Eagledad

>>AND this is not the case in a Troop that uses First Class emphasis?

Hello all. >>If boys are wrapped up in a good Scouting program utilizing a variety of methods, advancement cant help but happen. >First Class Emphasis (which is the original topic of this thread) focuses on the advancement method.

Great Scouting All >>Scouting is more than just keeping a group of kids happy. Scouts who are not advancing are not learning and practicing the skills and values of scouting, or if they are someone is evidently forgetting to recognize them for their efforts.

at Tuesday All Hi Catmechanic. Could you tell us where the name comes from? And welcome to the good life of Scoutmastering. Get ready, hold on, because the ride is about to start. May I suggest a little reading to find the frame of mind of a boy run Scoutmaster. Start with Aids To Scoutmastership from Baden Powel, which you can find by doing a google search. Also read anything else from Baden Powel as well. Also give Report of the Commission on Principles of Scoutmastership In Relation To Boy Development a read as well. (http://ecommunity.uml.edu/scouting26/program/sm_principles.html) It was written in the 1930s by Dr. William H. Kilpatrick and is one of the best guides to Scoutmastering Ive ever found. Those sources are a couple hours of reading, so I suggest just doing in small bites a few minutes each day until you learn were to go for answers. But they are great guides to the mind set of a boy run Scoutmaster. I will say I have never met a good boy run Scoutmaster who didn't read Baden Powell. A lot of what you are going to read and hear from other leaders is wisdom and experience and it may sound foreign. But eventually you will likely experience it for yourself down the road because I have found that even though we are all different in many ways, the nature of adults and boys is pretty consistent. Its almost scary in fact. Here are a few facts you need to learn right up front: The adults will have to learn more faster then the scouts to keep the program maturing in a positive direction, and to stay out of the scouts way. Watch and learn so that you can change when something is not working. Boys between the ages of 10 and 13 hate leadership. They are pre-puberty and their nature would rather run around playing tag with their friends instead of being taken out of the group by being their friends leader. Oh they will lead for a little while because it appears fun at first and the adult leaders say they have too, but they wont like it. Scouts 14 and older love leadership. They have the bodies and minds of adults, mixed up adults maybe, but still adults. These guys are dreamers and their nature feels a desire to serve and make life better. They also have a wanting to find their place in the world and serving gives them a way to find how their dreams can make the world better. If you have nourished the idea that this is their world to do that, you will be amazed at what the scouts can do. No other program offers young men and opportunity to test their dreams. Imagine that, if you can. You will also find this is where your wisdom will be pulled the most. And you will find working with the older scouts truly exciting and rewarding. Remember that the Troop is the real world scaled down to a boys size. This is your chance to give boys experiences that they will have again when they are adults. The only difference is that the Troop is a safe place. That means the scouts should feel safe that they can mistakes without feeling that the adults will come down on them. Mistakes is where we learn the most, so the adults should look forward to mistakes and struggles knowing that they are having a learning moment. Humans learn 80 to 90 percent of their behavior by watching others, not by listening. Every time you stop the boys from moving to tell them something, they are only getting 10 to 20 percent of what comes out of your mouth. They need to learn by watching others in action and by doing. 80 to 90 percent of what the boys use in their leadership and skills at ages 14 and older was learned between the ages of 10 to 13. That is no coincidence. Humans absorb most of what they learn before puberty. After that they have to actively learn. So, the more your scouts can watch leadership in action at a young age, the better they will lead when they reach the older age scouts. You are at a big disadvantage because you dont have older scouts for the young scout to learn from, but at least you will know this for your future new scouts. Try to understand that boy growth is only limited by the adults, not the scouts. Most of the limitations adults put on the boys come from adult fears. Some of it will come from adult arrogance but adults need to learn how to train scouts around the adult fears. Never say a scout can never. Instead learn to say how can we get to that point. If you are afraid to let the scouts go on a five mile hike without adults, then figure out a way to do that by training the scouts and picky different locations. But don't let fear hold your scouts back. Humility you will find is the best adults have the offer our future leaders. When you dont know, tell the scouts you dont know. When you are wrong, tell the scouts you are wrong. That sounds easy; you will find it to be otherwise and requires a lot of courage. Remember what the scouts will translate into action what the adults think. If adults think boys are silly and cant lead, that is what you will see the boys do. If the adults think older scouts hate to work with younger scouts, that is what the boys will believe. None of it is true. Dont allow the adult negative attitudes to encroach on the program. Adults have to know that boys can respect others and treat each other fair. Set expectations of boys to act like men. Boys want to be adults so they enjoy adults who treat them that way. And when they don't act that way, the other scouts will hold them accountible. If something is not working, change it. Dont repeat failures over and over. Find a better way to reach the goal. The scout will learn from this as well. May I suggest you go and buy several copies of the SPL Handbook and PL Handbook. Give them to your SPL and PL and the other adults. They are a quick read, so have everyone read them and then build your troop from those books. They are easy for the scouts to understand and when they see that the adults are following the books as well, they will learn to trust the adults quicker because they can see they arent following you the all-mighty adult, but instead the program guidelines. Always keep the books with you so that you and the scouts can refer to them anytime there is a misunderstanding. If something doesnt seem to be working by the book, then work with the scouts to change so that everyone is on board. But do it together. This is very difficult with younger scouts because they dont care all that much. Again this leadership stuff isnt fun and they would rather you just tell them what to do because that is what they are used to adults doing. But dont do it. Make sure they are part of the process because two years down the road you will reap lots of rewards from the confidence gained that this is their troop and not the adults. When they reach that 14 year old age, your scouts will take over and push the program so fast the adults will not be able to keep up. And, you will have an easier time with the other adults as well because the PL and SPL book is a simple easy guideline even they can follow. Adults dont like to read either, so the SM has to do most of it OK, Beavaher is right that you need to think about the troop you want five years from now. I like to tell new troop leaders to try and get in the habits of a five year old troop, not a new one. That way you and the boys arent constantly changing your program habits as everyone changes and matures. It will still happen, but dont assume eleven year olds cant run a PLC meeting so you decide to wait until they are 14 to run it. What happens is they may have the maturity to run a meeting at 14, but not the knowledge or experience, so they flounder when all the other 14 year olds in other troops can run a meeting in their sleep. Grow with the program with their maturity and experience. You should see a difference every six months in everything you do the first two years. If you dont, then something needs to change. Now the Handbooks suggest electing a new SPL every six months. For a brand new troop I found that it works better to give the scouts a quick example of how a troop works. There are two ways to do this. Either ask another scoutmaster if you can have your meetings with them for a couple months, or I like the idea of the SM playing the part of the SPL for a couple of months. I know a lot of adults dont like that idea, but most of the time it is the adults who are lost while learning and letting the SM be the SPL for a couple months gives helps the adults and scouts learn an amazing amount of how a boy run program can work. Then have your first election. No more then two months because you need the scouts to be leading with some confidence by summer camp. No matter what you do, I suggest that the first three SPL elections three months apart. You want that scout to do the task of an SPL to the best his maturity will allow, but that is a lot of work for an eleven year old and he will be exhausted by the end of three months. So dont make the position a punishment. Make it a reward for being elected in that position. After the first year, then I would go to the Six months election cycle. By that time you will have older more mature scouts who can handle the job better. But, remember they are still just 12 years old. You have to push them hard enough to grow from the experience, but when they dont want to come to scouts anymore, that is too far. Dont be afraid to find that line. Push the program so you can learn the limits of each scout. Next, when you get your next new batch of scouts in spring of 2009, your first year of scouts need to train them and get them up to speed as fast as possible. After summer camp, those scouts need to become part of the troop leaders. That is because your other scouts are likely starting to burn out and need some break. What Im saying is after summer camp of 2009, all your scouts need to be considered your core starter group. I know it doesnt seem right, but trust me that these guys need to share the leadership load for the next cuple of year or they will start to hate scouting. Building a new boy run troop is stressful and the more scouts that share the burden the better. It will be the new scouts from 2010 who will be considered the younger scouts. Those are the guys you need to understand that will learn by watching the older scouts. That is the group where the adults really need to step way back in your boy run troop and trust that the older scout will build the personality of your troop. By the way, you will get a taste of how the scouts think of their experience by how the treat the new scouts. Watch them and learn where the adults need to change. Now for the adults. The sooner the adults relinquish their dominance over the boys, the faster your scouts will start to grow. Start with this habit. Adults should try to get out of the habit of raising their signs first to gain control. Instead the adult in the room goes to the lead scout in the room and ask him to get control. Once the scout raises his sign, then you the adult can raise your sign setting and example that everyone follow the lead scout. But by asking the scout to take control, you are showing that you are not the leader, the scouts are. You are their source of wisdom and resources, but not their leader. Also, remember that by the age 15, a scout should pretty much be able to run the troop with almost no help from and adult. So, consider your 11 year old the same only where he falls in maturity and experience, the adults can fill in enohgh to keep the program moving. Not lead, only help. As the socut gains confidence, then the adults need to step back and let the scout take on more. This teaches the adults to not do for a scout what he cant do for himself. Always let them go first. For example, your first SPL for your first PLC meeting will likely not lead at all. But what you do is coach him before the by working with him to write a meeting agenda guided by the SPL Handbook. Then coach him what they want to talk about at each agenda item. As the scout starts the meeting let him go until he just cant go any farther. Then ask him for permission to add to what he was trying to do or say. Then sit down at the next agenda item and make the scout lead. The scout has to learn that you are not going to jump in every time he stumbles. So as he gets more experienced, you need to help him less and less and instead start giving your guidance after the meeting. By the end of his stint as a leader, the scout should not get any help from and adult. In my troop, the SPL didnt even see me in the room his last two months as the leader. I might be outside the room or out of site. But I gradually handed the responsibility over to him as he gained confidence. Not experience, but confidence. If and when scouts are lost, teach him to look at his SPL Handbook. If the answer isnt in the book, then feel out the situation. But I like to force scouts to learn the skill of mprovise. That teaches a scout not to panic but instead come up with ideas on the spot to move on. And it stops scouts from just stopping and looking over at the adult to take over. I always cringe when Im at some OA event and some poor scout who is leading a meeting stumbles, panics and looks over to the adult OA adviser. Learn to NOT take over. REMEMBER, the other scouts learn by watching. OK, Im sorry this is way too much to read all at once. I love this scouting stuff and you will too. It will be a lot of work at first, but the rewards are wonderful and will last all your life. Keep us up on the progress and keep asking questions. One day it will be you giving the answers. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Great Monday All >>Retiring SPL(not Eagle) to become Troop Guide and advisor for current SPL Retiring SPL(Eagle) Appointed JASM

>>If he doesn't qualify to be a Boy Scout, he has to wait. That's the choice he has made regardless of the reason. And those are the consequence's of the decision he has made. A life lesson has been learned.

Almost everyday I pray that folks will see God through my actions. We just saw Him through you GWD. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Blessings All >>That troop did stuff like that a lot. The attitude was always, "oops, sorry about that, no harm done." But harm did get done, and now my son is out and is not interested in coming back to scouting.

>>This goes back to the question, to what degree is the boy let troop boy led?

>>In our troop, the PLC in the past has had little to do with the COH. The preveous scoutmasters have done this. This goes back to the question, to what degree is the boy let troop boy led?

Wonderful friday All Personally I don't think you should focus on the number of scouts, whether it is one or two or whatever. I look at the requirement as Oak Tree writes: "As the requirement is written, it seems like it's wanting one person to write the script and serve as emcee." If you feel you can get all four of the scouts to achieve that requirement, then you are OK. That is the way I counseled the badge. Now, I know by using Oaks definition that more then one or two scouts at a COH sounds unreasonable. But have you been to four Eagle Ceremonies at one time? Many troops do a Troop COH followed by with a break then an Eagle COH. In a large troop, that COH might be so complicated that it required three scouts to plan and lead. And what about a Troop Campfire followed with a COH. These things get complicated and require several planners and leaders. All that being said, just make sure the scout is growing from the experience, not just completing a requirement. Barry

HI All >>I would suggest starting with a meeting that includes CC, CM, COR, and see if your BSA district representative is available.

Well, if he is as Gern discribes, I would let him stay. There is a lot of game playing in divorces today and this situation is surprisingly common. And I think myself very picky about adults who role model my sons and my scouts. Barry

Chuck it up to any drill and cut them down with a file or sandpaper. Ive never had to narrow them down as much as you want, but Ive trimmed and tuned many wheels with this method. I dont think it will take you very long with a heavy grit paper and then you can smooth them out with smaller grit when you get close to the width you want. Each wheel will be very balanced. Even with narrow tires, I think most or your speed will still come from how you dress and polish your axles. Barry

Hi All A good friend of mine who had been a SM for about year once called me and asked for advice. He asked me how I made campouts fun. He then told me how their troop works on scouts skills all weekend long and the scouts and the other adults were really starting to hate it. I asked him where he got the idea that scouts were supposed to work on scout skills the whole campout. He said at Scout Leader Training. I can kind of see that with his troop. Neither he nor any of his adults were ever scouts. The Scout Master Training (before the now present syllabus) was a full weekend of skills and lectures for the adults. He just didnt know. But come on. I agree that the purpose part of the program is indeed the challenge for adults. Still we need to remind each other that if it is not fun, the scouts arent going to come. I think we adults need to find indicators that tell us we are going the right direction. When we started our new troop, Fun was our first priority. That is easy to say, but what does that mean? Maybe it means just reminding ourselves of it. Still, our troop is one of the few around here that doesnt plan meetings or campouts specific to entertain or impress Webelos. Our motto is What you see is what you get. That can be a lot of pressure for a troop, but we averaged 25 new scouts a year the first five years. My son (now 24) reminded me the other day that our troop was so busy having fun that usually all the scouts were asleep by 10:00 because they were wiped out. I remember that because as a Scoutmasters treat, I would provide a Cracker Barrow for the Scouts after our Campfire and only a few scouts would come. When I asked why, they were tired and in their tents. I remember one campout where the guys planned a kind of Triathlon that required the scouts to hiked, biked and canoe about ten miles with 15 skills competition stops along the way. At the last minute about 15 Webelos and half that many parents asked to come on the campout. It was a challenge for our ASPLs because they had to plan menus and rent another trailer for the bikes. But, those guys played so hard Saturday that they were exhausted Sunday (the Webelos parents could barely walk). In fact the whole troop was so tired the PLC canceled our usual capture the flag and we left early. I was worried we may not get any of those Webelos, but on the contrary, they had never had so much fun and we got them plus their friends. Sometimes we talk about how the scouts dont seem to come up with new ideas for activities. That is when the adults have to fill in the blanks with there FUN ideas. Realaly they dont have to be complicated. You just have to dare to be different. Move the Troop Meeting at a different location like the local park. Call the fire department and ask they could just happen to bring their fire truck by at one meeting. Some of our guys were working on the Automobile Maintenance (I think that is what it is called) and they came up with the idea of doing a hot rod car show at one of the meetings. I would have never thought of that and neither did our PLC. But they like the idea so much that they took the suggestion and change that months schedule. Great discussion, but Eamonn always seems to know what to talk about. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Great Day All >>There can be times when it crosses over to leadership, etc. teaching the other scouts the correct MB book check-out or maybe talking to the other scouts about correct advancement recording.

>>On whose plate resides the responsibility to make Scribe, Historian, Chaplain's Aide et al a viable position that teaches leadership and responsibility?

>>Do a Google on Perfect N or Partial Perfect N races. They run every boy on every lane, and if you have the time, against every other boy. If you are running a 3 lane track, each boy runs at LEAST 3 races, usually 6 or more. They have fun, don't get bored and everyone goes home happy.

While I would not lay this problem on the back of a scout, I do think there is an opportunity for the troop here. Maybe its time to ask an adult develop a Sunday service for scouts to lead. Im not much on Scouts Own because they are rather bland (boring) and seem to miss the point. Instead I have seen great responses with troops that do a service of a different religion at each campout. As for the mother, I think there is information in your Wood Badge stuff that you can show her. Barry

Happy New Year All >>I typcially talk to the parents and the boy separately and get them to agree to make a commitment without causing pain and suffering along the way.

Hi all >>As noted, they are not likely to "grab the bull by the horns so to speak". Why should they? In every other aspect of the lives, adults run the show, and that's their expectation.

Blessed New Year All I think this is a great question. My personal goal for our troop (all the adults and scouts knew this) was to develop a troop where the scouts could run the program for a full month without the adults ever showing up. We didn't get there while I was SM. While I think that vision is rare, I know of a lot of adults across the county with that same goal. You can't really take the adults out of the scouting program because wisdom from life's experience is a required ingredient to fuel growth. However, you would be surprised how little adult interaction is required in a mature functioning program. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Happy New All >>the scoutmaster himself would cook the first meal of the next outing for the winning patrol (He was a REALLY good cook!)>> The Scoutmaster who replaced me did kind of the same thing except he wasn't a great cook. So he did the Patrol's KP for Saturday nights dinner. It worked very well. Ahhh I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Potluck cobbler

Beautiful Sunday All >>and we have more boys age out of the troop (at whatever rank) than just Eagle-and-out, which says something to me about the appropriateness of the level of adventure.