Eagledad

Yes, we went from 12 first year scouts to 40 total in one year as well. I agree that it is very challenging. Barry

I had 16 Webelos and divided them up into two groups. Made the meetings better because we would have to activities going on at each meeting and have the groups switch after 20 or 30 minutes. Keeps the boys busy. I would suggest two 1.5 hour meetings a month because it is really challenging to plan a meeting with 2 groups without feeling hurried. You can easily fill the hour and half. The one day off a month lets you recharge your batteries and do more planning. I had it easy selecting the two groups because my scouts came from two Bear Dens. But I would suggest that you first have them pick the friends they want to stay with, then go from there. But in truth, it doesnt matter because even though they are in two groups, the den was always doing activities together. So they never really felt detached. Its different from patrols, but kind gets them into the idea of patrols. Hope that helps. Barry

>>If the boys start out together (NSP) and stay together, then when they become 14 (presumably at roughly the same time), their patrol can become a venture patrol, and they maintain thier unity.

>>It would seem that after three years they really weren't interested in the program/advancement and were in it just to hang out.

Well looking at it in this context, I think I served the parents. I know I could care less about the CO. I use to tell parents that my job was to help better equipe their son for the day when he gets up in the morning to find his wife too sick to get out of bed, their babies crying to be fed, and his boss calling to find out why he wasn't at work. Barry

>>I think when the PLC gets ready for our next annual planning conference, I will suggest each PL ask each patrol member to think about what would be their best trip ever to go on, and suggest that. I don't think we've ever phrased the question in that manner. I look forward to seeing what they come up with.

>>Senior scouts that have to go to the same summer camp they have for 5 times earlier just because their numbers are unable to out-vote the troop will simply drop out of the program..

>>We all survived the evening without any DT's.

There are some minor risk involved that are being presented here, but if you know of some churches that want a troop and possibly expanding the scouting program, I would go for it. I been involved in few of these things and if the DE thinks it is a good idea, it is very likely the right thing to do. In my experiences, threatening to leave was a wake up call to the CO and they changed their attitude toward the scout units. BArry

Maybe I had some control about adult behavior, but I have personally only asked three adults to get out. Each case was a different circumstance, but I acted in each case because I felt the boys were in danger. For alcohol problems, I have asked two parents, one cub and one boy scout, to not volunteer for any unit activities. Both parents got professional help after. I did not suggest it. I know of one SM ask by council to leave scouting after he was caught offering a beer to a scout. That comes under stupid people tricks to me. But, as the District Membership Chairman, I suggested the Troop committee get rid of him for other types of behavior with other adults in his troop. It was silly to me that it took the beer thing to get rid of him. I would never ever even consider the idea that obesity be an issue to scouting. I'm still in shock that we even suggest it on this forum. As for cussing, I just plan did not allow it by anyone. I personally just find it offensive by anyone and I never really had any problems with it. Barry

I just had and interesting conversation with a couple of friends who are in business for themselves. They are not millionaires by any means, but do well when the oil business is doing well. They are also diversified in other things to ride through the slow oil times. I just saw them walking by at a local coffee shop and said hello. We talked about kids for a few minutes and then I asked a question really just in passing, when are you expecting the oil prices to change?. Boy, that got them going and I didnt get another word or opinion in the conversation because they just started talking and couldnt stop until they got a call that pulled them out. In short, they see the present political environment hostel toward the oil industry and they are looking to get out. They have shut down their operations because oil is cheap right now, but they dont see waiting until the price gets up again because they feel the government will go after them in taxes and restrictions. They have other businesses as well but are downsizing because they think the present stimulus plan only helps unions and isnt being applied in the areas where they could be of the most benefit. They are diversifying their assets in businesses where they dont have to hire a lot of people and can get out quickly if thing dont do well, real estate being one. These guys are very interesting to me because they have been in oil since 1970s surviving through the ups and downs. Now they are jumping out. I also talked to my dad this morning who called to ask me some questions about starting a new business. He is a very liberal democrate and only wears Obama T-shirts, but is frustrated with the current stimulus bill because it is scaring away anyone who might want to consider helping him start another business. He said there is some aid out there, but it is in the area of medicine and unions. He doesnt want to start up anything that large. We dont talk politics because we are so different in our opinions, but if the democrats are scaring their most liberal supporters, we might be in for some interesting times. What I am gathering is there is a real fear of socialism running over the county and small business folks are scared. My dad has always been in favor of socialism, but I dont think he saw it in the business industry, but more in health care and retirement. The one business group that seems to think it will work in their favor are the accountants. But even they are starting to be more regulated. I think what surprising me most is how fast Im seeing all this happen. Barry

>>There's nothing in the requirement that states that the POR has to be at troop level with scribe, librarian, historian, quartermaster, etc. It does specifically state for some POR's but not all.

I would council the SPL to build the best team possible and then help advise him on what he comes up with from that. Rank and advancement should not be of any concern to him because that doesn't help him or his team. As to a Web Master, I only suggest getting your needs taken care of. If you need a good Web Master, go for it, our troop 90 scouts had two. But they worked hard and were better leaders after the experience. My objective with and kind of leadership responsibility was that the scout grew from the experience. I feel that every leadership opportunity should be a stepping stone toward eventually becoming a SPL, or even a SM. Most of our SPLs were really good leaders by the time they got that job. For me, SPL was the next step in learning how to delegate resposibilities and manage new ideas into the whole troop program. You need scouts who have a lot of experience at quality leadership responsibilities to do that. This is really good stuff and a great learning experience for you. I hope you are enjoying it. Barry

Remember your main goal is building men of character. I think you should shift your thinking that PORs are for developing better decision makers through the practice of using leadership skills. They are not to advance a scout's stature. Yes, I know they need it for advancement, but once you start down that trail, its hard to get back, especially with the parents. Scouts should have to earn the respect of leadership so they are chosen to lead, not given it to get another badge. I also think you are risking becoming a trophie kind of program. Create PORs when they are needed and get rid of them when they aren't. I find that SPLs are actually better at that than adults because they like to manage as small as team as they can, where as adults tend to think advancement. Here is what I did, I would ask the SPL to assign small temporary duties to the younger scouts to give them experience in leadership responsibilities, and exposure so that they may get elected or picked for a POR. These duties were something like a leader for the Scouting For Food drive. I assigned an adult to assist them in planning the event, presenting it to the PLC at a PLC meeting, making announcements at a troop meeting and then leading the activity. That is a good one because it isn't really a demanding position and we dont really change the way we did it the year before, so the other scouts kind of already know what is going on. So while it is challenging practice in planning and leading for a newer scout, it isnt overwhelming. Typically, I also try to assign a fairly new adult to the adult position so that I can guide them to how adults work in a boy run program. I also think scouts need to prove themselves in patrol duties like cheer master or grub master. I think you will find there are plenty of opportunities for scouts to build a reputation so that they can get a POR and move on. And, doing it that way, you will find those scouts who really want to advance as apposed to the ones just kind of riding along. They need to earn the right to lead. In the long run, your youth leadership team will be much better because they will be respected as leaders, not as the next guy in line needing a sign off a requirement. Good luck, these are fun times for a troop. Barry

We are dealing with the fear of the fear. I have a sister inlaw that work for one of the banks that took the hit, but she saw it coming a year ago. Other then that, most folks we know want to spend money but are unsure because the media keeps saying harder times are a head. I need to replace an old car or consider just a new motorcycle but I can't get comfortable about doing those because of the threat the worse is yet to come. Barry

I would approach it just like adamsdwa listed with doing Lisabobs advise in adamsdwa #1 item. Also keep in mind that scouting is great for boys until the adults get involved. Barry

>>You know, if the Mormon Church wanted to exert a positive influence on this topic......

>>My question is: What do you do with the older boys like me that still want to be active in leadership, but have a job where they can't be at everything and don't want to be in a regular patrol?

Touche Kudu Barry

>>Those children will starve if they are waiting for the Pro-life groups to sweep in and offer to take care of them.

>>In an adult-led program, mixing and matching of patrols may be the traditional course of action, but when it's boy-led and they are making the decisions as to patrol membership, that is not possible.

>>All government can do is make the decision even more difficult and more expensive.

>>Sorry, I just can't get my mind around how scouts can mutiny against their own program? Maybe the question should be: "Is it Okay for boys to take back their program after adults have shanghaied it?"

>>That'll be about 40 boys, most of whom are 11 or 12 years of age. I have only four boys older than that.

>>Why not just take that one boy that IS interested and make him TG/Instructor and quit contriving scenerios that the boys are totally not interested in.