Eagledad

>>When I think of the Troop I serve, I don't look at 40 odd heterosexuals with a possible 4 homosexuals. They are all scouts. If any of them were to be "caught" in sexual activity either homo or hetero on a camp out, the result would be the same

These things do go in cycles because of changes in staff and learning from experience. Our EBOR is really good and doesn't have the problems discussed here, but I've seen scouts leave our Eagle Project Review Board crying. It only takes a few comments from Scoutmasters for the district to make changes, but I know of one District in our council that takes comments from Scoutmasters as a sign they are doing it right. But, one thing I've noticed across the districts is that most adults in these positions don't have a full understanding of the rules and proceedures as they should. Many got there because that spot needed to be filled with a warm body. This is one area that Council training could help in solving problems. Barry

I also had that Come to Momma meeting and knew if I didnt change a few things, our family scouting expereince wasnt going to be pleasant. Even my kids didnt want to hear scouting come out of my mouth 24 hours day. They set up rules that I wasnt allowed to talk ANY scouting at the dinner table. I was only allowed one hour on the phone per night. I turned down all training staff positions with a promise that I would get involved after I gave up the SM gig as well as being OA representative for our district. I only skipped one campout a year, but I had to pick either Summer Camp or High Adventure every summer. I had to make sure I left a week every summer for our family vacation. That was harder than it sounds for a SM with an active outdoor program. Once I set these rules for myself, Tamara was supportive and we are still married. Watch out with the promises, the week I handed my SM hat over to the other guy, I had a dozen calls to volunteer for staffs and chairmanships. I think I was more busy then than when I was as a SM, but I spent less time on the phone. Barry

>>Yeah, I've been wondering what all the Glen Beck fans think of Beck's statement that McCain would have been a worse President than Obama.

>>We really tried to work with him but his mental health issues were beyond what we could handle. I am upset for him but you have to think about the safety of the rest of the troop.

>>I would ask him to explain to me his understanding of the term Nazi / Fascist / Communist / Socialist. If I found out he is just an idiot who is disrupting Troop meetings with his idiocy, he would no longer be welcome in my Troop.

Camp chairs, the kind with no legs. Because the typical ground in camp is dirt, mud or rocks, that item was missed the most by those who didnt take one. I agree with using waterproof cameras cases or waterproof disposable cameras. You only have about 3 seconds for the really good moose, bear, eagle and other critter shots. Did someone mention bicycle gloves to prevent blisters? The one thing I really liked about Northern Tier over a backpacking trek is taking baths in the lake. I generally took a bath and washed my clothes every other day. Very refreshing in many ways. Barry

Good advice from the others. Good advice from the others. We send a lot of crews to Philmont and found it is inevitable that you will loose scouts and adults because things happen in that length of time, so we recruit alternates as well or a full crew of 14 knowing that not all 14 will get there. We try to get at least 20% of boys and adults alternates and just about every case they got to go. We require they give a deposit like everyone else to show good faith and attend all the training and shake-down outings. If you have to go to other troops to make the numbers, thats OK. Ask the boys to do the recruiting so they get their friends. Do it early enough and everyone bonds before the trip. As for the adults side, 18 year olds count as adults. I like to recruit a couple 18 year olds if I can to go along with a couple of adults 21 and older. The 18 year olds get along well with the youth and still have a lot of fun with adult privileges. The best crew I ever sent the Philmont was our experienced 16 year old crew with two dads who had never backpacked before. The two dads were in the 50s and were the only two adults, but the boys took very good care of them and everyone came back bragging about that wonderful experience. So search out dads who might not likely volunteer and put them with an experienced group of scouts. You have to recruit them early enough to get them trained and comfortable with backpacking. Barry

>>1) The Chair and the Scoutmaster are not cross-talking well-enough about left and right limits. IMO, the Chair does not have the Scoutmaster's back! 2) The Chair, representing the support side, then needs to go to the SPL and PLC and explain the NO answer so the youth can learn. Trust me, the youth will have some tough questions. The Chair needs to be prepared to defend the decision

>>Now, if the SM and CC don't have each others back, there are bigger fish to fry than youth scheduling, and those bigger fish aren't very tasty

>>I know we have discussed it before, but I still want to find ways to empower these scouts to make their own decisions and give them a real sense of ownership in the troop.

>>As for the Scouts in SMT224's Troop, I don't know. They didn't learn that when you make a mistake, you should admit it and try to make things right. They didn't learn that when someone is gracious to you, you should find some way to thank them. I'm afraid they learned that a hard-nosed, stiff-necked attitude will get you what you want, even if it isn't rightfully yours.

Character isn't how one contends with the expected; character is how one contends with the unexpected. I would say your scouts just witnessed great character from the troop's adults. They will take that lesson with them forever. Barry

I would do some research on the subject first. Bullying is a power thing typically at "weaker" victims who can't fight back. I'm told by those who know that it is more common with kids who are bullied in their own life, usually parents of family. That certainly was the case in the few instances I witnessed. How do you change someone who lives in that environment everyday. I've also seen a different kind of bully in a troop program who were not known bullies at school. Those bullies where influenced by adult leaders (parents) in the troop who didn't like certain boys and were very expressive about it at home. We eventually asked one such leader to leave are troop. I can go on and on about how Scouting is an ideal program in the long term for anti-bullying because it is a servant program, but it is not the quick solution you are looking for. In fact I've read where school's approaches to fixing the problem is failing mainly because they are trying to use quick solutions like lectures and words. Again, you can research it to find out. I agree with Lisabob about the schools, at least from my experience with schools in our area, good luck. Barry

I have a lot of good stories of the advantages of wearing a uniform while traveling, but it is also the only adult forced rule while I was the SM. Not that it had to be, most of the boys agreed. We created the rule when I once stopped at a rest stop. They were my scouts, but I saw a very nervous store clerk watch 25 church kids running around in out of the store grabbing snacks and so on. I jokenly said something about it to the clerk and he said the hardest part is not knowing which adults belong to those kids. I realized that store clerks are a lot less nervous when they can identify the adults responsible because they are dressed the same as the kids. And they can identify if the kids belong in the same group. It just being courteous. Barry

Let me start by asking the question of why we dont ask the question of adults getting tired of working with younger scouts? What do the adults do different? Then I would like to propose that older scouts are adults, not boys. I will also point out that a 12 year old boy is a really different person from a 14 or 15 year old man. If the adults are treating the 15 year olds with the same aspect of the 12 year olds, there is going to be problems. I think the BSA attempted to attack the problem with Venture Patrols, but that doesnt help at all because the takes the older scouts away from the troop program, it doesnt enhance it. That is not to say the Adventure patrols arent good for the troop, but they shouldnt be done in a way that it segregates the program. A lot of what causes these problem is the adults give the older scouts the task of working with the younger scouts without the responsibility of accountability. They are basically doing what the adults tell them to do. The older scouts arent being allowed to inject their ideas and solutions to the program the same as the adults, and they arent given the expectation of serving the younger scouts so that they are better scouts when they get older. The older scouts are being sent in as baby sitters and that is not boy run. Here is a few things to remember. Younger scouts learn the most and learn the fastest by watching older scouts in action, not by going to classes. Classes to me include New Scout Patrols. Send the older scout away, and the younger scouts growth slows down a lot. And they don't gain the skills to lead younger socuts when they get older. Older scouts by nature are very servant oriented when they are given independent responsibility. I have found that scouts 14 and younger are terrible troop guides. I never had a good one. On the other side, I find that 16 year old and older scouts are great troop guides. Ive never had a bad one. The difference is puberty. Young scout by nature are self serving because that is an instinctive protection mechanism. Let the younger scouts watch and learn from the olders scouts, not the adults. Older scouts need to really run the program so the younger scouts learn by watching. In general, give older scouts a stake in their responsibility for the troop performance and you find a scout who wants to work as an adult. I find that scouts teamed up with an adult can do great thing provided the adult doesnt try to dominate the team. The adults should take the approach as advisor and cheer the scout to lead new ideas. I found that scouts have great ideas and dreams, but they aren't use to adults letting them act out on those ideas and dreams. And yes, we adults are terrible at letting them try because we can't stand failure. But working as a team can change that. Isnt that what we adults do anyways. At one point in our program 40% of our scouts where 14 and older. I once took a poll and found that most of those scouts liked the idea of joining a High Adventure Patrol, but had no interest in the high adventure part of the patrol activities. They just wanted an identity of being something different than the 12 year olds. If you really want to get the older scouts more engaged, they are going to have to be welcomed as adults but the adults. Its not easy, it takes practice and a significant attitude change by everyone. A good start is pulling in the older scouts in with the adults and ask the group for new idea to make the troop more fun for all the scouts. The SM will have to keep interjecting the responsibilities of the program like teaching scouts skills and working with the new scouts. But eventually, the team will try some new ideas. The older scouts and the adults will work together to make the program better for all the scouts. Barry

Well I read the post as a little humble bragging. And rightfully so, you worked very hard to pull the troop up to this place. Weve all seen your blood, sweat and tears as the forces seem to work against you even when you knew you were doing it right. Oh, I know you questioned yourself now and then, but you had it pretty much right all along. I think the boys feel it too, and they dont want to lose that ground they worked so hard to get. But like the adults, the scouts will find out that growth is more about learning from the failures than celebrating the gains. Still, even with all that, they still have a Scoutmaster they can count on, and a troop that is fun despite the growing pains. In all its inconsistency, the boys will still find that Scouting is the one thing they can still count on in their lives. Yep, it will be an interesting year, but you all earned it. Barry

I was responding to CalicoPenn's statement about being raised by scientific parents. Barry

>>So I was hoping that there was something more to the concept. Perhaps someone can elaborate?

Prayer is positive thinking. Beary

>> There is no heaven, there is no hell, there is no divine intervention. Storms are just storms, floods are just floods, fires just fires, god has nothing to do with anything that happens. I gave been immeasurably happy since I realized this.

You will get a good jump start by getting the scouts the SPL Handbook and the Patrol Leader handbook. Those books are pretty good, but you need to get them and read them as well so that you aren't guiding in conflect of the books. In fact, I think you can almost tell them to go by the book and they won't need much help at first. Most of the answers for the boy running a basic program are in those two books. Typically its the adults who don't read the books that get in the way. Barry

>>Two years latter, we still suffer from the bad reputation we earned, it's tough to overcome something like that.

>>>>I've got 14 years of unit leader experience,

Some folks just cant get past their own world to see the big picture. There is a lot more room for different ideas and methods than just their one size fits all type of scouting. Or maybe they just dont have good personal skills, who knows? Still, you have to be somewhat picky on the suggestions you choose because Ive done this long enough to recognize that some folks style of forcing scouts to be boy run is not the same as guiding them to grow boy run. I personally think you are doing a pretty good job Eagle732 and both the parents and scouts should be proud to have you as their troop adult leaders. What I think some of the folks are saying is dont get stagnant and be satisfied with the program you have, keep it growing. Boys change, so your program has to change. Not a lot at once and not to fast, but your troop should have some differences next year because your boys are more mature. Guide it so that it keeps becoming more Boy Run next week, next month and next year. If you dont, then your 16 year old scouts may get bored with a 14 year old program. Dont be afraid to constantly evaluate your troop and make changes so that there is a place for all the scouts. Its not easy, but very rewarding. There are a lot of good ideas here (and not so good), just keep asking and then pick the good ones that fit your style of leadership and your troops program. I think for most of us, we just want to help you love this scouting stuff. Barry