Eagledad

>>I merely wonder why bother with a galvanized container in the first place? Why not aluminum or stainless steel for cleaning. You'll never have to worry about rust for either of those and you can use the stainless for cooking to boot!

>>I have seen Troops make "trash-can" Turkey where they take coals, a turkey on a spit, and place a trash-can (which I presume is galvanized steel straight from China) over it. Cooks for hours. I know the trashcan gets too hot to touch. Is there a zinc hazard there?

We had the same experience once at a boy scout summer camp. Food was a panic issue because two troops brought 80 more scouts than was expected. But for the other problems you mentioned, well the short story for us was a CD wasn't even found until a month before camp opened and he didn't start recruting staff until two weeks later. The CD had never done the job before and it was a mess, at least for those of us who arrived the first week of the summer. It was so frustrating for the staff that some of them quit that first week. Council had a real bad summer that year, but they did recover and did a lot better the following years. Barry

Folks have asked the same question with the scripture Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesars, and unto God the things that are Gods. I had a similar experience to Packsaddles while traveling through a very poor village on a Caribbean Island. A passenger on our bus started tossing quarters to the children walking home from school. The bus driver clearly showed his displeasure and once we were out of the village, he at the risk of loosing his tip, explained that the children only see the money for a moment because the adult close by will take it from them as soon as our bus is out of site, possibly to the childrens harm. Even worse, he said, only American dollars work on this island; quarters are just trinkets and have no value especially for the risk of the children. Barry

>>For most council camps I have seen to be used for distributed troop camping -- patrols far enough apart to have some change of independent experience -- the troop would have to rent several "troop sites."

Do they meet at different times? If so, join both and let him figure it out. My experience is new scouts 14 and older don't usually stay in troop programs very long for the same reason older scouts don't do well in troops that make a big program changes. Barry

I'm with Acco in that the scouts develop the schedual, but I hold them accountable to it. Nothing teaches discipline, skills and time management better than holding to a schedual. The partcipants of our Council JLTC where told to build the course schedual for the whole week. They were required to include 4 hours of class time, two pPLV meetings, three meals and a campfire, but other than that, it was all up to them. Typically the day started with breakfast around 9:00 dinner finally fitted in around 7:00. We rotated a new PLC everyday with new PLC tasked to develop a new schedual. They can keep the previous PLCs schedual or make a new one. Usally a new one is made because starving scouts were tired of waiting so long for supper and going to bed late trying to fit in 6 hours of free time with 4 hours of class, 3 hours for meals, 2 hours of PLC time and 1 hour for campfire. Scouts can learn a lot by being held to their schedual. Barry

>>I got rid of thousands of illegal, discriminatory BSA units chartered to public schools; are you going to do anything about this, or just whine?

Our troop did two annual planning sessions each year where the PLC first picked a theme for each month, then a campsite location for that theme. The whole month is planned around the theme. That is how we taught it at our then Council youth leadership development course, JLTC. Barry

>> You are talking like an Irving executive who deals with membership dollars and not a Scoutmaster who deals with boys. I feel deeply sorry for that callousness, and that of others who refuse to see the real pain that this policy causes to real, live boys.

>>I strongly disagree.

>> I would be much more receptive to having him attend a committee meeting or meeting one-on-one.

>>Can anyone point me to reports, studies, analyses, statistics, etc., that show this from the Canadian example?

Its not just the loss of present membership that would hurt, the BSA gets a huge huge amount of their funding from alumni. Usually alumni donations go to council resources and professional compensations. The loss of alumni funding really hurt the Girl Scouts and is what nearly killed the Canadian Scout program completely. Alumni Funding is probably the biggest fear and reason to resist change. And dont assume units wont feel the affects either, almost immediately camps go up for sale and the prices for attending camps will rise. Programs like Cub Day Camp and possibly Webelos Summer Camps will go away completely do to lack of resources. I would also expect a lot of districts and councils merging to make it easier for the shortened resources and staffs. The rural areas will almost be completely neglected and have to survive on their own. Ironically scouting might be forced to go back to a more traditional style program. Barry

>>Our kids are goin' to know such folks their whole lives, eh? And work with 'em, and live next door to 'em. And they should learn to treat 'em as neighbors and friends and colleagues and bosses and fellow souls made in da image and likeness of God.

This isn't new really, I had the same basic training back when I was District Membership Chair in 1997. I recruited my replacement and a couple of others. We had a subcommittee meeting before the District Committee just like it was suggested on this training. Our group made huges leaps and bounds in helping to the district program. Some of the policies we developed then are still used today. But most of the other committee chairs didn't recruit or lead subcommittee meetings and District Committee as a whole struggled. As for the recriting, everyone I recruited for the Membership committee in 1997 eventually became chairs for other committees. As was said, if you can read people and place them in the right place, you will likely have those volunteers for a long time. Barry

>> -Usual parental pressures - this is an affluent and (over) educated group of parents- so they push for rapid advancements. -While the boys are achieving at campouts I not so sure they are having fun.

>>So BSA's numbers have been growing by leaps and bounds over the last 30 years? Correlation does not equal causation.

>>The bottom line is that there's no way to quantify the pluses and minuses on either side of the argument. Any guesses we make are just that, guesses.

>>I know that my church will START a Troop and a Crew the second the BSA allows the Charter Org to follow their faith in applying the Morally Straight clause.

>>I'm one of those Eagledad hints at, really not the best fit for the job, but when I went to the DE to offer services as a UC, they had zero commissioner staff.

>> But, recruiting, is EVERY commissioner's job - not just the administrative commissioners

Im a little surprised that the District Commissioner and Council Commissioners havent been discussed. While there are some very good individual Unit Commissioners who have the passion to do a good job like SeattlePiondeer, the general quality of the Commissioner Corp. is a reflection of the leaders. Sadly, I have watched hard working UCs promoted up to a manager leader level even though they lack the skills for the position. Districts out there with a high level of quality UCs all have one thing in common, a DC with the skills of recruiting and accountability. Recruiting speaks for itself, but accountability is the skill of managing systematically the UCs to keep track and respond to a unit's performance. For example, its not really hard to identify a broken den in a pack, the signs are generally overwhelmed adults with over active unresponsive scouts. There are many red flags a UC can note and take back to the District for discussion. I know this because Ive seen it work well in other districts. Those districts attempt to nip problems in the bud. Also, I dont buy into the idea there arent enough good scouters out there to do the job, I once asked a DC for some help with Webelos loses. He responded by telling me he couldnt get enough UCs to do the job. I handed him a list two days later of eight excited and qualified scouters wanting the job. But the point of my response is to quit promoting scouters who are rewarded the the DC and Council level Commissioner position for their hard work in other areas of the program and instead search for and find that rare special person with the skills to recruit and manage the program properly. I also like Twocubs idea of specialized RT commissioners. We tried this idea in our District with some success a few years ago only we didnt call the RT commissioners. It was an idea from the training committee, so we called them District Special Forces. Mainly they handled new and struggling units. But I must caution, just like in the Commission Corp, the RT commissioners are only as good as the volunteers who are recruited. A scouter who was a lousy Scoutmaster will also be a lousy Scoutmaster Advisor for a struggling troop. Its all about recruiting. Good discussion. Barry

It is an unusually bad year for rain and the dust is a problem. I didn't end up with a problem like yours, but the worst for me at Philmont was a dry dusty campsite carpeted with cattle droppings. Every breath of air was filled with a dust from those dried out droppings. Barry

Cub Scouts is a whole different program than Boy Scouts. I found that you dont really have that much control over the 10 year old drug dealer because the parent is the pusher. Its the parents that cause most of the problems in cubs. While I was Cub Master, I had to ask two Den Leaders to leave because of drinking problem during den meetings. We had one dad who drove all the kids to an overnight event while drunk. We realize the problem at the event and sent home alone. He reported to rehab the next day, but still. I had a family steal $400 dollars from our Popcorn fund and the worst part was this family needed it for survival. I had to ask a den leader to quit because her brain tumor caused her to be abusive with the scouts. I loved my Cub Scouting experience, but it was a lot easier working with troubled boys in the troop than it was trouble adults in the cubs. As for the troublesome 11 years old Boy Scouts, well I found that we both developed character as we worked together. Trying not to brag, but I was a pretty good CM. However, I am who I am because of my experiences as a SM. I love this scouting stuff. Barry