Eagledad

>>Eagledad, there's a hugh difference and your moniker says it all. The vast majority of adults involved with scouting, do so because they are a parent, or were a parent of a scout.

>>Let's face it. Having an age range that run's from 10.5 to 18 years old in the same program is challenging. Most 16-18 year old boys are not likely to want hang around 11 - 13 year old boys outside of scouting.

Have you sat down and explained your fears and frustrations and then asked them for ideas? The older scouts should be the Troop leaders, but for that to happen, the adults need "give" them that power. I find many troops say they are boy run, but the adults don't really give them any room to lead or more important fail. The adults really aren't thinking boy run. There is no reason why a 16 year old can't run a troop as good as the adults, but it does take time and growth development for a program to mature to that point. The adults have to lead in letting even the young scouts take responsibility for the performance of the troop. So I suggest, sitting down with your older scouts and handing your vision to them and asking for their help. Make them part of your team of leading the troop program toward your vision instead of thinking of them as the boys that need to be led by you to the vision. Saying all that, my experience are scouts 14 and older don't do program changes well. So if they aren't use to taking the lead, you won't likely see them make a huge shift that direction. Still, the effort has to be made if for no other reason than you need to practice working with boys in leadership development and giving the boy permission to be the troop leaders, and you need the younger scouts to witness the program that you are trying to develop. It can be done, I seen many times but it takes a few years of hard work, persistance, and patience. Still, these are all character traits that God loves to watch in all of us. Your scouts are lucky to have you as a leader, mentor and role model. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>Returning to failed policies without a vision is irresponsible and should be considered neither religious nor moral

>>Once Churches get into the business of deciding policy for everyone else, then with that decision comes the inevitable responsibilities that follow, which will almost surely become "bad laws".

>>Those who are only interested in the prestige and bragging rights of beig an Eagle Scout could then leave and those who want to learn what Scouting has to teach can stick around.

To answer the question, there will likely be only little review between the WB staff and the ASM, and no review between the WB staff and your SM. You guys are on your own. It sounds as is if you dont have anyone WB trained other than this ASM, which could cause more problems if you Troop is intimidated by him. However, the WB experience does not give anyone permission to have and upperhand over scouters without the experience. We had a somewhat similar problem and in the end, it took the CC and UC telling the ASM the she was no longer welcome to the meetings to stop a year long frustration with her. She eventually left our troop for another, then another. Our Troop was her second troop. My suggestion is the sooner your adults sit down and firmly lay out the program with this adult, the less aggravation your adults and scouts will have to deal with in the near future. Scouting is a great youth program until the adults get involved. Barry

>>If their boys are not getting to Eagle with enough leadership skills then it is a leadership problem within the troop. And the SM and Committee needs to address that and not add requirements.

>How sad. I agree that when the discussion degenerates into "and I bet you support pedophilia, too. wink, wink, nudge, nudge", yes it is time for the subject to move on.

>>Not a construct of man alone. The only thing that is a construct of man (through the Bible) is that homosexuality is a sin. Or do swans, penguins, and rams commit sin?

>>So I guess these federal benefits not available in civil unions are irrelevant and unimportant:

>>also find your view of the APA interesting, especially that "A very large portion of the group are openly gay, so Im told." Well, I believe you've been told wrong. > But their recommendations (such as this) are based on research and data, not on opinions and agendas. I understand that letting scientific data override religious fanaticism is not a popular stance in these days, but I'll take data over doctrine anytime.

I believe that there was an "elitism was viewed as a general attitude in the old WB course in many Councils. I don't see how that can happen in the new course because the staffs are pushed to recruit, I think, at least 30% new staffers. There was an elitism attitude in our Council with the old course, but the new course requirements basically drove it out. If there elitism in your Council, I think it is local. Maybe you should volunteer to be a test case for your unit. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>So, in fact, does the American Psychiatric Association, so you are going to be hard pressed to define it as "abnormal" in any sense other than a Biblical one (and a Biblical interpretation considered faulty by the many Christian denominations and theologians, at that). But I guess I don't count, since I'm not a Christian, and therefore can't really be religious or moral.

This is to much. >> I for one do not seen the omnipotent creator as anything but a loving God.

I should have followed with Im sorry for your experience. In general camping should be some of the best of scouting. Im sure it will be on the next campout. Even now the adults of the cub scout group may be asking each other how to get their guys to behave more properly around other scout groups. Barry

On the third day of one of our campouts, one of the new fathers and I were taking a walk and I asked him what he thought of our troop. He said that one of the first things that really stood out to him was just how much the scout side of the camp behaved like the adults side of the camp. Our two camps were seperated by about 100 ft, so he was surprised. In general, you will find that boys, and probably girls of the scout age behave much the same as the adults they watch and follow. I wouldn't look at your experience as a reflection of all Boy Scout or Girl Scout units. Have a great week. Barry

>>If a SM is requiring this, he/she is adding to the requirement and that is a BIG no no.

>>This means that man is basically stupid as a sheep and needs religion and a clergy to save him from himself. I disagree completely with your view.

>>I do not believe your biggest stick theory. Man is capable of building a soceity without religious influence.

>>But if Joe waved the stick around in defiance after being told twice not to do it - then I would talk to the parent.

>>Epicurian poet Lucretius wrote on the issue of how easily religion led to evil in the name of god. Lucretius was branded an enemy of religion by the early Christian church.

>>A spiritual guide / religion is not necesarry to the development of a moral code in the least.

>>I am a Unitarian and the particular church I attend every Sunday has several gay couples.

>> I only point this out to pose two questions: 1) Why are right ring religious fanatics singling out loving same-sex families for scorn and ridicule?