Eagledad

>>We are all animals and thus we wish to procreate with the fittest and we wish to survive. Working together, getting along, etc have little to do with those urges. Criminal behavior (that will often refer to as base) is more close to our innate behavior. Thus, the key to the other laws is a sense of reverence. I do not think that the program would be the same without the 12th point.

>>He may start planning his court of honor but must wait until the certificate arrives before scheduling it. But as of right now, YOU ARE AN EAGLE SCOUT! Well done man!

>>Stosh - I hate top throw water (!) on your Whitewater canoeing example of a patrol activity, but don't forget the first point in Safety Afloat is "Qualified Adult Supervision", someone over 21 accompanying the group in a 1:10 ration.

>>I also wonder if pack and Beavah and yes, me too, might take greater offense at this in large part because we work in fields where freedom of expression and freedom from censorship are highly prized cultural practices in their own right, regardless of the content.

I'm sorry, what was the question? Barry

>>I think that about the only thing that other scout traditionalists and I don't match up exactly on is the principle of Servant Leadership. I am under the premise that SL is the basic building block upon which leadership is built and not just "part of" a bag of magic tricks that teach leadership skills.

>>Your focused on the lie when the focus should be on the inappropriate action by the group.

>> In both the NYLT matter and the NESA lifetime member knot, National's solution has been: "Gee, let's give away a bauble incentive." That's bribery, imo.

>> Must admit the chance to spit off a lighthouse would be mighty tempting to any boy

>>Plus who is brave enough to sit as the judge.

>>Our Troop used NYLT as a requirement to serve as PL or SPL. It worked better than an age or Rank filter because when I noticed a Scout with potential, I could move heaven and earth to get him to NYLT, thereby entering him in the small pool of candidates. Lazy and self-centered Scouts never got around to going.

>>Now this is just wrong! If this was the only thing holding the Scout back from having his BOR, there is a big problem in the unit!

I certanly understand the the excitment of scouts who staff NYLTs. When I was the Council JLT Chairman (In Beaver's Council by the way) we were developing what was then our council leadership development (JLTC) ladder that funtioned as one of the stepping stones in the whole BSA Junior Leadership Development Program. The steps went something like this: 1. Den Chief Training DCT First Year Scouts 2. Unit Leadership development experience 11 thru 14 years old 3. JLTC Senior Leadership Level Training (Minimum age 14) 4. JLTC Staff Unit JASM Development Training 5. NJLIC at Philmont Training for JLTC Youth Course Directors The objective was to encourage a specific purpose for each step of leadership development. We were trying to train the Scoutmaster how each step worked so that they could continually push their scouts to another level as they matured with experience. Staffing the Council JLT course is almost perfect for JASM development because the youth staff is trained to observe and teach the scouts leadership skills. It is also a great place to learn how to mentor or coach. Something that takes time and practice when the adults let their scouts do it. The ladder allowed us a way to present the Scoutmasters wiht expectations of what to do with their Scout when the course was done. We clearly advertised to each SM that any scout who graduated from JLTC should plan, teach and lead ALL Troop JLT courses. We advertised that any Scout who staffed a JLTC course had the level of training to be a JASM. And we even specified the skills they should be allowed to perform in the troop. One of the reason Scoutmasters struggle with council JLT training is because they dont know what the scout learned. So they dont know where to let the scout lead. We required a unit adult to attend the last four hours of the JLTC course so we could instruct them on the very thing. If the unit couldnt commit an adult to the training, their scout couldnt participate because it was a waste of time. As far as I know, we never had a single troop decline because of that. In fact, some troops actually like the adult training part so much; they sent more adults to the next JLTC even if they didnt have a scout in the course. The last thing we did was have the adult and the scout sit down together. There they created a plan to how the scout was going to use his new skills for reaching his goals that he wrote during the week. I know our Council doesnt run the course like that anymore. But, I can certainly understand why scouts who staff these courses are different when the come back, and want to repeat the experience several times. I would like to add, once a scout has staffed two council courses, he needs to go to Philmont. Scouts who came back from Philmont were outstanding in every way. That is why they became Course Directors in our council. Good stuff. Barry

>>Barry, don't tell me you think that the twin cities police are not likewise spending large amounts of money in preparation for the Republican convention. Any big gathering attracts its share of shouting idiots. Balancing 1st amendment rights against public oder has never been an easy task but let's not delude ourselves into thinking that either party's followers (or detractors) are, as a group, more well-mannered than the other.

>> If you believe you are right, sometimes you have to keep shouting from the rooftops even if everyone ignores you.

>> You say it's a sin. I just don't see the logic there.

>>Barry, a BOR gains the fact that a Scout has respect and cares about the wishes of the BOR when he wears his uniform (if requested) and shows disrespect and a cavalier attitude if he does not (or memory loss, or poverty, or .. - the BOR can usually figure out which).

Ignoring all the "shoulds", shall dos and what we want to dos, Why should a scout wear the uniform to a BOR? In your minds, what does the board members gain from it and what does the scout gain? Barry

>>Barry, I earned my beads the same way you probably did, and my "normal" son is a project and a couple MB's away from his Eagle. So, to assume I don't understand the way the program works in practice is snipe droppings...

>>There's no reason you can't find someone willing to make a similar commitment in Scouting.

>> When it comes to challenged kids, I no longer see scouting as inclusive as the organization thinks it is.

>>So let's not lie to kids and parents for the sake of some long past tradition. If the child has a need, hand the scout a cell phone and let him talk to his parents.

We used to plan a yearly agenda of one Pack meeting and one Pack outing each month. Example of our typical yearly pack outing agenda was: Sept- Pack Campfire October - Roller Skate rink November - Food Drive December - Caroling January - Science Museum Lockin February - Blue and Gold March - Pinewood Derby April - Pack Camp out May - Ice cream Feast June - Cubmoble races (No Pack meeting) July - Picnic (No Pack meeting) August Swimming (No Pack meeting) We planned an outing every mont h to help the ease the Den Leader Program. When I was at my best, the Pack meeting generally went 55 minutes of nonstop laughing, singing, yelling, and showing off. That was for a pack of 100 scouts. Got to go start the grill. Barry

I have to agree about changing up your meetings a little. Some troops wear troop t-shirts in the summer. Different meeting places is a great idea. Keep the troop meeting to prep for the campouts. AND, plan fun campouts. Lets all throw out a few theme ideas. Triathlon campout where the troop has to pull up stakes in the morning and bike, hike and canoe to another campsite several miles away. Think about the training for meetings like preparing the bikes and taking a few small bike trips. Or, canoing at a local lake to practice strokes and loading gear. A troop night camporee. Get the troop ready to competetions at night after the campfire until early early in the morning. How about a night backpacking trip. Fishing. Spend a few troop meetings learning how to fly fish or make your own bait. This is a start, what about others? Oh I love this scouting stuff. BArry But, lets thi

>>Let me just say that this is "wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong..." Any Scout, at any time, can ask the Scoutmaster (directly) for a Scoutmaster Conference - for rank, or any other purpose. A Scout Troop is not a corporate office, where the "lower ranks" have to go through a chain of command to speak with the "guy at the top" (which, BTW, in a Scout Troop isn't an adult - it's the SPL).