Eagledad

Gotta say the camp twinkie sounds like a lot of fun. Anything that requires whip cream and holding stick over a fire is perfect for scouts. I will have to try that one at home. Barry

Gorp is easy to make and taste good on campouts. Beary

Smores. Build a fire and hand the boys a stick and marshmellow. If this is an indoor event, find some burners and set them in some turkey pans. That is our pack's favorite snack. Barry

You need to figure out what you want in your tent first. I also wore out a beloved Temberline 2. What I liked about it was the fast set-up and the two doors. I used our troop Temberline 4s w/o a back door and found I didn't like not having a back door and it stood so high that it didn't hold well in the Oklahoma wind. So my personal backpacking tent has two accesses into the tent and a more rounded profile (although it is not a dome) to resist wind. Barry

>>In most cases these welfare kids get an inferior education and are not competitive in the marketplace after graduation,if they even graduate. Out of date textbooks, little to no equipment, teachers who don't really want to be there are just a few of the factors.

Paper Airplane contest is what we did. Barry

>>The only problem with your scenario with welfare/poor kids is that for one it was not their fault they were born to poor/welfare parents. Secondly, if we don't break the poverty cycle by giving them a chance at getting a good job with a decent education then like their parents they will be on the welfare dole supported by the state for all of their lives.

>>How about wind? In the summer we usually have a fair amount of wind here

I think everyone is missing question, he is asking why does a scout have to dictate it to pass a requirement, and I agree. I can't recall a teaching style was ever a requirement before and while we can discuss the value of EDGE, I dont see why a scout should have to recite it to advance. Of course I think the Webelos requirement to visit a SM and fill out a Troop application is also out of context with the program. Oh, and we do have the choice to participate or skip forum discussions. If a person finds they are so frustrated with a forum topic that they have to yell in text in a discussion, that is a red flag that maybe you are spending a little too much time on forums. Barry

Yes!

You did great with the scouts. You were not proactive enough with the parents. I learned through the same floggings from parents to inform what you are going to do and why before you do it. For example, when the scouts first join and you have all the parents together, you explain that the troop program cant possibly have one patrol of 13 new scouts because in your experience, it doesnt work well. Their sons will not enjoy it because everyone is running over each other. However, you have found that new scouts do very well in separate patrols provided they have a couple of friends with them. In fact, they will grow from the experience because they get to compare and compete with each other, something boys enjoy doing with their friends. I would never ask the Scouts to do anything or not do something just so that you dont get calls from their parents. One, it sets in their minds that its you against their parents and you dont want that. They must trust that you and the parents are a team that work together. You will need that trust down the road. Two, parent calls are red flags for you that something probably needs to change. I got calls every night my first years as a SM, I rarely got calls during my last year because I changed the way we did a few things and I learned how to be a proactive with the parents while being reactive with scouts. Keep up the great work 2cub, your scouts are lucky to have you. Barry

>>But my point in all this is that if one wishes to engage in science, there actually IS a way to find agreement that is not based simply on desire to believe. It is based on common experience and observation and evidence. Because this approach is available to anyone, I consider science a way to bring people together.

>>Speaking for myself, the answer would be 'no'. Did you suddenly think you are clairvoyant? >So what I ACTUALLY 'meant' was that I hope I live long enough to see the day when gays, transgenders, and others who are the object of prejudice based in fear and ignorance can be ACCEPTED in society, at least to the extent that they have rights equal to the rest of us.

Any scout in our troop can organize a trip outside of the troop program. There are no age, rank or leadership reqirements or restrictions except G2SS and camp restriction to be part of the crew. The only requirements the troop committee ask are a written plan and a roster including adults. They can plan as many trips as they want. Just tell GO! Barry

You are confusing instinct and behavior. Humans have the ability to reason and choose to not follow instinct. The whole idea of a values youth program is teaching boys how to make moral and ethical choices. Read the BSA vision statement. Gods morality is consistent for all time. That's why it is the perfect reference for humans to behave in peace and equality, if they ever decide to choose so. Even an atheist understands one set of rules for everyone that never changes establishes a peaceful world. Barry

I understand this is emotional discussion for you Scoutfish, but you are still missing the point. Well get back to that in a moment. First I must say I disagree with just about everything you said. I don't think man or animals are born counter to their instincts, which are survival and expanding the population. A little study of human physiology shows that physical homosexual attraction makes no sense to our human instincts. So homosexuality must be emotional, and if it is emotional, it can be controlled by choice. This thing about the SM kissing his wife is silly. I understand some here reaching for anything to debate the point, but I was disappointed to see Acco jump in, he usually stays away from such things. Kissing a spouse, family member or even close friends as a form of greeting or departure is a tender shows of affection or respect. It is as acceptable in our coulture as hugs, shaking hands, and giving high fives. Just think how popular someone would be if they restricted such actions of families before and after campouts. And you miss thar point completely. Also, to say an adult should keep there personal life out of scouting takes away the important part of the relationship we develop as role models. The whole idea of SM Confrenses and BORs is to get to know the scout better. Is it not supposed to be a two way street? If you have any hope of developing respect and connecting with your scouts, you have to open up. Ironically, suggesting that everyone in the BSA reframe hugs kisses, shaking hands so gays can participate does point how some folks are so willing to take away the freedoms of many to pacify the few. Isn't that really all political correctness does. But as I said earlier SF, you are missing the point. All you, Acco, Pack really want is the freedom for a SM to give that affectionate kiss goodby to their partner of the same sex without the fear of being kicked out of scouting. Right? You speed so much time turning phrases, disqualifying everyone else who disagrees and searching for loop holes, you miss the main point that what you really want is for a SM to be able to openly and in public kiss their partner of the same sex goodby. And you can't have that because it is considered immoral. But that's all you really want. So why not just disagree and leave it at that? I admit your rant on morality didnt make sense to me. I'm sure the was a point in there somewhere. Barry

>>The $64,000 question is why do these units exist, and others can't pull it off. Weak-kneed leaders is my answer. SMs are so afraid of losing boys if they ask them to wear the uniform or show up and participate.

>>A SM telling the scouts that he has the habit of kissing his wife before he leaves for work is different from that same SM telling scouts he kisses his husband. Why?

>>then why would a transgendered SM be affored an opportunity to talk about their experience?

>>>>But I would rather let them speak for themselves rather than rely on me to do it for them.

Well Mr. Boyce does kind of touch on something I was wondering about the other day. Packsaddle gave an example of the complicated life of transgender folks. I think at some point Pack said he hoped to live long enough for such people to be seen as normal and even that the BSA would accept them as normal. Not his words so much, but that is what I think he meant. After I read that, I wondered does that mean all people are normal now and there is no such thing as mental illness? What does it take anymore to be considered mentally ill if transgender is considered normal? Hopefully pedophilia is still a sickness, but what about those who desire animals or corpse. They arent hurting anyone really. Transgender is normal? Ive said before that the acceptance of homosexuality in a culture is not a problem in of itself, it is indicative of a culture that has morally lost itself. Morality has become what one feels at the moment. Not just in ones sexual desires, but also in the integrity of our day to day decisions and intentions. We are lost. Personally I feel for these folks in todays world because many people need professional help and wont get it because when it comes down to it, politics wont allow it. Yep, weve come to a place where its becoming politically incorrect to consider even a person who wants to physically change their gender ill. Packsaddle hopes one day that a transgender person might be SM. I hope one day they will get the help they need to feel satisfied to be who they are. Barry

Wow, that was well said BP. I must admit, I don't really understand what stosh is trying to say, but the replies are really good. Barry

>>Mommy and Daddy are screaming at me the next time they see me because their prescious little angel almost starved to death. Before everybody jumps down my throat, I've tried all the classic approaches, educating the parents etc......many troop operate like weblos 3 and it just doesn't work.

Haven't had this with a scout, but we did with an adult volunteer that was asked to leave. When the SM of the troop this adult joined after us called me, I told him anything he wanted to know. It wasn't a long discussion because the SM already saw the problem, he was just verifying it. The SM of the troop after him also called. The SM of the troop after us didn't ask the adult to leave, but it was coming. I do think safety is important and its good to learn the history of troubled folks, or if there is even a troubled history. I am not sure of the fear of imformation here, but scouting is hard enough without mistory clouding the job. Barry

>>And yes, there is indeed some irony in "respecting the beliefs of others", while not actually allowing the chartered organizations to freely choose leaders according to those beliefs (some of the COs are fine with homosexuality).