Eagledad

Boy, there are some great replies out there. Michelle always knows how to take me back. I dont think you can know exactly what you will bring and what you will take from the experience. We are each different and gifted in our own way. The bible says we grow from our challenges and I cant think of a more fun or rewarding way to grow than from the challenges of being a Cub Master. While I was a boy scout for a long time, it really didnt prepare me for being a role model for a 120 boys. I look back on my adult scouting experience and I can honestly say that it help me grow up a lot. Scouting helped me be a better father and husband. Boys will look up to you, respect you and follow your every word simply because you have the title. That to me is scary because no adult should have that kind of power, yet most Cub Masters do. But in a sense, I found myself when I became a Cub Master because it was a time and place where everything really is all about the boys. That sounds so simple, but when real life hits you in the face, you will be confronted a lot with choices of whats easy and whats right. As I said before, all of the boys and most of the adults will automatically look up to you for all the answers just because you have the title Cub Master, but one of the first things I did right was I found a mentor to help me find my way. It was an accident, but I needed direction and God placed before me a Webelos leader with 18 years experience in Girls Scouts and Boy Scouts. She was good and she was willing to show me the way. Find your mentors so that when the hard stuff smacks you in the face, you have a compass. 95 percent of Cub Mastering is so much fun that you will fall asleep every night with a smile locked on your face. 5 percent is a growing experience that will make you a better man. Keep your eye on the ball and remember that no matter what you are doing, if it is fun, then you are likely doing it right. You are the Fun tester, it has to be Fun. Oh how I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>"One hour a week" they can maybe deal with (drop off), but then we ask for one weekend a month, summer camp, popcorn sales, COH (bring a dish!), be a leader (which means double the time or more).

My gosh, I remember so well what you are feeling. And just imagine, your program only gets better. >>I hear all the time "Johnny Scout NEEDS a POR for such and such rank" and here are these boys in front of me working hard at PORs that are not needed for rank advancement, but will surely count in their growth as Scouts.

>>Honestly Brian. I do believe that Scouting is appealing to most all the youth. But, it seems to be less appealing to their parents.

>>I'm all for boy led units, but one must remember this isn't a free-for-all organization. Certain scouting traditions are not optional.

>>Seems to me the process worked just the way it should. The BOYS discussed it and worked it out. Could it have been more efficient? Sure.

>> Barry, I like the idea of the weekly meetings, however, I think the meeting needs to have some structure more than a week in advance.

All ideas here are good. One of the issues you may be dealing with is lack of routine for the scouts at home. If you can somehow get them to dedicate an hour every week at a certain time, that may help your problem. Personally I think a month is way too long for young men with limited leadership experience to try and stay on top of task that are weeks away. They need weekly goals with weekly communication for accountibility. Our Troop solve this by replacing monthly PLC meetings with weekly 30 minute meetings. I am not suggesting that kind of change, but instead understanding how difficult it is for boys of this age to keep up with a task four weeks away. Find a way to develop a routine for them that can be checked so the scouts knows where they are at in reference to the deadline. Good luck Barry

>>It seems to me that the whole premise of this thread is that the BSA doesn't understand why it is experiencing a decline in memberhip or is doing anything about it.

Hi All I was sent a private mail that showed me I was incorrect that the Girl Scout Promise was changed recently from On my Honor I Promise to do my Best" to "On my honor I will try:". I don't remember where I learned it was a recent change, but I'm stand humbled. I made a mistake and don't want to pass that mistake to others. Hey everyone, have a wonderful weekend. It's warm and sunny here in Oklahoma and my lovely wife has got me excited to put up Christmas lights and rake leaves and ...... I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>BTW: I believe the Tiger Cubs went to the blue uniform in 2001. As I understand it, Tiger Cubs were something of an experiment at the time and treated as somewhat apart from the pack. Once accepted, they were fully integrated into the pack.

The Girls Scouts have been changing their program for over 25 years trying to stop the bleeding. Values are one of those things that took a hit. Just read the changes in their promise. It now starts out: On my honor I will "try:". I will try? That is no minor change. And, while you are comparing changing programs, go take a look at the Canadian Scouts program. It made huge changes in the 90's, some of which you have been suggesting. Now they are struggling and on the verge of folding. Oh, and go look at the Campfire Kids. They made huge changes to their program as well including some political correctness changes and the big one, excepting boys. Has that helped their declining numbers? No, not really. As I said before, declining numbers in a long standing organization are usually caused by something much deeper than uniforms. The Canadian Scouts, Girl Scouts and Campfire Kids are all programs that have made major changes in their programs and struggled ever since. And while there are many contributors to their problems, Canadian Scouts major changes werent reacting to declining numbers. They were reacting to a political environment changes in the country at the time. But they are seeing now that it is one thing to say that morality is not that important to raising moral kids, it is something different when you have to trust your kids to be alone with adults who really believe such that. This is a tough environment for youth programs who base their philosophy on values. But it gets worse when those programs choose to change into just outdoor camping programs. Say what you want, you know what you get with the BSA. The other organizations are finding that parents want a little more than just an outdoor experience for their kids. Oh, just a little side information, the creation of the Tiger program in the early 80s was a reaction to the Campfire Girls changing their program to recruit boys in the first grade. I still wonder if both programs regret those changes. If you really want to take a lead on finding why the numbers are declining Brian, then you have to ignore your own prejudice, beliefs and opinions and start looking at real facts at where the numbers make the big drops. Let me give you a place to start. Tigers, Webelos and first year Boy Scouts. If you want to use an example of how well research like the Girls Scouts just performed really works, look at our own Tiger program. The BSA have been performing the same kind of reseach for years trying to find a fix to the Tiger numbers problem. Since I have been a leader in the early 90s, the BSA has made several significant changes to the Tiger program, and the changes have not done a thing. I think I know why, but my point is I think the Girls Scouts are not going to improve their numbers because they aren't willing to except the real answers. Oh, and by the way, the Tigers changed their uniform last year. We have to wait to see the data, but do you think that will make the difference? Personally I dont think so. The real question is how will it affect the Webelos program? You started off on the wrong foot with this group Brian because there are some folks here that know what they are talking about. When you want to get serious about stopping the declining numbers, some folks will be glad to help. Barry

>>My Cubmaster refuses to go over 1 hour. Is this normal? I seem to remember them being longer (and a lot more fun) when I was a kid.

EagleInKy and GE gave good responses. To me there are three parts to the question. The first is the intent of running for the position with wrong reasons. The scout is not being trustworthy, loyal or helpful; in fact he is being just plain deceitful. This is not a leadership skills issue, its all about character and nothing drives me harder than a boy in real need of new habits of character. The second part is the leadership skills. I make no bones that leadership is an opportunity to grow and learn skills that will help the scout for the rest of his life. I have no trouble with a scout's struggles and failures when he gives his all to succeed. Infact a scout who is truly trying will never find me angry or disappointed, they usually find me positive and excited that they are trying. I love to be a cheerleader. So, I dont want a scout who doesnt want to learn from the experience and only takes the position away from someone who does truly does want to learn. Leadership in our troop is all about learning. This SPL either will take that seriously and learn a lot, or he will want to consider a change. And the third part is the scouts who elected him. For whatever reason the scouts elected this young man, they now need to live with it long enough to learn just how bad leadership can affect their personal experience. There will be no adults taking over for this SPL. I start out guiding the SPL the same way I do all the SPLs. I teach them how to write and use the agenda and send him out. Our Troops PLC meetings are weekly so that I can coach and guide more often to give them more opportunity to improve their previous performances. I will watch the first few meetings and meet the SPL after to listen to his critique of himself. I will add my part if any is needed. Typically as the SPL gets his feet under him, I attend less of the meetings until eventually I dont even show up. But if this SPL is how Longhaul describes, he will find the SM hanging closer and closer. If he chooses to ignore my coaching and the program suffers, the SPL and I will spend more time discussing skills and ideals intended to help him improve. In fact he will find us together talking an hour before the PLC and Troop meeting, and an hour after. He will also get calls to check up on his planning and agenda items. The SPL will find the SM near him all the time. Something that is unusual for our troop. I smile and keep my voice normal and I dont show impatience. On the contrary, I enjoy the idea of helping boys develop new habits that lead toward positive character. Especially a kid whos intent was to use the position for his own self-serving intention over the rest of the troop. He will get a lot of advice and coaching on service to others and how the power leadership can be used for good, or bad. If he continues along his deceitful track, he will be guided on choices and the right thing to do. He will find the SM next to him all the time. At the same time, I will coach the PLC on how to handle responsibility when the leader doesnt perform as expected, or more important, as needed. The will learn how to initiate taking charge where the SPL is lacking. They will be guided on how to work with the SPL to get him up to speed. The PLC will not lack in growing and learning new skills. I also usually bring the parents in as well. Typically I get very close to my SPLs parents because we work as a team. Sometimes the parents dont want to be that involved and that is fine, but they will hear how their son performs. The worst parents are the ones who pressure their son to do this in the first place. My experience is they will coach their son to do just enough to make me happy. They are not concerned about their sons character or leadership skills, just the title of SPL. This is how I have worked with these types of Scouts. I will say that scouts learn pretty quickly what they can get away with in our troop. So getting such an SPL is very rare. Usually our SPLs are the cream of the crop. As for the For those who believe boy led means boy led comment, I understand that there are many different feelings of what boy run should really be. But feel there is a little sarcasm from that statement. It is my opinion boy run is the freewill that adults willingly give the scouts. To me boy run is a description of the troop adults, not the scouts. How much freewill we give the scouts is a matter of perspective and it is different for each adult because we all have different levels of fear and trust. Fear pretty much drives most of what we let the boys do in scouting. And, boy run doesnt ignore the Eight Methods, one of which is Adult Association. This needs to be a different subject, but I think most folks will likely find the hardest working adult scout leaders in the most boy run troops. Sorry this was long, but I enjoy working in these kinds of situations. Thanks for allowing me give one example of how to handle this hypothetical situation. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Hi There is nothing that really says that the SM conference requirement is intended to be the last stop before the BOR and I think your situation is the reason why. If it was written that way and a mistake was made, then there would be additional administrative hoops to jump through to get everything straight again. As it is now, nothing is required except to wait for the scout to complete the time in service requirement. Barry

>>the Scoutmaster does not get veto power over nominations or the boy's choice for SPL

Hi All My Webelos den meeting agenda started with the Webelos running an opening ceremony (about five minutes, then 15 minutes talking about assorted subjects, two skits for the next pack meeting being one. WE then spent about 40 minutes working on two activity badges followed by a 20 minute game that usually involved running. We finished the meeting with a closing ceremony, which included awards presentation of completed activity badges. The way I was able to do this agenda was by going to two 90 minute meetings a month. I had sixteen Webelos, so I divided them up into two groups. Each group took responsibility for a skit and had to be ready for it by the pack meeting. Most of the time the scouts showed up 30 minutes before the meeting to practice the skit. Once they got use to the routine, they usually had the skit down in 15 minutes of practice. Same for the activity badges. Since I had two groups, they would work on one badge for 20 minutes then switch with the other group. Even though I was required to split my group, I think you can do this with a smaller group as well. I let my activity badges set the theme of the meetings, but I also tried to get the required badges out of the way as fast as I could. I asked my parents to parents plan and run the badges. They were given two meetings to complete as many requirements as possible (One month). If they could complete the badge, we came back to it later. I planned my meetings all the way through the year so I could assign the parents at the beginning of the year. I must say that my program was a struggle until I lengthen the meetings to 90 minutes. Then it got real easy even with the taking the third week off, which I enjoyed as well. As for the CM, I suggest that you ask him what he requires of the Webelos at his pack meeting. The Den meeting is really the Den leaders business until it becomes obvious that the meetings are not meeting the expectations of the BSA. Until then the SM really shouldnt micro manage the den. Also, I found it easier to keep track of the scouts completed requirements by putting the requirements and scouts on a spreadsheet and marking off each requirement as they completed them. My assistant would sign the books during the meeting. But the spreadsheet made it a lot easier to see at a glance where each scout stood without thumbing through the books. I hope this is not too confusing. Barry

As I got better at this scouting stuff, I became offended with the idea of adult authority. I think it gets in the way of pure scouting. After every new election of youth officers, I told the PLC that if I could not support or give logical reason for anything we did in the troop, they could throw it out. I did that so that I didn't make scouts do anything just because I was the adult and had the authority. It is one thing to ask boys to do something because you know that it can better their future. It is something different to tell scouts to do it because that is what you want and you have the authority. My biggest test was the uniform. I like to teach adults that rebellous scouts are just expressing in their own way that they don't understand because they haven't learned yet better ways to ask and learn. When this happens, you the adult need to either figure out a different way to explain the subject so that they do understand, or back off and rethink the whole thing. Again I use the uniform as an example. I find that the uniform is the hardest method for adults to apply without forcing their authority. It is a real test of how to use auhtority in a boy run troop. Great Question. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Yes, I commented on another thread that the scouts in our area would relate to that video. Barry

>>For me it is the direction scouting needs to go. Brian

>>I've had luck just saying that "The Go-See-It for this month will be ________ to fulfill a Tiger rank requirement. I need someone to help out by contacting ____________ to set it up."

>>For some parents, just registering with the BSA is traumatic enough. You have to be flexible or you could lose them and their boys for good. Give these parents "little" jobs, but no more.

>>So I too cheer those that become great citizens without choosing to complete requirements for Eagle.

While reading the responses in this thread, I enjoyed thinking back in my days of watching M80s and Cherry Bombs blow up milk carton and gallon coffee cans to smithereens. To be fair, we were only trying to send the coffee can to the moon. Who knows, maybe the desire to build a can strong enough to withstand the thrust generated for a Cherry Bomb (1/4th stick dynamite) is what drove me to be an Aeronautical Engineer. Every December dad drove our family to Grandmas in Laurel Mississippi for Christmas. At that time, fireworks was a common way of celebrating Christmas and my cousin always took the time to show me the fine art of using fireworks in ways not advertised at the fireworks stand. One year just when we thought we had pushed our experiments to new frontiers, my dad presented us with a one inch pipe about 18 inches long that he and uncle Lee turned into a marble cannon sometime in the early 1940s. We fired a dozen marbles down the ally behind grandmas house that day. Never saw them land, never saw them again for that matter. At the time the cannon was made, my uncle was an Eagle. My dad was a 15 year old SM because that was during WWII when few adults were around to be a SM. I actually thought the Polish cannon was real. I guess Im a bit naive, but I have personally shot potato and tennis ball cannons, so a Polish cannon seemed reasonable to me. I was waiting to read what it was and kind of thought it might fit the description of what dad made back in his teenage days. I guess sometimes we let our emotions get the best of us. Barry

I have a friend who over the past 40 years as been a Council Commissioner, District Commissioner and Unit Commissioner. He started each of his UC's with a successful unit and a not so successful unit so that the UC could learn from the differences between the two programs. He did not give them units in different sections for the reasons already being mentioned here. However, my own district will give you what you are willing to take because they dont know how to recruit and dont have near enough UCs. If a new inexperienced UC wanted several units in different sections, they would get them. Barry