Eagledad

>>Articles like this are nothin' more than policy "spin" by people who stand to benefit personally or professionally from a particular public policy position.

New findings indicate today's greenhouse gas levels not unusual By Dr. Tim Ball and Tom Harris http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/global-warming051407.htm Hi all, I found this quite by accident while scanning todays news. It is from the Canadian Free Press. At the very least the article is one more contradiction to confuse folks about the new Global Warming crisis. I gave the source so anyone can read it, but one quote goes like this: Clearly, the federal government must immediately convene open, unbiased hearings into the science of climate change, something that has never happened in Canada. If the science driving CO2 reduction plans is as 'solid' as environmental lobbyists would have us believe, then they have nothing to fear. But, if it is wrong, as increasingly it appears to be, then we stand on the verge of the largest, and most costly, science scandal in Canadian history. As I said, it is just another source among the many articles that contradict many articles, but it kind leads to the real problem. I was reading Packsaddles post, which I thought was pretty good. One part of his post hits this whole thread on the head: >> Brent, if you have seen enough evidence to firm up your opinion, that is your choice. I hope you are susceptible to reason if further evidence comes to light that might cause you to reconsider.

>>Finally, be sure you share enough with the DE so that a determination can be made about whether the man should remain registered with the BSA (to potentially serve as a leader in another unit).>How do you two handle the 18 y/o's that want to stay in your respective troops? Do you just assign them as ASM's? Do you place them under the wing of an experienced ASM for a certain time period? Just curious how you do it?

Hi Oak Tree We were at exactly where you are at, we started with 15 scouts and got 50 new scout in two years. We looked at all the options you mentioned. We visited and interviewed several troops to find the best way to limit the troop and I wrote an essay on our experience a few years ago. After several years of watching units from the District and Council level, I feel this essay is pretty accurate. By the way, when I left as the SM about five years after I wrote this essay, our troop had 90 scouts. We were very boy run and 40% of our scouts were 14 or older. Barry Troop size and Troop program (Facts & Myths) by Barry Runnels Everyone has a preference and can list the pros or cons of each unit with regard to size and program. There are some very fine units with all numbers of Scouts. Usually what makes a unit great is a group of adults who focus on what the Scouts get out of the program, not what the adults get. Each one of us has had our own experiences through life, our own way of doing things and our own way of handling situations. We are called Scoutmasters because we supposedly have mastered our life from our experiences. Scouting allows us to hand down what we have learned. How the dominating adults hand those experiences down to the Scouts is going to determine what kind of program your troop will have. Your troop will form itself to a size that fits the program. If you work to be a true boy run troop, you will probably never get larger than 50 ACTIVE Scouts. The SPL in a truly boy run troop can only handle a maximum of 50 Scouts. Really 40 is better. You can rearrange, move around and split groups all you want, but in the end, if the SPL is in charge, 50 Scouts is the limit. Anything more, requires adults to get more evolved with the day-to-day program. If your goals are a large troop and boy run is not a primary concern, then your troop will handle that large number. Whether they know it or not, and most dont, its usually the Scoutmaster who determines the size of the troop by how he guides the program. If a Scoutmaster works through the Patrol Leader Council, the troop will grow to a size the PLC can manage. Increases beyond that will cause the program to suffer and the Scouts and parents will leave for a better program until the numbers fall to a size the PLC can manage. If the SM works the program though PLC and ASMs, it will grow to that size. If the SM works through the adults, the unit may grow very large. The adults in a troop need to agree on what they want the Scouts to get from the program. If its rank and advancement, then it can be more of an adult-run program that will handle lots of boys. If leadership and behavior are more of a priority, then a troop may have to slim down a bit to allow the Scouts to learn from their actions. A few myths: There is a myth that you should feel obligated to accept large numbers of incoming scouts so they can enjoy your wonderful program. The truth is, if the troop size greatly changes, your program will change. Logistics, equipment, number of Patrols and adult leaders will change just to keep up. If the adults and scouts are not ready, you will loose about 25% of your Scouts while the troop leadership scurries to catch up. Your wonderful program may no longer be so wonderful. If you do expect a large influx of new scouts, your leadership should plan now so you dont get lost when they do come. And prepare for a different program that fits your new size. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. Another myth is that you have to keep your numbers low to stay boy-run. Well, yes and no. As I write this, we are the third largest troop (in our district) hovering around 80 Scouts. And we brag to be very boy run, maybe the most boy run troop in the district. But at any given time through of the year, we average about 40 to 50 Scouts at meetings. Sports and other outside activities keep us to that number. So the program is still manageable for the SPL and we maintain a very active boy run program. Another myth is that that splitting your program solves the big troop problems. Not really. We looked at this several different ways and talked to a lot of units who did it. Every unit said that it doubles the logistical problems of the troop for the leadership. The split didnt really solve many of the big troop problems except space. In fact, every leader said the program still felt big and the problems tripled because the communication and management became more critical. Even though each group was smaller, they were still run like big groups, so they still lost the Scouts and adults who wanted a small group program. Units that liked and worked well with the split program had more than 200 Scouts. Thats a lot of scouts. You might go this way, but dont expect to solve your big group problems. Splitting the troop just allowed the big troops to get bigger. If you split, I suggest splitting into a whole new troop with a different charter. STILL difficult, but it forces each adult to focus on one troop and one program. Yet another myth is that you have to take every Scout that comes to your troop. You dont. You dont have to do anything. We have never turned a Scout away from our troop, but I always give visitors names of 4 or 5 other troops in town. I know how important it is to find a troop that fits the family. Those troops are grateful for the help (and isnt being helpful the Scouting way)? Some troops control size by high initial dues. Some control it by only inviting a small limited number of Webelos Dens. Troops that I have seen turn away Scouts up front usually regret it later by the reputation developed from that method. What I am trying to say is you dont really have much control on numbers. You can try, but its difficult. You do have a lot of control on your program. And your program will probably control your numbers. The adults need to sit down and discuss goals, and your experience in the program that will lead you to those goals, (as will training and help from other sources). You need to decide what you want the boys to get out of their experience in your troop and build your plan of action to reach those goals. This may all seem vague and difficult, but if you dont do it, you will regret it later when youre r standing there watching 100 screaming scouts running around waiting for the program to kick in. Gather your adults and ask them to speak openly about where they want the program to go. Agree on a plan and explain that plan to everyone in your troop and visitors to your troop. Then drive the program, with your PLC, to that plan. Eventually your numbers will fit into the program that comes from your plan. Of course the plan will change on the way to your goals, but that is a given. Just recognize the need for a plan and to have everyone working towards it. Ask for prayers, they help a lot. Ask for help from Scouts_L, there is a lot of experience there.

>>So if da structure is gettin' in the way, why don't yeh change it? Forget havin' separate committees for this and that. Have just one "Unit Support" committee and then break out into subcommittees as needed. That way commishes can talk to membership and to program, etc. So many times I see council's and districts locked into a dysfunctional structure because they think they "have to do it that way." Bah. Service first. Everything else is negotiable.

>>Does your Council have an "SPL2B" program?

We pay our guys to go, but our troop invest a lot in leadership development. We also pay for the summer camp fees of our SPL because he works so hard that many times he doesnt have time for a MB class. Now I personally dont think the scouts come back all that different from NYLT, but the course is a tremendous confidence builder for taking on more responsibilities in your troop, which is usually a boys biggest hurdle. Also, our guys plan, train and lead our Troop JLTs, so confidence and maturity are important. To me, the real BIG benefit a troop gains from a scout going to NYLT is he will qualify to get on NYLT staff. As a staff member, your scout will learn and practice the skills to a fine art. Not only that, he will learn the discipline and skills of developing a leadership team. Those are the guys you want coming back to build your program and PLC teams. They will be so good at it that they would good teachers for the adults if theyre willing. For what ever reason, NYLT trained scouts carry themselves a little different. These are the Scouts the young guys really look up to. I know from experience that the main problem with adults is they dont see what the boys get from the program. It is hard to invest that kind of money into something you cant touch or see. I might suggest calling the NYLT course leader and ask him/her to come speak to your committee. Dont pull them into the discussion of money, just ask them to explain the value of the course and what it will do for your scouts and your troop program. That would go a long way in helping the adults buy into the investment. One other thing, we read a lot about how to hang on to older scouts. Typically scouts who attend outside leadership courses like OA and NYLT stay in the program. It is an investment into all our futures. Good question. Barry

>>The important part, IMO,

>>The people who spoke up at the committee meeting actually surprised me because one is a former SM who is usually the one pushing "boy led" and the other is a longtime ASM and probably a future SM (both are on the committee for now). Upon reflection my best guess is that they spoke up when and where they did because the SM did not. Maybe the comments they made were really more a nudge/push for the SM to do a better job of communicating with his SPL.

>>The committee members seem like the only ones who overstepped bounds here, stepping on the SM's and SPL's turf. Chances are the boys know more about boys' backgrounds and what's really necessary for "other patrols' needs" than committee members do. If there's some feedback or additional information to give, it's da SM's role, not the committee's.

>>The inescapable fact is that the overwhelming majority of such climate scientists believe that climate change is a serious problem and that human activities are a major cause. There are a few scientists who disagree, as there generally are with any broad scientific consensus.

>>I guess in your troop if the QM can't be there, the whole troop doesn't go because they don't have a key for the trailer.

>>The SPL will be discussing a change of QM POR this Tuesday with the SM.

I had the same response to that subject. Our troop has two historians because they do a troop newsletter among other duties, and our two scribes update the Web Site, among other duties. I will say that these are challenging responsibilities and require well trained adult counselors. We modified the responsibilities of those jobs and other so that the experience had value toward developing growth in behavior and leadership. If the adults don't see that happening, something should be changed. We talk a lot about SM assigned PORs, but I think this is misused as well. I don't think asking a scout to plan, lead and run a COH has to be equivalent to the responsibilities of a PL, it just needs to be something challenging for the scout to experience in his next step toward growth. If I ask a younger scout to lead a game, it likely is because I see that he needs that responsibility to develop confidence. Our older scouts spend a month training a staff and getting ready for JLT. I don't think any JLT staff scout has asked for credit for the job. Maybe some day. Is the focus a little misdirected here? Shouldn't a job or POS be looked at as helping a boy continue to grow? The rest will follow, or at least it has in my observations. Barry

>>How would the boy know that the troop adults expect him to arrange for a BOR? The boy's Handbook tells him "your Scoutmaster will arrange a board of review for you" (for Tenderfoot) and is silent for the other ranks.

>>The Eagle COH is the Scouts responsibility; just like you stated. After he his EBOR, tell him to give you a call and let you know when the date for his EBOR is determined.

>>While advancement is the measuring stick many use for the program, I see it as just one of the many tools we have to help develop young men.

>>Our troop is taking a high-adventure trek to the Pecos Wilderness in the Sangre-de-Cristo Mountains this summer. We are staying a day in Santa Fe to do some sight seeing and get acclimated to some higher elevations before we take off on our trek.

>>Despite claims to the contrary, we really DON'T embrace diversity, do we?

>>1) Has anyone ever done/seen the NYLT split up over several weekends. That seems like a good way to schedule it for maximum participants, and around adult and youth staff work schedules. But, to me, I think splitting the course up would be a net negative.

Yes and we moved it. You would be surprised how few weeks there are to choose from. Wood Badge itself takes up six of the weeks in our council. The best weeks to get camp are in the middle of summer after summer camp. But, those weeks are taken up by family vacations and high adventure. So we got creative. We started experimenting different weeks. We tried Fall Break, Christmas Break and Spring Break. When I left the program we were doing Fall Break and Spring break. But Christmas had a very good turn out as well. The thing about Fall and Spring breaks is they are close to the Wood Badge courses. So instead of us spending a few days opening and closing camp (Christmas Break) we worked close to the Wood Badge courses to save on everyones time. All Councils are different, but the Council staff needs to be really open minded and look for school out weeks that don't conflict with other programs that pull older scouts. Watch out for OA events too. Our best source of youth staff came from OA, so they helped us out a lot with equipment and adult volunteers. But there a couple of OA events that can conflict as well. Like I said, there aren't that many choices. But I certainly wouldn't do it on a weekend where older scouts have to attend another event. Barry

>>The discussion died down with the suggestion that maybe we try to insitute your idea with the younger Scout's, that the troop will pay for tham to go to NYLT once they turn 13y/o, and that it would be a prerequesite for ASPL and SPL. If they opt not to go, they can be a Guide, Scribe etc., but not SPL or ASPL.>> Hi All This is a pretty interesting discussion. I spent several years involved with troop and council JLT, which at the time was called JLTC in our Council. I also communicated with a lot of Councils comparing their JLT programs and performances. Many if not most councils customized there courses as well. The answer to the question of how to fill the courses is first find out why the troops are not going to the course, than fix it. About 10 years ago our Council did a pretty in dept polling of scouts and adult troop leaders to on our JLTC program hoping to understand why we were struggling to fill one course a year. We found that most scouts come back pretty hyped up from the course. But interestingly the main complaint about the course was basically the same from the scouts and adults. They didnt see any noticeable difference in Troop program and performance after the scouts came back from the course. The scouts complained the adults wouldnt let them try the new skills, and the adults were frustrated the scouts werent using any new skills. Further study found that the problem was the adults didnt really know what the scouts learned; therefore they didnt know how to help the scouts take advantage and use the new skills. The scouts on the other hand didnt really make an effort to use their new skills because they didnt really know how to implement new habits and skills into the existing environment, which was much different from simulated program in the course. Being a SM and the Council JLT Chairman, I saw both sides of the problem. The scouts didnt know how to use their new skills in an old existing program, and the adults didnt know what the new skills were to help them implement them into the old program. Example; During our JLTC course, each scout will have written least 20 meeting agendas. The problem is we found that 90% of troop adult leaders dont teach meeting agendas at all. As for the age thing. JLTC was design to develop skills for senior leaders, generally 14 and older. I assume NYLT is the same. We did allow exceptions because some troops are young and dont have older scouts, but it was rare that a 13 year old got much out of the course because the subject was over their head. We had some homesickness, but our main problem was boredom. Now I know of some councils dummy down their material so that they can fill courses with younger scouts, but that usually reduces the course to a Patrol Leader development level JLT. That is fine I guess, but that is really the SMs job, not the council. Looking back, my guess cost is a huge issue. Of course many troops can help the scouts out, but there are a lot of poor small troops out there. These troops spend all year just trying to get to summer camp, NYLT is just simply out of the question. This was a huge issue for use back when JLTC was just around $100. The problem with filling courses comes down to course reputation. We made a lot of changes to our JLTC to change the perception and it worked. We were filling two courses a year looking at a third. But I would say it takes at least three years to change a perception, so it is likely your course will struggle to fill for awhile even after you attempt to fix the problems. Barry

>>That's fine - they should see what a PL is supposed to do, except for attending PLC's.

>>Our local camp has done away with the axe and has restricted wood cutting to just buck saws. Full handled shovels are also included.

>>Ok, there I have said it. I am crossing the Atlantic in a canoe.