys. The units other choice was a woman willing and able, but they chose gender over character. I personally am close friends with several women who are or who were Scoutmasters and they were the best person at the time for their units. I watch the female Scoutmasters on this forum and they seem outstanding and I enjoy reading their post and giving advice. I would enjoy working with anyone of them in a heart beat. But when all things are equal, all things are not equal. If I could pick the right role model for my sons and daughters in their scout units, I will pick units where the dominant leader is the same gender because I know that is who the kids will look at the most for duplicating their behavior. They cant help it, God and human nature are in control. So to answer t158sms question, next time respond by saying The SM of a troop must be held to the highest standards of character and human behavior that a committee can find because the boys will certainly take those qualities into their adulthood. Given the choice in a perfect world, a man should be the Scoutmaster in a Boy Scout troop. But in this real world, she is probably the best person to fit those qualifications and the families of that troop are lucky to have her. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>Why 10-fold? Why not 2-fold...as in once for untrained men and once for untrained women?

>>The problem is that introduction is just that... an introduction.