Eagledad

>>As one who respects your opinion, Barry, I would be interested to hear what dramatic changes you would suggest.

>>A very interesting theory indeed and not without some merit.

>>To think that this constriction in easily accessible and maintainable charter relationships didn't have a negative impact on growth is to say the least, fascinating.

>>Of course today's cubs are tomorrows Boy scouts

>>But also I think the current social conservative bent the BSA (and its major chartering partners) project is becoming increasingly distasteful to younger parents.

Lots of good answers given already. I would like to see a break down of the drops. My personal opinion is the Cub side of the program was getting too heavy and complicated for the average volunteer to maintain. The drops were indicative of that just a few years ago. The first year of the Boy Scout program is traditionally the biggest lose of scouts for all ages, so there is no surprise there. But I wonder if there are any dramatic changes of trends on the Boy Scouts side. I know there was on the Cub side. I have always thought the National would see the light and try to lighten the Cub program so the volunteers weren't working so hard, but the opposite has been the case. Just follow the Tiger program changes alone and you can see the increase of volunteer time required to maintain a quality program. Barry

Its not the 3Gs, several youth organizations in North America over the past 25 years have veered left with more liberal politically policies and their number decreased dramatically. None of them maintained their numbers or increased. While a few here would like to think otherwise, the youth scout programs community is basically conservative. For all the marketing of outdoor activities, they are still viewed as values based programs (Think Character Traits of an Eagle). When the program makes a left turn away from values, they loose members. My opinion is the BSA is loosing scouts from its own weight. Any volunteer with a few years experience in managing a Cub program will tell you its nearly a full time job. The number of Cub families that drop in the first year is pretty high. As for the 1998 mark of membership decreasing, there was a dramatic rise of membership in the early 90s that was attributed to the Gulf war. You pick the reasons, but I remember the theory was the drop in the 1998 was only a leveling of that upward trend. Barry

>>By the way, BSA membership continues its free-fall.

He's ready to be the Scoutmaster. Barry

>>I really am beginning to think that when we return to the ideal that the First Class Scout badge is the true mark of better boyhood, we will be on the trail.

>>The more adult participation in the program, the less the Scout participation. Unless the Scouts are running the show it is, in my estimation, not scouting, it is only a family outing of multiple families.

>>But I suspect some of it has to do with the fact that kids just don't know what to do with themselves if they don't have some definite goal in mind.

Wicking hiking socks (0% cotton). I'm amazed how much more comfortable I feel when my feet feel good. Barry

>>Should skills competence be addressed by the SM during the MB process? Of course it should. That's where the SM's role as gatekeeper comes into play.

There actions make me feel proud of being part of this program. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Sounds like a great trip to me. I will push that idea around here. Oh, one other idea our troop has done is a Scuba trip in Cozumel. A lot of scuba shops have cheap group trips and if you plan far enough a head, you can get good rates on airfare. Barry

Yes, you are right. We use to stay on a houseboat in my college days and tow a skiboat along with us. I didn't know if that was how this High adventure worked. It sounds like great fun. Barry

Houseboating is a new one for me, whats that all about? Can they waterski? Barry

High Adventure isn't just a summer thing, someone needs to start planning a snow skiing and cross country skiing trip. Beary

Are you the dog or the tail? Our pack and troop did what was best for the unit at the time. If we needed money for the boys, we raised money for the boys. If we had time to support the Council, then we did that. But it was a character building experience either way. In the first 10 years of our troop, we went to our local camp twice, once the first year we started the troop and once again 6 years later. It wasnt that good a camp for our program, so we attented better ones. But we also werent the kind of troop that let the Quality Unit Award list drive our program either. Barry

>>A district should not be teaching a TLT-like course and a Council should only offer NYLT as a follow on to TLT. Any other course will not fit with well leadership-wise with TLT and send a confusing message to the scouts.

>>The only thing I suggest when doing something like this is making sure the Scoutmasters are involved and have their past senior leadership help lead the course,

>>I'm in Mike F's corner on this one. This "boys will be boys" until someone gets hurt is the wrong way to go. If the behavior is wrong, then don't allow it.

>>And you'd like to think that you just need to make sure the boys understand things and you'll be ok, but you forget that many times it must go from the adult leader to the scout to the parent,>> No, I didnt forget that, we just didnt do it that way. The way I looked at it was would you call your 25 year old sons boss to find out more details about his company benefits? I directed our program to steer the scouts to be the experts of their program, not the adults. I wanted the scouts to learn how to become self dependent. That is why I tried not to let the program get too far away from what was in the Scouts handbooks. If a parent wants to know something, they learned pretty quickly that we expected them to ask their son. If their son didnt give the answer they wanted to hear, we expected their son to contact their patrol leader or SPL or whoever was the expert of their question. If after all that they still needed more information, then the adults were the last step in that process, but it was rare that questions reached an adult. I felt the scouts should become the expert of their program, whether that is advancement, scouts skills or uniforms. I overheard more than once scouts discussing a question and saying we better look first in the book first before we ask the scoutmaster because he is going to tell us to look there first. I personally felt that was a good habit for them to learn. The PLC also had a copy of the G2SS so that they could determine if their activities were approved by the BSA. It was rare that we had to say something. I found that our troop program tended to get more complicated when the adults added more great ideas like a cool new program to track scout advancement. When our new Advancement Chair inherited the previous chairs nightmare monster tracking system, I knew that the best most simple system comes from scouts. I have a story to follow this, our scouts teach the Totn Chit or Woods Tools class to all new scouts and adult leaders when they first join. No adults are involved in the training. A new ASM approached me after that training and said he felt the scout taught the knife sharpening technique incorrectly. I asked him to get a Boy Scout Handbook and check it against the book because that is where the scout is suppose to be teaching from. He came back with a big happy smile and admitted the scout trained him correctly. What he found was the books have changed since he was a scout. The Scout was the expert. By the way, we had this same attitude with MBs. Our Troop did some of the district training for MB counselors and we taught them to work strictly from the books and to encourage the scout to become experts from that book. I know this really comes down to different philosophies toward scout growth. I dont believe mine is the best, it actually is what I developed over the years of what worked and didnt work. But it is one style that did work. I will say we did have a Troop Parents Guide that was really more designed for visiting Webelos parents that may have some policies in writing, I dont remember. But it was intended and used for marketing, not troop guidelines. It may have stated a more detail uniform policy, I honestly dont remember, but that is not how we worked with the scouts. The whole intent of the guide was to give the parents something to compare with other troop programs. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Why are you describing the uniform when all the boys only need to do is look at their Boy Scout Handbook. Why rewrite what the BSA has already stated. I think you will find it to be about the same and it is a lot easier for the Scoutmaster to justify using the BSA policies instead of his own. TROOP UNIFORM: Refer To Scout Handbook. If they want to modify the BSA policies, well then that is something different and the scoutmaster can work with them on that if needed, However, I always start by asking if their changes are within the Scout Law and Oath. That is a tough question for them on uniforming. As for the uniforming to and from camp, Why? I mean once the scouts get to camp, they get dirty and sweaty setting up camp, so why the need? My point is not to suggest you shouldnt uniform while traveling, but have a good understandable justification that scouts can understand and that doesnt sound like something the adults just want. You are working with young adults here, so work with them like adults. I had a policy with all my PLCs that they could change any rule or policy (BSA or other) if I could not justify how they applied to the good of building character, citizenship and service to others. The only uniform rule I asked the PLC to consider over the Handbook was full uniform while traveling because we found that store and restaurant operators get very nervous with 50 teenage boys running around. The uniform conects the store clerks which adults who are responsible for them. When I proposed that to the PLC, not only did they agree, but the justification was also easy for them to explain to the other scouts. My point is give good explanations for all your policies and rules that the scouts understand and agree. And dont make your job harder by duplicating what the BSA has already done. You certainly shouldnt be describing a Class A or B uniform when the book already does that. If your concern is explaining the uniform to the parents, suggest they ask their sons, which is more practice in reading the book. By the way, the Handbook calls it a dress uniform and field uniform. Make the scouts read their book. Personally the only policies I think you need to add over the Scout Handbook are B, E and F. I would likely just tak F onto the "TROOP UNIFORM:" LIne. Barry