Eagledad

>>It needs to be done in a large group to get the real benefit and needs to be implemented back in the unit. The boy needs a backup.

>>Monocultures sooner or later will not bear fruit anymore. BSA might be the biggest organisation of its kind in the US today, but the way it is run, it will, in the long shot, fail.

>>I agree that there is no sense in having the SPL/ASPL attend if he is half way through his tenure.

>>I don't believe you're hateful; I do believe your perspective is driven by a feeling, not an argument, and I believe you prejudge gay people based on those feelings.

Boy Eamonn, sometimes I wonder if we were at one time joined at the hips. My thoughts are almost word for word the same as you wrote. Just when I felt National was starting to understand the training needs of the adults, they seem to go the opposite direction on the youth side. National just seems to struggle with the big picture. Still, this scouting stuff is pretty tough in the trenches. I'm know it isn't any easier for the professionals in the basement. Barry Barry

>>John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Oddly enough it doesnt say "unless your homosexual"

>>3. If the MBC or Summer Camp counselor doesn't deny the MB work because the kid has no blue card, but instead lets him continue, marks the MB complete, and provides the Council with some piece of paperwork saying the boy completed the MB, the Unit and the Council shouldn't allow it to go through because the boy and the MBC didn't ensure step #'s 1, 2, or 3 were done correctly.

>>My guess is 30-70% of WB's are ManScouts, dependin' on your area. It often attracts da wannabe Eagles who never made it as a kid. I'd say it's a slightly better predictor than the knot-infested.

>>Finally, I would say that if you could see the scout as being SPL or ASPL in the next 1-3 years, then you should send them.

>>However, an SM who doesn't know how to light a fire or sharpen a knife doesn't have much credibility with boys who he is asking to do the same.

>>That menu sounds very similar to what we ate every day at Philmont!

I love this scouting stuff. I think you dont realize your gift as a SM. This is just the next step in the scouts growing maturity and independence and I dont think there is much to say or do for the scouts; they have been camping long enough to know what to do. So your job is find what you can do to ease the minds of the concerned adults, maybe even yours. We adults tend to limit our youths growing experiences by our fears. How can you ease the fears so the adults get out of the way of scouts growth. One idea is explain the adult's concerns to the scouts and ask them what they might do to ease them. I just love reading post about your troop. I look forward to you becoming a adult trainer so you can pass your knowledge and skills on to other adults. Barry

The widely accepted answer is the counselor has the final say. Our council uses the white MB cards and these cards only have one place for the SM's signature. We used to have to use the blue cards when we went to a camp outside our council and I always thought two signatures for the SM was rather confusing. Now most camps accept our white cards. As for lousy summer camp counselors, don't let them sign at the end and find a counselor at home to finish. We have been to camps with some good staffs and some not so good, but my opinion is any troop handing over their advancement program to a summer camp staff gets what they pay for and shouldn't complain. Barry

>>However, as Gern points out, today the tide has already turned in the US with respect to views towards homosexuality. What our parents generation thought of as sinful or perverted our childrens genertion is accepting as being merely different.

Very impressive. When I read about scouts in a troop like this, I want to personally meet the SM because it take a special person of wisdom and patience to not only encourage such leadership, but to also get out of the way. I only have a couple suggestions to add to the already good advice. First, let the scouts do the choosing so they are buying into the idea and have some ownership. Second, be honest about your concerns and gaols for the change. I find when the adults are up front about changes, the scouts will do the best they can to ease the concerns. Hope you hang around, I really enjoy reading about your program. Are you close to Oklahoma? I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>The SPL is looking at splitting the Troop into 2 patrols

What is the question? A few random thoughts; --I know the SM Handbook says the SM sets up BORs, but I never did, our Scouts set up their BORs when they felt the need. My way of doing SM conferences was summarizing my thoughts at the end of where I felt the scout stood at the moment. Then I allowed him to choose if he was ready for the BOR. Not by the book, I know, but I saw so many boys make man size decisions at the point. --The head of the BOR and I generally talked before and after the reviews so that we all had an understanding of our thinking. I (the SM) tried to always end those conversations with, "got any advice for me?". I think the present BOR process is stupid. But it will work if the players involved want to make it work. --The BOR and I once totally disagreed on the performance of a scout. It hurts me to this day because looking back on it, we were both right. We just saw the scout from two different perspectives. The wonderful members of the BOR saw the overall performance of the scout, I saw his growth from day to day. I'm not sure how I could have made that better, but the scout suffered from it. --I think the SM is responsible for setting expectations and accountability of performance of each scout, but I did as much of that through the PLC as their maturity allowed so that they developed those skills as well. Accountability is not as easy as we make it sound, yet we expect adults to be good at it from the beginning. I know better, that is why I wanted our sons to experience some of it early in their life. --The SM is not suppose to sit in on a BOR. I did every once-in-a-while because they need accountability as well. In general you have the same SM for a long period of time who can change to improve performance. But it is not unusual to have many adults sit in on BORs. Like anything else, being good at something requires practice. The BOR needs critique just like everyone else. --I think advancing a scout to the next step in his scouting career, whatever that is, requires a team effort. If anyone along the way doesn't feel that way, there will be problems. I think a constant review of the team's vision and the goals of reaching that vision need to be constantly reviewed so the team understands its mission. Good discussion. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>> I'd hazard a guess that if the SM had a little more communication with the Life Scout, he wouldn't be surprised that the project was already completed.

>>Adults have to set clear expectations for behavior and then they have to be consistent about enforcing them. Senior scouts and those in leadership need to "buy in" to those expectations, and sure, have a hand in shaping them to some extent. Adults need to help senior scouts learn how to convey those expectations to the rest of the group too, instead of leaving them on their own and hoping they "get it," but then expressing dismay when some of them inevitably do not.

Hi All Once during summer camp a few years ago, four of our new scouts were so excited about their adventure that they were keeping the rest of the camp awake. The SPL tried several times to quiet them down, but they were anxious for what they saw coming in the next few days and couldnt hold back the tone. Looking for a way to let the camp sleep without throwing water on the scouts excitement, I ask the scout to join me on a midnight hike in the middle of the beautiful Colorado evening. The camp is rather large, which gave us plenty of time to stop and look at the stars, trees and mountain shadows drawn by the moon light. While we had a few nice discussions along the way, the hike also gave everyone some quiet time that I was hoping would create a little thirst for sleep. Eventually the appropriate spot came to where I could stop and ask with a smile This is becoming a long night for a few of us, what parts of the Scout Law and Scout Oath did we mess up on this evening. It appears there is a whole lot of messing up of the Scout Law and Oath going on here and wisdom is needed. Maybe these scouts need a change of environment that will give them some quiet time to allow the wisdom to seep into the cracks. It is time for the SM to step in. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>Now, yeh need to make a similar "be comfortable" or "have experience" list for parents. Beavah

Ask the SM what his goals are for you son in the next year, and five years from now. See if that gives you a better picture of the adults vision, or if they even have a vision. As for the parents, explain the troops just as you did to us and let them ask the questions so you can educate to good and bad points. Both sound like pretty good programs to me. Barry

>>Did you have boys who went to other troops, despite this experience? Just curious.

>>* A big chunk of attrition is due to middle school competitive sports programs. Those are a financial and "required participation" commitment, scouting is not. Unless dad was a scout and valued the program, the middle school sports kids leave. Part of dat is yeh still have to participate in scouts to feel "part of the team" and not fall behind your peers. * Another chunk is "parent exhaustion." Most of these just don't cross over. They've been burned out by all the parent stuff in cub scouting, and are relieved that "it's finally over." * Another chunk is "camping shock" on the part of the kids. Anarchist describes it to a "T". A boy who has been doin' nothing but parlor cubbing and one "fairest of fair weather" camp is stunned by camping in a troop. It's wet, smelly, cold, I have to work, etc. Personally, I think a lot of cub programs lose the adventurous lads before they ever make it to Boy Scouting. * Yet another big chunk is poor parent education/communication by the troop. It's just "too big a leap" for the parents who believe scouting is an "organized activity." * Some boys drop for academic reasons. Middle school can be a tough transition that way. * A final one is boys who are isolated - who don't have friends from the get-go in the troop.

Well I understand how you feel. We make a joke of it, but in reality their pain really does hurt us as much as it does them. Just wait until the move out, it only seems to hurt more. Anyways, looking at it from my computer in Oklahoma, you may have taken action too quickly and let emotions dominate the discussion. Do to lack of details, I'm not sure who should lead in resolving the problem, but the two parents probably are the least likely because they have the most emotion invested. Instead I would suggest you call the SM who will be more diplomatic in his approach to find out what is going on. I also agree that I would ask your son to talk with the SPL and/or the SM to seek guidance. I'm sure you are already thinking this way, but as a scout he needs to learn how to start dealing with these things first before he goes to dad for additional help and guidance. As a SM, I certainly would like to talk with the Eagle about this. Once our Scouts start working on their Star, they are told that their behavior is held to a much higher standard because they are the role models and to just expect many conferences because of that. Barry