Eagledad

I'm not sure if that is a local thing or not, (Eamonn?). Typically in our council the ASM of TGs helps the TGs in the approve the tickets. The CD may are may not get involved depending on their time and how much they trust the ASM. Usually the TGs do get some help in the process because they are very busy and they are typically the new kids on the block. Barry

From Kudu:>> But as you have discovered, people do not vote in their own best interests, they always vote for the most amusing personality (see "Bill Clinton" and "George W. Bush").> Simply doing the bidding of the adults isn't functional leadership. If one wishes to be helpful (i.e. refer to Scout Law) take on whatever support role they feel most comfortable with. If one ends up the troop "buffoon".

>>I really want to work with this kid, but am getting very weary of Mom. How can I possibly help her son grow and learn as a Scout and in his POR, most likely resulting in hard lessons for him, by having to worry about his Mom making a scene.

>>Yah, I reckon John-in-KC is just startin' to get used to talkin' like a cuddly, cute little beavah, eh?

>> Chivalry looks and sounds nice but it was really nothing more than a mode of behavior for the privileged.

Great Friday All Hi Victonate Except for the part where Bob White suggests ignoring the folks on the internet, I agree with his suggestions. They arent over the top in this instance. I give you extra credit for taking the SM Specific course. You didnt say if the SM took that course, but Eamonn is correct that you could also be suffering from a training high. I get it just teaching and it takes a little time getting my feet back on the ground. The thing here is while the CC has responsibility for quality of the program; the Scoutmaster is the soul of the program. The scoutmaster is the philosophical vision for the troop. I once described the Scoutmaster as the Gate Keeper of the Vision. That doesnt mean the CC has to leave the SM unchecked in the way he works toward that vision. I once watched a very savvy CC save the Troop from a law suit because the SM was a bit too protective of his scouts. He was a great SM, but he hadnt learned his limitations yet. She save his rear. She was the best CC Ive seen because she had a way of keeping checks and balances on the SM without having to bring in a lot of drama. She took the SM out to lunch several times to talk about troop business, then she would casually slip in her concerns about the SM performance. Perfection is built from the steps of humility. If you and your SM cant understand that, well then drama will eventually take over. So where does that leave everyone else? Ive always felt that the job of the CC is to find out what the Scoutmasters visions or goals are for the scouts, and then if the CC agrees with the SM, they protect the SM so he/she can build the program toward that vision or goal. The CC needs to make sure everyone learns and understands the vision of the troop. Does you Scoutmaster have a vision or visions for the program and for the scouts? You cant know that until you spend some time with each other talking about this scouting stuff. If he doesnt, then it is time to bring in the adults and discuss it. I personally think that Wood Badge is very good for this very thing. It teaches about visions and team building. Eamonn should have wonderful advise for you in that area. Meanwhile, it is important that you get everyone up to speed with the program. Training is important and I certainly think you will get way ahead there. I do admire you for drudging through Scoutmaster Specific. I personally think all the committee and ASMS should take it because the units are the ones that think with one mind. It can be a painful course depending on who teaches it. But once everyone agrees on the vision and goals, the adults function a lot better. Let drama be your measurement to how fast you approach this situation. If this situation has any kind of negative effect on the scouts or program, than you are going too fast. Backup and come in with a different plan. If you are to have integrity, you have to be logical and professional. You have to approach the situation as a representative of the BSA, not your emotions. Barry

I think you know what to do. I don't mean to sound flippant when I say a Scout I Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent. So that is why I think you know what the right think is to do. What is bothering you is that you dont feel that youre being treated fairly. And I agree from your side of the story. But, I think people will notice. When things get tough, people look for those they can trust and count on. If you want to stand out and be the best choice, then you have to stand out as the best choice. Those who make promises and dont keep those promises will stand out as well, but not as the best choice. They will in the long run be left behind. The bible says we grow by our struggles. Those who dont struggle dont grow. You are in the middle of one of those life struggles. These things will keep happening as you get older, so now is the time to learn how to deal with it. Learn now so you can help your friends when it happens to them. There are several paths you can take in your frustration and anger, but generally the Scout Law will lead you to the best path. You base your next steps from the law, and your choices become easier. And when you are confronted with this same situation as you get older, you will be more prepared then the others. Remember, everything we do in life is practice for the next thing we do in life. And what we practice, we learn. Dont let the anger and frustration drive you to practice the wrong thing. When you think of yourself as a Scoutmaster one day, what would you want a scout in the same situation to do? Its not just you, but the rest of the scouts who are needing a Quarter Master. And I think you will find that serving others sure eases the pain. You are better than the other guy. Hold your chin up and prove it to everyone one. Next elections are only a few months away. You can prove a lot in those few months. If I were your scoutmaster, I would be proud of you for just asking for advice. You didnt react, you are thinking about what is best. Those are the great scouts. Good Luck. Barry

>>I have to say that, offense or no offense, I remain perplexed by the desire to cling to the fiction ( Disney, as a couple of people put it).

Sometimes we tend to over complicate things that were intended to be simple. As an engineer, I tend to spend as much time scaling down my original idea as I did coming up with the idea in the first place. It drives me crazy, but because I know I have that problem, I also watch for it in other parts of my life. I used to drive our District Committee crazy because I had a knack for asking these types of questions. They seemed rather excited when I move up to council. Hmm My fear in this case is the adults would put in more of their volunteer time then the benefits are worth and you could risk burnout. I was thinking along the lines of what Scoutnut said; the extra work to accommodate tiger age boys may be more then they want. But Cubmaster Randys observation is worth noting as well as yours, so we have to weigh these things. I sure would like to give Eamonn a little more space from the rock. Barry

>>One observation that I have made in my old pack was that when we did do spring recruiting, we signed up more tigers. I think this is because we got ahead of all the other activities that they were being asked to sign up for.

Hi All Eamonn, I have a couple questions that you and Lisabob may know. How much does recruiting in the Spring help the total Tiger numbers over the total numbers (Fall) before you started recruiting in the spring? It seems to me that you are recruiting the same pool of scouts you would be recruiting in the Fall. So Im wondering what you are trying to gain by recruiting in the Spring. Barry

>>In fact I don't believe you will find that the BSA even cares as to what age a scout earns any of the upper ranks, as long as it is prior to their 18th Birthday.

My bad, I guess its been a while. Barry

Hi Trailblazermom Your son can certainly earn both badges in six months if he is willing. However, that is a lot of focus on just the advancement part of the program. You have to measure your son personally, but most boys who ram that much Webelos advancement through in six month aren't going to enjoy the program very much. As a SM and a CM, I would suggest to just a reasonable goal of earning the AOL because that award carries over into the Troop. If your son is ambitious, then you might consider the Webelos award as well. But I sure would make sure he is first having fun. When your son looks 20 years back on his Webelos experience, how do you want him to reflect on the experience? I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>I don't reckon a single one of us would suggest that the SPL handbook and the 3-hour TLT and an admonition to follow them is enough for our youth to be successful.

>>But the very focus of the Methods are to positively affect character, citizenship and fitness. so how could the use of the Methods not have a positive result if applied correctly?

Yes, just work with the District and council, they are very helpful. Barry

>>It is not that I did not answer Lauwit's questions. It is that the questions he poses are largely unrelated to the Uniform METHOD.

>> Unfortunately nothing that has been discussed in the thread to this point has the slightest thing to do with the Uniform Method.

>>Why be angry over a requirement? That seems very 'over the top'. I can understand simply not caring for it or not understanding its use as a requirement...but angry?

>>Could it be that the Uniform Method is the easiest to judge our success?

This may be too close, but Kwahadi Kiva Indian Museum in Amarillo. They charged us a dollar per scout way back when. Im sure the price is still a bargin. Very nice. http://www.kwahadi.com/hostel.htm Then there is Korshar Indian Museum in La Junta Colorado. One dollar/scout and good cheap food as well. But their Fancy Dancer program $1.00 is as good as any Fancy Dance you will see from Tribes in Oklahoma. And, it is all done by Boy Scouts. La Junta is in South East Colorado just east of Pueblo. http://kosharehistory.org/koshare/summerscouts.html Have a great trip. I know that is great hike. Barry

>>Of course he says he does, so I tell him to put it on, he is now an Eagle! They try to give it back say no they haven't earned it yet. NOW we can talk can get talk about what they are getting out of Scouts, not just pieces of cloth with colorful thread, but expierences, skills and fun.

Hi All >>Ed, you sound like a broken record. How about telling us WHY this should not be part of the Scouting program and WHY it should not be part of advancement. Make a case for your position.

>>On the hat issue, I would much rather be approached and informed that I was possibly not aware of the practices of the house of faith I was in than to be allowed to continue to offend those whose practices I was violating. Especially since continuing to violate them reflects poorly on both myself and my Troop and the BSA -