Eagledad

>>Clearly, Rush never wore a scout uniform.

>>Barry, it's not about comparing mission statements and doing a "mine is bigger" check>The most incredible display of Esprit d'Corps I've ever seen was at a rehearsal of the OSU marching band. Any unit, scouting, military, varsity team, band or otherwise, would probably see a display like that and have chills running down their spine.

>>I've had the personal thought for some time that our council needs to tap the lodge as a resource for helping run the youth leadership training.

>>but I would still point out that Scouting doesn't have a monopoly on those and doesn't have a "moral high ground" in owning those values.

>>So what I'd like to ask you is to support your statement. Why do you think that Scouting is far and away better? You haven't really given a reason why you believe the way you do. I feel, as others have pointed out, that Scouting doesn't have a monopoly on certain values. In fact, the very first lecture I received on integrity came from my junior high school band director, delivered to our entire band. Integrity, leadership development, teamwork, citizenship, character development (I could probably run through the entire set of aims and methods)...those kinds of things pop up all over the place. As a youth, I really appreciated the "outward boundness" of my troop's high adventure experiences because I learned that despite being a non-athletic kid, I had no physical limits that weren't imposed by my own brain. I would think a good coach would be able to foster that same thing with young athletes. Thanks... Guy

>>It will be interesting to watch how FoxNews transitions from the equivalent of Pravda (a propaganda tool of the administration) to the equivalent of AlJazeera (the opposition voice).

>>As a Scouter, I personally would not want to make a Scout's choices more difficult by placing constraints.

>>Could the same be applied to the avowed gay? Can't go camping, but maybe serve in some other function where their pedophilic ways wouldn't threaten the youth?

>>However, there is a ring of truth to it. The right wing scream machine is going to use every little misstep and misspeak to try to build a case for impeachment. Its all they got, so can you really blame them?

>>One of the most popular threads on Sean Hannity's forum has over 7000 posts concerning the birth certificate conspiracy theory.

>>And really, does scouting really give most boys that much "better direction for the rest of their lives"? Some of this is wishful thinking on our parts; a perception not necessarily shared by many scouts or their parents.

>>I truly wonder what the thoughts may be on this, or if the usual combatants are too shallow to address it.

>>The issue is that Kudu is proposin' that a central piece of the program he envisions is a SM who has the skill, talent, and listening ability to recognize the innate talents in each boy and to steer 'em into positions through direct mentoring.

Well you guys can count on me to be as fair with Obama and give him as much respect as the Democrats and liberals have given Bush. Im there for ya. As for Colmes and Hannity, IMHO, they are both loud mouth extremist that only appealed to the emotions of their viewers. They werent voices of logic even when they balanced each other. Ive been watching these programs for quite a long time and Frankly, I feel the day of attempting balanced political discussions ended the day that David Brinkley retired. I would like to say cable news political commentary and discussion are all junk, but National Networks are no better. So, we are left to seek out balance in other media venues. Good luck to that. Barry

>>I think the idea of taking "strangers" of boys and tossing them into a patrol would be good for a Junior Leader Training Camp, but not for a campout.

>>Yah, I think yeh need to give some pointed feedback to your council folks, eh?

If I may eghiglie, I think you are asking the wrong question. You should be asking; How do I get my scouts to be more efficient with their time?. The answer is agendas and schedules. Scouts need targets and goals to shoot for. All the other replies are good except they dont include the motivation to change. The agenda is the most important tool a SM can give scouts so they can develop independence, planning skills, creativity and spontaneous reorganization. I learned at our JLTC that only about 10% (give or take) of the SMs in our district teach using agendas. Dont blame the BSA because agendas are in SPL Handbook and the SM Handbooks. The scouts who attended our JLTC course wrote at least 24 agendas and schedules through the course. Our SPL writes an agenda for every meeting that he leads. That means he writes one pre-troop PLC meeting agenda, a troop meeting agenda, and a post Troop PLC meeting agenda every week. The post PLC meeting agenda is pretty easy and written during the troop meeting. We also expect a Campout agenda or schedule for the Patrol Leaders, SPL and SM before we leave the church to our campout. The SM will hold the SPL to item on the schedule. In that schedule includes the troop assemblies after each meal. That is on purpose so that the scouts have fit their business inside the schedule. How do we do this. I follow the agenda to the T. The adults will walk to the assembly area on time. If the rest of the troop is late, well the SPL has to account for that. Eventually he will get tired of being imbarrased. Summer camp is a great place to teach agendas. Let the SPL take the troop to camp assembly and if he is late, well you get to see how he adjust. But their nothing like a Dozen other troop watching your troop came in late. The hard part for you is not to take it personally or say anything. You might that night ask the SPL if he intends to do something different. Heres the thing, how does anyone stay organized without an agenda or schedule? The reason the scouts take so long to cook is because they can. Does your troop wait for them, or do they assemble at the time marked on the SPLs agenda or schedule? When a patrol is allotted a certain amount of time to do a task and they cant make it, they have to change. Our Troop has a PLC meeting 1 hour before every troop meeting. The scouts have to complete that meeting before the meeting so the SPL can start the troop meeting ON TIME. They didnt do it at first, but they changed and improved. The SPLs also learn how important and agenda is because typically chaos follows when they try to go from memory. And the clock hold the SPL accountible. All the SM has to do is ask for a copy of the agenda and ask later what happened. Your troop will become a slave to the clock. That is a good thing. It will take some time for your SPLs and scouts to develop the discipline of that annoying agenda. But, once they do get use to it, then allow them to not use it and they will beg to use it next time. Agendas really help scouts do their jobs. They will see them as maps. And it will carry over into their adult lives. My wife still comments how I am always trying to improve my routine to save time and get more done. I got that from boy scouting. Oh, one other thing, Rosters. I dont know why but those are things are not use much today, but rosters are how you develop loyalty in patrols. When scouts see in writing that everyone will eventually be a cook or KP, they dont balk, they just do their job. Rosters work better is the PL can write them before they leave for camp. But, just get the PL use to posting a roster at the beginning of camp so he doesnt have to nag his scouts. If the Agenda or Schedule says Troop Assembly 8:00am. The cooks know they have get up and be finished cooking in time to give the KP guys time to get their job done. Or, this might be a discussion item on the SPLs agenda at the tonights PLC meeting. By the way, as a SM when you see that they are mastering their time pretty good, it is time to change the rules a little: Like not using paper plates to save time. You want them to get better at organizing, so suggest that the patrol start using real plates that have to be cleaned. When they master that, add another kink. You may think I was mean, but I had set in guidelines that every breakfast and dinner had to be cooked. But, our troop got good enough that they could break camp and be ready to for final troop assembly to load the cars within 45 minutes. That was 60 scouts working together as a team for 45 minutes. Took away to get there, but I remember when it happened, an ASM leaned over and said it was time to add another kink. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>Isn't having the leadership skills needed to get a job done more important than teaching skills that might only be used by a number of the participants?

>>Sure they are. If you can not discuss Scouting topics like Baden-Powell's 100 yard distance between Patrols, then discredit the idea by attempting to discredit the person.>I suspect that male obesity is THE primary force supporting the "re-invention of Boy Scouts."

Observations are not personal attacks and humility is the greatest trait that a boy can witness from his mentor. Barry

That was a personal poll I took for about three years in my Scoutmaster Specific Course and two Wood Badge courses. I'm one of those kinds of people that when I see a trend that needs to change, I try something new. I was catching a lot of heat from District for requiring all the SM Specific participants bring a SM Handbook. So I started polling with the intention of proving how much difference using the Hand book made. Well I was shocked by the numbers. I couldnt prove it made any difference because nobody was reading it. I will say the 5% who did read the whole handbook were typically very good leaders and they also read a lot of other material from sources like Baden Powell. They were also more educated and had professional jobs. So, I made a change. I quit requiring all my Scoutmaster Specific participants bring a SM Handbook except the Scoutmasters and Committee Chairs. I only required them to make sure they had one, I didnt care if they read it. Instead, I personally give each SM in my course a copy of the SPL Handbook, and Patrol Leaders Handbook and had them promise me that they would read them that night. Truth of the matter is the SM Handbook doesnt give a new Scoutmasters all that much than the Scout Handbooks to get a program rolling. And most adults can read both PL and SPL Handbook inside an hour. I encouraged every participant except committee members get a copy of the SPL and PL Handbooks. At around $ 8.00 each, I could only afford to give Scoutmasters free copies. My wife would go through the roof if she knew how much I spent during those years. Lets keep that between us. I started then and have since taught that if the adults guided the program using the SPL and PL handbook along side the scouts using those handbooks, they couldnt go wrong. I dont teach now, but I still forward that suggestion when I can, like here on the forum. 300 feet coming from someone who sounds angry at the world will go nowhere, but reading about patrol method along side a scout clears the fog. So is that a scientific study? Well I am an engineer, a bit of a scientist I guess. So yes, that was a scientific study you can bet your marbles on. Have a great day and good luck to those on Trappers Rendezvous in Kansas. Barry

Hi All I used to teach my scouts that your true character is how you would act when nobody is looking. I like to monitor scouting forums because scouting is my passion. But I also glance at other forums for various reasons and it seems like there is a trend that folks are getting down right rude and obnoxious. I even see more of it here on this forum where I think folks behavior would be at a higher standard. It got me wondering that maybe we are seeing the character of people of when they feel nobody is looking? Are folks starting to think it is OK to see the worst of them because we cant see their face? I use to really enjoy the new computer technology because it allowed us to spread information faster and farther. But now Im not so sure it is worth the baggage it brings with it. I have always dreamed that maybe someday I would be invited to a reunion of sorts for the Scouters of Scouters.com. And I would hope that folks would look forward to meeting me as much as I would certainly look forward to meeting you. But are their some folks who would rather I just skip the reunion because I exposed some character that I wouldnt have done in person. I sure hope not. Barry

I cant express the pride I feel for you folks when reading these post. Its what makes me love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>he confesses he has no outdoors other than how to program a Garmin, would any version of the elder Wood Badges have taught him in 6 days all the skills he needs?

If PETA mock the LDS, then is it ok to mock PETA? I have no respect for PETA, they openly support domestic terrorism for their cause. That is not very scout like. Barry