Eagledad

Ah the memories. Those are good times looking back. Hey, at least he is open to advise. My daughter is so much smarter than me that she would be telling me how I don't have a clue. However, I've seen her in action, she will make a square peg fit in a round hole if it kills her. Heaven help those 20 guys that worked at the same time because they WOULD get the job done. I pray for her husband (whoever it will be) everyday. Barry

>>What happened with Canadian scouting and CampFire was not about religion but more about a lack of vision and incompetent management internally.

I'm a little surprised by the negative comments. Maybe its because I have been involved with a similar situations while on the district commitee, but I dont see any evil intent here or some nut wanting to stir the pot. The correct answer is simple, contact the CC and work together with the COR. If there is some disingenuousness motivation here, it will likely get filtered during that process. Council doesnt just casually watch these things happen. Barry

>>You got to be kidding, outside of the LDS church no religious group provides large financial support to the BSA.

Personally I like Spring Webelos Woods better because it gives the Webelos I leaders a chance to see the troops they want to visit next fall. I found that most Webelos IIs dens have already set up their agenda by the time the get to a Fall Webelos Woods. Also, we try to do a little bit of training for the Webelos leaders, which include the Bear leaders, so I think at least the Bear leaders should come. One other thing I think is important is I found when I was on district that Webelos leaders struggle to visit troops because they either don't know who to visit or feel to intimidated. So invite all the Webelos Leaders and troop leaders together to a meet and greet. I called it a tea, but have coffee, cookies, cokes or what ever, but get them mingling together to break the ice and learn names and pass out numbers. Barry

You guys quibble over words that are thousands of years old. They didn't loose there intended meaning then, and they don't now. Our culture may degrade into morale depravity at this time in history, but the bible will remain the same to those who read and follow it to the end of time. Most Christians who really struggle with the text either don't study the bible or are motivated politically. Also the bible supports what it does say about the lifestyle with what it doesn't say. Like; two mommy families or two daddy families. Barry

>>How is that done in your troop or is there no effort on the part of the adults to do so because things are going smoothly with the adults running the show?

I guess I dont understand the question. It appears that we are given the choice of the two extremes when just about all troops work somewhere in the middle. Surely even that adults gets some time to learn from the experience as well. I enjoyed your post Mafaking. There was a time that I sure could sure relate to it. Barry

>>Just to be clear: I don't CARE what the bible says about homosexuality any more than I care what it says about shellfish. It is completely and totally irrelevant and any attempt to argue from it as an authority is vacuous.

Interesting discussion: As I grew with our program, my vision of developing character was always the same, but my methods of Scoutmastering changed. While I trusted at the beginning with the concept that scouting is a game with a purpose, my experience confirmed that scouting REALLY IS a game with a purpose. The game is the easy part because boys by nature will strive for adventure where ever they are. The purpose is the hard part. Maybe Im more anal about developing character than most, but my nature is also measuring performance and making changes to improve. I will say I failed a lot, so I have a lot of experience in how not to as well as how to reach the goals of building character in a camping club type youth program. As I was learning from my humbling failures, I developed ideals that helped me steer the program toward a game with a purpose. Ideals like: -The troop is an arena where scouts practice the Scout Law and Oath. -A troop is the real world scaled down to a boys size. -Boys learn almost everything by watching and doing and almost nothing by listening. -If a boy has to sit and listen, than likely the troop program is doing it wrong. Needing a JLT class became a red flag that we needed to change something. -If what a boy does in the troop doesnt contribute toward practicing some value of character, it doesnt belong in the program. From wearing a uniform to tying a square knot, the scout should be practicing a character value. -To learn something, a person must practice that something. Character is a culmination of knowledge and experience. Each balances the other. -Never say no to a scout. Let the scout pursue it to the end so he can learn why. A troop has to be action oriented as apposed to lecture oriented to develop character. I personally believe that leadership development is one of the best ways for a boy to practice character skills because the intensity of controlling the group is fastest method for him to learn his weaknesses. However, I learned that most leadership skills are learned by age 14 by observing the older scout role models in action. As I said, I was anal about developing character, but I also learned that the more simple the program, the better is was in becoming a Game with a Purpose. To me the developers of the scouting program basically had it right and that we seem to make it harder on ourselves as we added rules, policies, regulations and classes. I am somewhat comfortable that if the adults strive to have an outdoor program and follow the basic plan laid out for them by the BSA, they will have a pretty good character development program as well. Even some of the Eagle Mills have good qualities in their program, they just dont have the impact of a boy run program. Good discussion. Barry

>>Eagledad said that they tried the letter writing method. I think that would be good for one group of older scouts, but for my tigers that would not work. They may be too young and it would possibly take too long to complette the task.

>>Would 4H use push-ups? Debate club? Science club? Student forum? Do public schools? No!

Beav, your troop sounds so much the troop you visited when I was SM. May I suggest you throw in the idea that your scouts learn how to camp light. We went this way to get rid of one of our trailers. Everyone just needs to start using back packing gear. It sounds like something the scouts would hate, but in reality the scouts loved it and the adults hated it. In fact, the adults still brought a lot of gear. As for new parents, I wanted them to come to the first campout because it use that whole weekend to show them a boy run program. No mistery, this is what your son will do every campout. And, this is the campout were every new scout and adult took their totin Chit training from the scouts. The only adults who attended where the adults in training. If that doesn't impress boy run to the parents, nothing will. Barry

>>If you make a scout sit-out an activity as a form of punishemnt, are you not embarrassing them? You are denying them the opportunity to participate.

>>And don't talk about Obama and the Democrats. This was all done under the Bush Corporate Welfare Program. As Beavah noted. Obama's just stuck cleaning up the mess.

>>You are aware that Japanese auto manufacturers get lots of support from their government don't you? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face

>>I love my Suburban. It's great for scout outings and my business. But I'm not sure I'll ever buy another one, because I don't want to subsidize the UAW.

Some parents just need to feel safe with the troop and if the adults at least look organized, that helps. But that is subjective. I have always felt our adults are organized, but since our program is boy led, some parents see our adults talking in a different room from the scouts as disorganized. What I found that concerned parents really want is some feeling that the troop has some kind of plan. Boy run is great on the play ground so long as the adults are watching, but what does it mean when if the adults go take a smoke break, so to speak. As been said already, parents dont understand what boy run means. And from my observation of hundreds of troops over the years, neither do more than 50% of troops. Probably less than that. So they compensate by having the adults always stand around in one way or another. You have to prove to visiting concerned adults that there is a method behind the madness. You have to convince them that you know what you are doing. What is your goal and how are you trying to get there. Whats the big deal with boys leading boys? I mean, what does it really do for their son. I find that Eagle Mills are very inviting for concerned parents because that is an adult run program and typically adult run programs look sharp, very organized and they look SAFE. Eagle mills have a goal, it is to get your son his Eagle, plain and simple. That is not are bad thing for the average concerned parent. Eagles are good, so why not. Boy run programs are more difficult because they look less organized and sloppier. The meetings appear more chaotic and louder. The adults can look sharp, but they seem distracted from the boys and appear less concerned, less safe. So you boy run folks better have you game face on. Why is boy run good for my son? What advantage is boy run over an Eagle Mill? Why is your troop a good choice? And practice a good answer for the Mighty Question that always seem to come up How quickly will my son get his Eagle in your Troop?. What I like about this forum is the number of folks with experience who have developed the wisdom of why. Learn the reason why your boy run troop is good for my son. Learn the Aims and Methods and practice how your program uses the methods to achieve the aims. Knowing the Aims and Methods shows that you arent just making it up as you go along, you are following a plan that Troops have been following for years. Once you have a vision of my son as an adult based from your scouting program, then you can explain why the appearance of chaos in a boy run program is superior over the sharp looking organized Eagle Mill. I use to tell concerned parents that our program is preparing their son for the tough choices they have to mke when they are 30 years old. Oh, and let me add that I agree that the program has to have adventure. Not just for the older guys, but all the scouts. If its fun, they will come. I can think to two mothers who did not like our troop because it didnt sharp enough for them. They both wanted the Merit Badge Mills troop down the street, but their sons insisted they join our troop because it look like a lot more fun. Both boys became Eagles in our troop, and both mothers became committee chairs protecting our boy run program. Great discussion. Im sorry I ran off with the key board again. But I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Beavaher is right, have the scouts start attending the Troop as if they belong in the Troop. We did this a lot and it is no big deal. Do not have them fill out a troop application because if it some how gets turned in, the scout will not get his AOL. In fact I would kindly ask the pack turn in all the scouts paperwork as soon as possible to prevent any confusion. Typically they wait until the Ceremony, but you might offer to help. If you can tell, I've had to help clean up a lot messes in this area. Barry

OK, I'm not savy on this subject, what is twitter? Barry

>>One complaint I get on this is that, with two SPL's a year only one of them gets to plan a Calendar, the other one only gets to carry out the other ones agenda - That MAY be why your Troop does it the way they do.?

>>In my eyes, this is nuts. The PLC has decided to plan a campout to recruit Webelos in October, but the Troop will not even be able to provide the new scouts & parents with a calendar of upcoming events, because the calendar has not even been planed.

Its not a YP problem, but my son is a school teacher and they are instructed to not be a friend or have a friend with any students. I'm not sure why. I do know that Facebook has legal rights (or something like that) to everything put on Facebook pages. Barry

We have two ASPLs and both are responsible for program. They alternate every other month to lead the planning and leadership of all the troop activities. Barry

Everyone are right on and gave excellent advice. I only add that I spent a little more time on character and leadership during my confrences because that is the expectation of Boy Scout. I gave more focus on character during my Star confrence and little more time on Leadership during my Life Confrence. My reasoning was that I held Star Scouts and higher ranks to a higher level performance living of the Scout Law and Oath. The Life Scout is closer to Eagle and generally the older scout with a lot more Leadership Responsiibility. Barry