Eagledad

>>The obvious conclusion is that they mainly car camped then too. The menu plans seem to support this with pounds of flour and raw bacon and lots of can goods.

I was just thinking that our PLC meetings were closed meetings. We have weekly meetings instead of monthly, but the SM and an ASM are the only two adults allowed in the meeting unless one got permission from the SPL prior to the meeting. I cant remember a scout who shouldnt be in the meeting ever wanting to be in a meeting, so I cant say we restricted it from them as well. But reading Schiffs post, I was reminded how we taught our SPLs to run the meetings the same as the troop CC. Our SPL was required to have a final agenda ready the night before for the SM and Patrol leaders. I taught our SPL and participants at JLTC that the SPL should know every subject that was to be discussed and have it on his agenda. If any surprise subjects pop up during the meeting, they were to be given to someone who would deal with it during the week and report on it next week. OK, I know this is off the topic, but I can say that 90 percent of the scouts who attended our JLTCs had terrible meeting skills. And almost none of them used agendas in their meetings even though examples are given in the SPL Handbooks. Our JLTC particpants had written at least 12 or more agendas before they left our four day course. I always wondered why the adults weren't teaching agendas when surely they were using them in their own meetings. Barry

>>That said, we allow all parents, as observers only, to attend our committee meetings. If some special circumstance exists, such as in Barry's example, we don't necessarily deal with it on a committee level but possibly on a subset of the committee and Scoutmaster.

>>I know of Eagle Board members who consider themselves Horatius at the Bridge to keep "atheists" from becoming Eagle Scouts.

>>It is an important difference.

>>our kids today instead of learning to be self sufficent would rather escape into a fantasy world of their own making. As Eamonn stated,scouting will become irrelevant to our youth unless we can find a way as a society to reverse this trend rather than feeding into it.

Hi All I sit here in ah reading these threads listing hypothetical scenarios intended to justify different approaches adults want to take with their program. Hey, Im all for thinking out of the box to fulfill noble visions. But supporting philosophy with hypothetical worse case scenarios and suggesting they are typical of all most troops is not a respectful approach for selling a plan. Oh Im sure there are units with some of these problems or situations, but many of us with been there done that T-Shirts know they are not typical. Now if you want to justify changes to fix or improve your own program, well that is just good managing of a scout program. But you need to understand that after doing this awhile, one begins to realize that in the big picture of youth programs, It doesnt matter if yours is the BP scouts, the Girl Scouts, Best Scouts, Conservative Church scouts, liberal Church scouts or the BSA. A good adult leader will get the same level of performance from any program because they understand the dynamics of how boys grow and they can use those dynamics to work with in the procedural restrictions of any youth program to reach the same level of performance. There is no youth program rigid enough to prevent an adult from making their unit adult run, or visa versa. How the adults work with the boys determines the quality of performance, not the designed program structure. When we understand that, we can stop trying to prop up our epiphanies by putting down all the others. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>My second area of expertise is in the old west and the westward migration. I have been told that I am an expert in this area. But I don't see any merit badges where I can apply my knowledge.

>>I can't understand why you would even want to tell a parent, "No, you can't come to this committee meeting. It is private."

In general, the only way to fill a lot of positions is to personally recruit. My experience is you risk liability from someone who got hurt falling out of their chair while sleeping as you explain the positions on the list and the need for help. I found people have a hard time saying no when you are looking at them strait in the eyes while asking for their help. Make sure while you beg that you explain clearly that their job won't require much of their time, but it will help out their sons program a lot. If you are not good at personal recruiting, then find someone who is and work together like a salesman. But I believe personal to person recruting is your fastest method to filling a lot of slots. Barry

>>And why those $50 hiking boots from Target aren't going to do the job.

The worst crew experience I heard was from the crew coming off the trail as we were getting on. That crew had eight days of snow, rain and hail and the daily temps hung around 60 degrees. Other than it was raining when we passed that crew, we never saw another drop of rain our 10 days on the trail and the daily temps were in the 70s. Luck of the draw I guess. Also at 19, your son will be treated as an adult and that has some added benefits. Barry

>>I don't see a need for a functioning SPL until one has 4-5 patrols. Otherwise these boys end up figure-head officers with no responsibilities.

>>It seems to me this is a pretty clear case of 'adding' to the requirements or am I missing something?

>>I was also a Scout in the 60's and a Scout leader since the 1970s The percentage of trained leaders seems to be noticeably less to me.

Yes, yes of course, but I think Scoutingagain was asking the question from a legalist point of view. And I think that is an interesting question. Barry

>>I suspect he meant more that the EBOR process was to confirm the candidate had in fulfilled all the requirements, but I'll let him clarify further if he so desires.

>>packsaddle's comment has me wondering when do questions become too personal, that they cannot be asked at BOR or a scout can decline to answer?

Hi All >>This practice didn't really surprise me, it was attitude of general acceptance as being normal to scouting that bothered me more.

The quotes are in context. You were asked more then once to back off, you instead continued your post at Lisabob or her personal experience. You could have continued the discussion with hypothetical examples. That would have given you a path to the last word and showing respect to the request. When folks ask you to stop, they want you to stop. Your style is consistent in forums. Barry

From Lisabob to Bob White >>Perhaps now, secure in that knowledge, you will be relieved of the terrible burden you apparently feel to bludgeon people left and right with what you think you know.>Perhaps you could share anything in the post that you found inaccuarate. I would be happy to reconsider any point that you can refute with evidence from LisaBob's posts or my own.

I don't know that you will be able to sort this out all that quickly. I felt the same as you are describing when I retired as the Scoutmaster. That was after knowingly preparing myself for a year to step back and let another very fine person take my place. It just hurts. Barry

This is a lot of fun for everyone. Set out the ingredients and let everyone choose what they want in their omelet. A few suggestions are wait until the water just starts to boil then turn the heat down just a notch. Waiting for it to boil shortens the cooking time. Folks tend to get in a hurry standing there holding the bag of breakfast, so they throw the bags in too early making breakfast take a lot longer. And dont let the bags touch the side of the pot if you can, depending on the metal, the bags can melt. However it seems like the newer bags arent as much of a problem. Our scouts would attach the bags to a dowel rod or clothes hanger laid across the pot using clothes pins. You can also do this with paper bags set close to the fire. But it is trickier and you might go hungry if your bag was to close. I have a friend who is toxicologist who says boiling a plastic doesnt bother him; it is the microwaving where they see problems. He said a person would have to cook all their meals in plastic bags until into their 60s to possibly have a reaction. Because of that, we encourage the scouts to not put plastic in microwaves on campouts. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

I think it is important to visit a typical troop meeting, not a meeting planned or intended for guest. I like to call the SM the night before. I like the Webelos to hang with the scouts and the adults to tour the program with the SM. I think three basic questions will give you plenty of information to ask the follow on questions. What is your goal for my son in this Troop? Why is that the goal? How does your program get him there? I think that choosing a troop is a team decision with the parents and son.When I was a Cub Master, I would interview Webelos leaving the pack asking them why they choose the troop they choose. Many times the answer was they had the best game at the end of the meeting. We need to ask the scouts a lot of questions to get them talking and thinking about many aspects of the program the experienced. Barry

>>"In fact as I think about it I more than lightly would let him know during the first interview that he wasn't doing a very good job and wasn't doing much to help himself. Maybe going as far as to ask him to leave the room for a moment and restarting everything again! "