Eagledad

Bob White was by far the most controversial contributor Ive ever seen in a Scouting forum. His method of persuasion was hammering his doubters into submission. He was a company man to say the least, but he loved Scouting. While he and I didnt agree on many aspects of the scouting program, he knew how to build a successful program. Personally I think we need to first come up with a general description of success. Bob White says some good things, but his list is way to long and it leaves out many troops I consider successful. I like Beavahs list because it pretty much includes most traits Ive seen in most successful troops. From my perspective, a lot of folks say scouting is for the boys, but I think scouting is an adult program to develop boys into citizens of character and leaders of integrity. For an adult program to meet those goals, you have to start with good adults. Barry

>>I heard this once ... The job of the Scoutmaster is to set back in his rocking chair and observe what is going on. If he has to get up then the youth leaders are not doing their job.

I enjoy knots also. My only job during the chariot race at camporee was to inspect and approve everyones elses knots. But holy cow, 152 knots? That is amazing. Barry

Hi All For me this is about setting the example of serving others. A SM serves his scouts by attending to their request at the soonest convenient time. A scout serves the SM by waiting for the SMs most convenient time. Also, this discussion is pointed toward an advancement requirement, but scouts should be in the habit of requesting a conference when they struggle and need the wisdom of SM. How many discussions have we about a scout who makes it all the way to the BOR but clearly has not demonstrated scout spirit? The main advice given is the scout should be counseled through his scouting experience, not just when he is ready to advance. Personally I think a week is the longest any scout should have to wait in most practical cases. A conference can be done anywhere. Ive done many on the ride to and from camp, during hikes, at the scouts' home, even once at my soccer practice because the scout was leaving town. I did an Eagle Conference at 3:00 in the morning while doing an all night walk for cancer. Maybe I tried to hard to be convenient at times, but for me that was a service I enjoyed. Waiting for a month seems like a long time. Barry

>>So what I'd love to hear from those who have "been there, done that" is, how can the district help you?>Also, I'm curious about whether new units typically have, or take, the chance to build a better/more active relationship with their new COs,>And finally, I'm REALLY curious about the time commitment. How much time should a reasonable person expect to put into getting a brand new unit up and running, in a typical week/month?

>>*Have a vision about the troop- share it with the other adults on the committee and with the ASM(s). Make sure everyone is on board.

It's been a while, but Council will accept the Scouts records. The blue card is a little harder. Without any proof, Council will likely ask him to do the MBs again. However, the scout only has to show he completed the items and a simpathetic couselor only needs to talk with him to find that he has indeed completed the badge before. Check the dates and signatures in the scouts books, cards and records to make sure they jive with leadership time requirements. Many times the card dates are when the adult recieved the cards, not the BOR date which is the offical date. Now, I'm assuming that you saying the past leaders didn't turn in advancement records. But just to make sure, I would ask the Council if they keep the hard copies (Green sheets) around just in case. Our council use to do this and we found many records that were not on the computer. Barry

I think your troop did well Ken. I cant see the house boat as high adventure because where is the adventure, and I can see how the adults would struggle on the line of boy run there. What we did was kind of define High Adventure differently then Fun weekends or other activities. I had a group of scouts who wanted to spend a weekend riding roller coasters. Not much high adventure, but defiantly an opportunity for development from my thinking. I suggested a scout take on lead, build crew including adults, plan the trip with the crew and lead it. It worked great because younger scouts who couldnt go on older scout trips joined, along with older scouts who didnt care much for outdoor High Adventure. Our troop also planned a ski trip every year the same way. This allows you a lot of expansion of your program and opportunities for development for all the ages. Multiple trips for scouts to choice from, more opportunities for leadership and planning development, more opportunities for younger ages, and a better defined explanation of high adventure. When our troop started looking at trips this way, we found ourselves doing three or four different trips a year. At least was one High Adventure. The groups or crews got a little smaller, but more scouts and adults overall in the whole troop got to participate in at least one trip a year. And you will likely find your troop growing a lot when the word gets out. Some scouts would just rather go on a trip to NASA then Philmont. As for me personally, I got to watch a lot of Crew Chiefs develop into good leaders. Barry

I'm Lisabob here, maybe it is a Bob White thing. When we were young and learning the Boy Run game, we adults didn't give our scouts as much choice as we should have mostly do to ignorance and inexperience. And the scouts let us do it mostly out of habit of adults telling them what to do. The adults are making choices based from adult concerns like economics. The boys will make the choice based from the appearnce of fun. The two can and should work together, but first they both have to learn that they can work together. It's a growing thing for everyone. I like Lisabobs idea of the SPL approaching the SM and asking that the scouts get more involved. I imagine the SM will first justify why they didn't, but then consider the idea and make it work. Barry

>> BSA has chosen to align themselves with a segment of society that is viewed by a growing majority of Americans as fundamentalist, intolerant and judgemental.

>>Another trend I've noticed is that some of the more "adventurous" boys are not making it through Cub Scouts because it's all boring and about crafts. They don't see the adventure ahead in Boy Scouts.

>>There IS a generational gap there, and it is reflected (among other things) in the skill sets we have.

We dont talk about it much, but scouting is basically building confidence to be brave. Just talk to any boy who has just set up a tent in the dark or rain for the first time and compare them to a boy who has not. There is a clear difference in confidence and maturity between the two boys. Well knot tying is the same. First of all, how do you teach lashings without first teaching the knots? You have to start somewhere. Second, watch the smile grow on the face of a boy who just learned a knot. His confidence and desire to learn another is 10 fold. I remember very well teaching one of dyslexic Webelos how to tie a knot. I did not know it at the time, but he was terrified all his friends would laugh at him because he would not be able to tie a knot. His dad had to explain to me later why his son cried after learning the square knot. An Eagle told me once that he knew he was going to be and Eagle after I asked him to teach a tenderfoot knots. Up to the point, he was terrible at knots, yet the SM had the conifience to ask him train a new scout gave him the confidence to realize he could do anything he wanted. I always challenged the adults in my Scoutmaster Specific class as to why we teach knots in a bungee cord/Velcro culture. We do it because it build character and makes builders from dreamers. To adults, the knot is a simple tool for simple needs. To a boy, the knot is a complex machine with unlimited uses. To a savvy Scout leader, the knot is a magic wand that has the ability to change wondering boys into men character. I love this scouting stuff.. Barry

Personally I think we are doomed. Society has come to believe that only politicians can fix this problem. Yet, what expertise if any do most politicians have in education? To make that worse, politicians motivation is not for the youth, but for themselves. Why in the world we let them do it is beyound me. There is really no accountability because the politicians are gone when their failures are realized. The only way to fix the problem is get the parents back into the picture, but we have let the politicians do it for so long that most parents don't want the responsibility anymore. Just ask most teachers how hard it is to get parents to even get involved with their own kids. So we have to leave it up to those who are in it only for themselves. We are doomed. Barry

>>A Scoutmaster could use B-P's principles to make this process boy-run while still working within the existing BSA structure:

>>From my experience the 12 and 13 year old PLs and SPLs don't have it. The difference in maturity between a 13 year old and a 16 year old is quite big.

>>A CO may have an issue with non-member youth having keys to their buildings/rooms. Plus possible liability issues.

>>What happened next was that all the scouts were given a blank paper by the scout master and told to make a two column 4 row chart to create a set-up amd clean-up duty roster. All while this is occuring boys and parents kept entering and leaving the small room. After 20 minutes it was over. No votes, no reports, no opening, no closing.

>>She also went as far as to write to the SPL to complain about issues within the troop. COMPLETELY unacceptable and she was told not to do that again, "I was just trying to get some answers"..by harassing the youth?

Hi all Great discussion. I would be surprised if any troop could brag that they dont do some item on the list. At training I defined boy run as a program where the adults give the scouts the freedom to initiate actions in their troop. I dont have a problem with any item on the list if the adults are trying to hand those items on the list to the scouts as they learn the program. Through my own personal humility, I am guilty of many items on the list. Lets face it, scouting is hard and very few adults are perfect scouters right at the beginning. If the choice is either the adults plan the campout or there will be no campout, well the choice is obvious. The hard part is the adults realizing they are the problem, not the scouts. They have to learn how to teach the scouts the skills required to take responsibility of the items on the list. Lisabob says it best: But there are only so many things one can challenge at a given time and my plate is full for now. . Truth is all troops are boy run to some degree. But some are just a lot more boy run than others and to some degree, our plates are full. A Good boy run troop is one where the adults handover ownership and responsibility of the program to the scouts as both the adults and the scouts gain maturity and experience. Its a tough list and I cringe when I think back of my experience with it. I love this scouting Stuff. Barry

My I suggest that every adult interested in the program first go to Scoutmaster Specific training so they can come of one mind of what the program is all about. I've always felt that the SM works for the committee, and the committees job is to hire the person who agrees with the program they want for their sons, and enforce that philosophy or program hodling the SM accountable toward working that goal. Now, the BSA pretty much sets the Vision and how to build a program to reach that vision. But most Troop committees dont have a clue about the BSAs Vision or Mission and even worse they havent heard of Aims and Methods. You might be surprised who wants the job after they learn and understand the boy run program. And you would be amazed how much easier and more fun the program will become after the adults learn what the BSA has to offer. Barry

Hi All I'm not trying to highjack thissubject, only enhance it. But here is another turkey recipe our troop has used a 100 times. It is from Jim in Kansas and in his own words. Man can he cook. Okay folks, here's the instructions for THE most spectacular and amazing way to roast a turkey. No, not even grandma's time-tested recipe will beat this! The turkey is golden brown all the way around and incredibly juicy! All of my scouting friends now roast their family Thanksgiving turkey in this fashion. Here goes: EQUIPMENT NEEDED: 4ea 4ft steel rebar stakes 4ea 10in X 3ft strips of chicken wire rolled into 3ft tall tubes 1 roll heavy duty, wide aluminum foil 3ea 8ft staves charcoal and starter 1 thawed turkey - popout button type or use meat therm. 1 large onion salt trowel or tongs PROCEDURE: 1. Pound 4ft rebar stakes into ground to make a 3ft X 3ft square. 2. Attach chicken wire tubes to stakes. 3. Wrap aluminum foil around stakes and tubes to make a box. Wrap two strips high. Crimp strips together at center seam. You should now have a 3ft square reflector oven. 4. Wire staves together to form tripod and place over box. 5. Remove giblets, wash turkey, rub with salt inside and out. Quarter onion and put inside turkey. 6. Suspend from tripod into center of box. 7. Start charcoal, when ready, use trowel or tongs to fill chicken wire tubes with hot charcoal. 8. As turkey cooks, add more unlit charcoal. COOKING NOTES: This is guaranteed to work the first time! An eighteen-twenty pound turkey takes about four hours to cook. After the first two hours you'll say"NO WAY...this bird is still raw!" An hour or two later it will be absolutely golden brown and beautiful. You won't believe how juicy it is! Blue Skies!

>>I saw a 30lb. Turkey cooked in one of these under 2 hours.

>>and, Barry, it's so hard to slip that cultural leash, isn't it? Especially when mommy usually IS the problem.

>>A firearm is a weapon regardless of the use to which it is currently being put, just like a Steak knife, Pocket knife, Camp Axe, Ice pick, CD case or even a pencil...