Eagledad

Hi EagleInKY Not sure what youre looking for and really HH sounds like a really good adventure. There is another option near Philmont called Chimayo High Adventure at BSA Camp Frank Rand. The part we did was their Pecos backpacking trek which is in the Pecos Mountains by Santa Fe. Of all the High Adventure hiking treks our troop has done across the county, that one is still considered the most beautiful and most high adventure. After the first day, you will not see another soul for a week. And it is gorgeous woulded county you will ever see. The Pecos Wilderness has dozens of trails that are hundreds a miles long, so you basically customize your trek with your guide when you get to camp to match your scouts experience and what they want to do. One of our crews hiked to a different fishing hole every day catching trout for dinner. They send a Boy Scout guide along with you who trains you in Low impact camping if you don't already know how. Tehy are pretty strict with LNT. They use Philmont gear and the Philmont food. HH does sound really good and I know we will consider it in our future. I just wanted to give you another option in that area. Here is some information: http://www.gswcbsa.org/summercamp/highadv/index.shtml Barry

>>If the SM sees the Scout is just not ready, he can decide the conference needs continuing.

Boys loves lock ins. Do it at the YMCA and you have facility of things to do like swimming and basketball in a building designed for those activities. My experience is that boys are attracted to lock-ins for the simple reason of just staying up all night long. Our troop does computer lock-ins where scouts bring in computers to play video games all night long. We even did one once at an Air Force Base where the Scouts got to sleep in a C-17. Our District does Cub Scout lock-ins at a local museum designed for kids doing hands on experienments. Usually attracts about 600 cubs and parents. Not done one for recruiting, but I love thinking out of the box. Barry

>>Not sure what would be wrong with a friendly chat between people on the same team to share information and discuss possible changes or adjustments?

>>One of the purposes of the BOR is to do "a checkup" on the health of the troop. That is an indication of whether the SM is doing his job. If he isn't doing his job, the CC needs to have a chat with him.

>>If the BOR believes that the Scout never learned his stuff, they have an obligation to fail him and then chastise the SM for letting the Scout get that far.

>>But every time something like this crops up, people keep bleating how gays have to be kept out.

>>It's not a life-changing experience for a boy. It's meant to get his feet wet and prepare him for the higher ranks, where the real fitness, character and citizenship learning happens.

>>If Leadership was not required for Advancement it would eliminate the constant turnover which undermines the Patrol Method with its natural youth-youth skill training.

>>At Philmont our guide said for the crew you only need 2 knives, the scouts had a real issue with this. I told them they could carry as many knives as they wanted. After the hike they understood why only 2 knives where needed, they where rarely used.

Find the name of the pinewood chairman and give him a call. Those guys are always cool, have lots of fun, and let anybody help. That is the best starting-out job and once your started anywhere, you're in. Glad to have ya in this Scouting Stuff. Barry

>>Folding knives (clasp and lockback) only on Scout activities. Others not necessary (except for perhaps kitchen knives for cooking use).

>>I here those up north have more of an emphasize on programing, not MB's and advancement.

It is not a national policy, but some councils have the policy. Call your DE and ask if the council has anything in writing. Barry

>>I'm in no way saying that what we have doesn't work or hasn't worked, but maybe it's time for a change of mindset?

>>Every time one makes a rule, something comes up to force an exception. Boys in our troop assume leadership when they make the effort to actually function in that position. If one has a firecracker of a scout who would do an excellent job as a SPL, they shouldn't have to sit on the sidelines until they earn their rank or have a birthday.

>>O'course, yeh can also use such a list backwards as well. A boy who makes a good JASM (you're treatin' him like an adult ASM) really should be (encouraged to finish) Eagle. He's "there." And a boy who isn't yet ready for a position like SPL or ASPL perhaps isn't yet ready for Life.

>>APL: Must be First Class. He needs to know the basics confidently before he can start tryin' to lead. PL: Must be Star and/or a former APL. He should have some leadership experience, deeper skill, and some troop-level service before gettin' the most important job in Scouting. SPL/ASPL/QM: Must be Life. JASM: Must be Eagle

Good Sunday All >>Moreover, I think those basics arise from simple application of logic and require nothing else.>Which is why I don't understand why anyone thinks morality MUST depend on religious faith and that without such faith there can be no such moral codes.

>>That the inclusion of female scouters disrupts that bonding atmosphere.

Hi Slochhat >>Your sexual orientation is not a matter of choice.

Honestly I dont know how to answer your questions. Im not one of those who needs to have the last word to feel satisfied that I got my point across. And your assumptions and questions are so off the mark that I dont have time to educate you on American culture, mainstream culture, BSA policy and so on. It would be the same as me accusing German beer makers of using backward practices in making beer because it doesnt taste Budweiser. Where would any German begin in trying to explain that? That you dont think the BSA represents the mainstream pretty much explains your ignorance about the BSA and American culture. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving. Barry

>>I find those values offensive, not valuable and regard mine as superior.

>>What's your point? We're just ten years short of 100, doing things very differently and scouting is very successful in this country without kicking people out because of their sexual orientation, etc.

I'm saying that we couldn't even begin to teach the skills required for good leadership at the SPL level, so we ran the course giving the expectation that the scouts would go back and teach the skills to the rest of the scouts. THey were still ASPL and SPLs, but the burden on them from us was passing those skills on to the rest of the troop. We of course hope they use the skills and we got letters saying they did, but we wanted to set the standard of expected leadership maturity high. I would say in reality, less then 50% of the units actually did use their scouts to teach JLT. It was a scoutmaster problem. That was back in the JLTC days where scout skills was part of the course. One of the problems we encountered with Scoutmasters is that they expected us to teach their scouts scout skills. Imagine, at age 14 or older, they still expected us to teach scout skills. So, to nip that expectation in the bud, we told the Scoutmasters that we expected the scouts to already know first class skills. We were not teaching cooking either. Boy that was a hot potato for a while as well. Part of the reason for the high standards was to set a council minimum level of expectation for the troops. Not many do that really. In fact there are some councils that encouraged 11 and 12 year old scouts to go to JLTC. After investigation, they were basically just scouts skills developments. I was told that is why National is so insistent that scouts be at least 14 for NYLT. It is to prevent councils from dumbing down the course. My complaint with the new course is that it should be teaching leadership skills instead of vision, mission and team building. Oh sure those are important, expecailly at the adult level, but we should start with the basics before we get into the team building side. That is me of course. Barry