Eagledad

You had me going there for a moment. Then I remembered that National only makes program changes that serve the folks at National. I’ve been wondering lately what the Boy Scout program has that would attract girls over the Girl Scouts program. Then I ran into a BSA girls troop fundraising at a local store yesterday. These girls were in full uniforms with every patch they could wear appropriate for their rank. They looked really sharp and any Scoutmaster would be proud. I think these girls are attracted to the legacy Boy Scout program. Sadly, National is going to shuck that away from them like they have been doing to the rest of us for years. Barry

I’ve been preaching for a more simple cub program for many years because it pulls down the membership for all the other programs. But, I fear it’s the troop program that will be changed, which doesn’t need change. National has rarely shown to make changes to better the program toward a better program. Barry

Thanks. Barry

Scouting is local. While scouting is marketed as outdoor, there is room for local leaders to push the gray area that fits more to their level of comfort. A lot of adults are living their scouting dream through their youths’ program and don’t even realize it. Even Woodbadge can suffer from different interpretations of the syllabus. Barry

Everyone here uses the normalcy of family, schools and churches as a justification to normalize scouting. Scouting was always intended to be different to give ethical and moral growth a chance for males. Nobody today wants to admit males and females are different and different programs give both genders the chance for the best growth. A scout is brave is the first trait to go in this culture. Barry

“Boy” Scouting has been a program of ethical and moral growth without the distraction of normal that compromises the growth that eventually contributes to the greater good of normal. Ethical and moral growth are a worthy sacrifice in today’s self centered search for importance. Barry

https://www.foxnews.com/us/boy-scouts-america-making-big-change-more-inclusive

Take out point 5, everything else applies when drivers are on their own. Before cell phones, we moved a whole troop of 120 six-hundred-miles and ended up at the destination with in 15-20 minutes. So it works well. Before cell phones, we used radios that had a range of 50 miles. Our trailer broke an axle in Colorado and all other cars knew within minutes. A plan was set to which car would help and which ones would continue to next stop at a safe place for a bunch of scouts. Much better than stopping a whole caravan of cars along side a busy two lane highway. Barry

Should still be there. National added it when they found scout car accidents occur more often in convoys. Following drivers pay less attention when the aren't navigating and often break traffic laws trying to catch up to the lead car. A lot of motorcyclist have accidents in group rides for the same reason. We found that all the cars typically show up to the destination within 15 minutes even after a 600 mile day. Of course the the SM always showed up first. Barry

As a SM, this is the approach took with politics as well as religion. Barry

Hmm, I know exactly how you feel. Barry

She thinks that way because she didn’t have a scouting experience as a youth. Patrol method is only limited by adults fears. I used to teach a course teaching adults how to push their fears boundaries out. The adults need to ask themselves what it would take to let the patrols to cook on their own. I’m not a fan of no cooking, but some healthy easy to fix meals might help the adults grow in the program. Discussion? Barry

I agree, but I have never met a Scoutmaster who didn't think their troop was scout-led. I will come up with some things that made me feel really good about our program, but what makes scouting so great is that the rewards change as the program changes and matures. Look forward to those wonderful unexpected rewards too. Many are coming your way. Barry

This, by far is the most hostile post I ever read on this forum. Can you imagine how many of our kids would get education and skills instruction if every teacher, little league coach, dance instructor, and so forth who doesn't agree with all the policies of the organization stayed away from kids? There would be nobody. This forum has had hundreds of these kinds of discussions for 30 years, but there is a difference between posters today and the earlier years; Posters today don't want to learn why folks think differently, and they want to censor any speech they disagree with. Ironically, free speech is how bad policies that can be dangerous to youth and adults are exposed. We live in a dangerous time. Barry

Whatever each one of us wants to think we are, there does seem to be a predictable tendency to diverge away from the center to one side or the other; instead of toward the center where we each seem to think we should be. Barry

It depends on the interpretation of threats. I believe that bringing in girls has created, well lets just say a less welcoming environment for boys. There have been several discussions over the years of how adults are pushing the girls program and performance over the boy's program. And there was even mention of how the differences between girls and boys put the boys at a disadvantage in this program. I stand for the fairness and safety of all the scouts. But, in these discussions, it is fairness and safety of the boys' side of scouts. I understand that emotions are powerful for forcing change, but I'll be here to keep reminding the list of the negative effects of change just like I have been doing for the last 25 years. Barry

There is a huge difference between not agreeing with a policy and passionately working with youth. I'm a firm believer that the Tiger Cub program is the cause of thousands of families dropping out of the BSA, but I found a way to raise our numbers. I believe education about the struggles from policy changes is healthy because it provides dialogue for ideas to approach and improve or fix the issue. Sad that so many folks feel that censure is the only way to stop discussions they don't like. Barry

Or Explorers. Barry

I like what you're saying, but your posts don't reflect more than two sides. In the first discussion we had about mixed-gender scouts, you, in so many words, told me to butt out. I didn't and don't take offense, your style of moderate "my way or the highway" is common these days. But, how can you encourage a less pick a side discussion if you intimidate the discussion to go one sided? Is it so hard to not die on the hill of your opinion? That is why I keep bringing up using the Scout law for Civil discussions. The Scout Law is common to all of us, so we don't have to lecture or dictate our own set of rules on the group. But, allowing other opinions without intimidating our own opinion on the group takes practice. Especially if that style of discussion is part of our character. This forum will be a perfect place for you to practice listening without leveraging your opinion of how the discussion should be moderated because you are about to become a leader in the troop program. As you know, we are not supposed to shape the youth into the scouts we think they should be, we mentor them so they willingly shape themselves into young adults of character and integrity. We do that by giving them respecting them as equal adults and giving them opportunities and space to think about how their decisions affect those around them. We want them to reflect on their actions of ethics and morality through the common filter of the Oath and Law. Youth learn 90% of their behavior by watching others who influence them. Actions, not words. They basically shut out long judging lectures and diatribes. Youth of the troop age are doubly hard because they resent being talked down to when they are told THEY are supposed to learn from their actions. They open up to more curious non-judgemental single-sentence questions from trusted mentors. Even more powerful is showing trust by walking away after presenting the question to allow time and space for reflecting on the question. Our human pride often puts up an instant defense mode because wrong actions hurt. Walking away saves them from putting up shields and instead lets them ponder on the questions. We can't change a young adult to be a better ethical and moral decision-maker, they have to decide that on their own. A good day is when the scout comes back for further discussion on the question. Future discussions in the forum are going to be tough because the progressive culture is pushing harder to neutralize judgment of moral decisions. I once heard a gay activist explain they are pushing god out of the culture so homosexuality can be considered normal. In other words, taking god out of the discussion takes the guilt out of the behavior. You have already commented on allowing atheists in the program. That is next. BUT, KNOW THIS, when the atheists move in, god in the Law and oath will be pushed out. God and immoral guilt don't mix. God is the focal point of morality and ethics. A scout leader never has to take responsibility for defining morality because that burden is on god. Once god is gone, moral and ethical behavior will depend on the unit's leadership, not the scout's personal moral guidance, which is usually their parents. So, these discussions will get more complex and two-sided. This is going to be good practice to add a personal opinion without trying to force the direction of the discussion. This is also a good place to practice those one-sentence questions and step back to allow responses. I think you will be amazed at how intellectual the discussions can go when posts take on an educational tone instead of accusatory or judgmental. Barry

My apologies for not understanding This is a challenging time for young people. Politics and cultural extremisms are driving everyone to pick a side with no gray area. Life was simple when I was a scout, it was a little more complicated when I was leader, but nothing like now. My high school teacher son is very frustrated. He had a student commit suicide a few months ago. One of three in the past few years. The problem from his perspective is social media. Kids today get all their identity from social media and that puts them in a very volatile place to find themselves. One day social media approves of them, the next day they are the scourge of the earth. Those with weak family support get lost and search for acceptance in all the wrong places. He said at the moment they flock to be trans because the politics of it is very powerful and makes them feel powerful. But, that support is caustic, and dangerous and leads these vulnerable young people farther into a dark life they find hard to get out of. Schools don't help much because they are instructed to support these youths feelings without real counseling balance, and even more, not tell parents. So, while the schools think they are protecting these youth, they are actually encouraging them to venture more into extreme acceptance from an extreme social culture. My son is even doing talks at area schools to help them understand the importance of parents. Scouting is a great program for finding healthy acceptance. I had several awkward scouts searching for a safe acceptance where they could feel good about themselves. Ironically, many are looking for a disciplined lifestyle because boundaries feel safe. I remember the mom of one of these awkward scouts telling me the troop was her son's only relief from feeling out of place. The troop was the one place he liked himself. I try to pass my experiences to the next leaders, but there is a lot of resistance today from adults who are more protective of the political culture than they are of providing the youth with a program where the scouts develop moral and ethical decision-making through discovery in the scouting culture. Oh, many adults think that scouting is a good experience no matter how it is presented. But, there is no doubt in my mind that Scouts in my more traditional troop will be far ahead of any scout in a politically correct driven troop simply because progressive-minded adults will not let the scouts think differently than themselves to protect their ideology. The Scout Law and Oath don't differentiate between sexes, colors, cultures, and lifestyles. The values of the oath and law are equal for everyone. But, a person doesn't learn that from lectures and intimidation, values of respect and fairness have to be accepted and practiced to become a part of one's character. The problem is creating or allowing a unit culture that encourages that type of discovery and growth. That is why I will speak up. Barry

I'm curious, what is the latest traditional male gender role that is considered a threat? I'm one of those people who believe mixing females into the patrols puts the males at a disadvantage for personal growth, and possibly some harm by the adults. So, I struggle with the idea that girls are the ones at risk. I've seen way too much overhype on this forum to not be concerned for the boys. One poster was bragging just the other day about all the girl cubs on the podium after the derby races. What was the point of the statement? Were boys also on the podium? We don't know, but we can imagine that adults were saying plenty of the same type things in front of the boys. Normal adults doing normal adult things I guess. But that is an example of what boys will have to endure in mixed patrols. Barry

How can a troop over ride the camp director? Barry

I guess it depends on what side of the fence one stands on where the haters are. Just look at the title of this discussion, The BSA should get tough on scouts and scouters? One fairly new scouter even suggested I be censored on a discussion of mixed genders. Seems some folks are willing to push hostility to a new level to get what they want. So, explain to me why I should encourage my grandkids to join the BSA in this hostile environment. The game has lost the purpose. Barry

I think the choice for single-gender troops and patrols is the right approach. Barry

Here is a good start from an SPL. http://scoutmaster.org/boy led troop.pdf