Eagledad

I'm so sorry Lisa, my thoughts and prayers are with all of you. Barry

Character are the habits we develop to override our instinctive reactions that don't fit in society. We might want to instinctively hit the person who makes us angry, but we developed a part of our character to just walk away. Like anything habits are hard to change. Change of character isnt something that just happens, its an action we have to choose. For a program to be able to change character, it has to force and give the participants the opportunities to make decisions that would motivate them to want to change their character habit. Some activities are better at developing character than others because of the number of opportunities that provides choices to change. Sports in general are not as good of activity for character development because coaches by the nature of the activity can pretty much direct all their players actions in an environment they choose. However, any program can have character development opportunities if the activities have some chanracter changing opportunities. I do know of some good coaches that specifically use the activities with character development in mind. But Scouting is the same way. If the adult tells a scout how to be a scout every step of the way and doesnt provide an opportunity for the scout to make some decisions, he will have rare opportunities to change character because he doesnt have the opportunity to make that decision. That being said, there is the opportunity for the scout to observe certain behaviors of others, which might encourage a change, but it must be significant to change a habit. The better way of changing character is motivation to get away from pain or struggle of their performance. There are countless activities that lead a scout to make changes in his life, but leadership is one of the best because true leadership puts us in situations where we are stressed and want to react quickly to relieve the stress. If we havent been in that situation before, we are likely to react more from instinct or bad habit, not the proper character habit. The job of a good mentor is to allow the person they are mentoring to get themselves in the situations of making a decision and then guiding them to reflect on their performance of that decision. That can be done in most organizations and activities. Many folks believe that wearing a uniform develops character. I believe the choice to wear the uniform is more about character. There is no show of character when the person is not given a choice. Well maybe the character trait of patience. So some organizations lend themselves better to character development than others, but certainly it depends on qualities and intentions of the mentor. Barry

>>How do we deal with this?

>>Threat?! Someone sees their rights going unrecognized and successfully sues. Where's the threat?>So unless they say they are booked, and you find them home twiddling their thumbs, and can prove their client didn't cancel.. They can say "No".. They just can't say "No, because I don't do same-sex marriages" or whatever else the person may discriminate against be it Jewish weddings or atheist weddings or whatever..

Our troop worked pretty hard trying to keep cost down and one of the ways we did that was older scouts sold their packs to new scouts when they out grew them. There is typcally one or two packs for sale at a Troop meeting. We also had a few donated packs in the equipment room for anyone to use. I'm glad to see their are more smaller packs out there now, there only a couple 15 years ago. The Jansport Scout is one of my favorites because it can hold up to a lot of abuse and can be easily adjusted as the scouts grew. But it is an external frame and it seems a lot of folks today don't care for external. I personally liked them for new scouts because they didn't have enough experience for packing an internal frame. The external took them from not knowing how to pack for camping at all to learning how to pack within their limits and where to put the items so they weight was comfortable. I can see how the new packs would work better today. I am impressed by the lighter weights you guys are getting. Barry

I was told a few years back that it is the GSA who keeps the BSA from considering girls in the Cub Scout program, not the BSA. Barry

Our "troop" QM is considered one of the top three leadership development positions in the troop and it is considered an unwritten prerequisite for SPL because of the skills it develops. He is responsible for training the "patrol" QMs how to manage their equipment and teaching them how to delegate members of the patrol to assist with maintaining the patrol equipment including loading and unloading the trailer or cars. The troop QM holds the keys for the equipment room and trailer and access can only go through him. He is also responsible for training a Replacement for outings he doesn't attend like high adventure crews. He is responsible for hitching and unhitching the trailer and is the trainer for the driver pulling the trailer. The "troop" QM is expected to teach the same basic responsibilities to the patrol QMs for their level of requirements. Our QMs works hard at all levels which is why I like the teaching responsibilities of the troop QM. It certainly requires a mature scout. I think the position at both the troop and patrol level develops more basic leadership skills than anyother POR. I really enjoy watching them manage the patrols for loading and unloading the equipment. Even the PLs step back and take orders from their QMs. When they are working as they have been trained, they a bonded crew of their own. And yet each patrol QM is one of the most independent and trusted POR member of the patrol because the patrol is expected to function independent of the troop at any time. Barry

They still have the patrol boxes and can choose to use them anytime they want, but its very rare.

The Scoutnut system works very well, but like Tampaturtle, we went more to a backpacking troop. We got away from patrol boxes and just about all the patrol gear is backpackable. In fact it is the same gear we used on our high adventure trips. The patrols could still check out Dutch ovens and lanterns from the QM if needed. The premise behind being a backpacking troop is the PL doesn't have to rely on the troop trailer to go on campouts. Since most of the gear can be carried in packs, the patrols are free to find their own transportation and travel on their own schedule. Use to the troop trailer was packed full with patrol boxes and gear, now 3/4 of trailer is filled with packs. That being said, the adults still use a patrol box and Coleman stoves. Barry

>>When Radar left, why was there so much confusion and why was the loss of his leadership so obvious.

The first two slots I fsearch out and fill when I build a team are someone to replace me and a "Radar O'Reilly". In fact we are looking for a new employee at my office now and the description header for that slot is titled Radar O'Reilly. Those folks are very rare. Barry

That is an interesting problem. We have never had a lack of cooperation or volunteers on the pinewood derby or Blue and Gold. In fact Pinewood evolved into the Dads yearly thing while the Blue and Gold belongs to the moms. Each group or committee starts planning way back in November. Are you asking for volunteers one on one or just asking the group and waiting for a response? We ask dads personally, and honestly I dont think Ive ever had a dad turn us down. Its all about tools and cars, what dad doesn't want to be a part of that? I do like the steak idea, A Lot! As for the open or unlimited class race with anything goes, that is a very popular race with our pack because we get some very imaginative cars. We run that race first followed by the siblings race and then the Cub Scouts last. We set up our track the night before, but I can see using the unlimited race to help tune the track if you are setting up the same night as the race. I really like that steak idea. I see a new pack tradition for the Pine Wood Crew. Barry

Well said all. We dont call it citizenship, we call it servant living. The servant life is prioritizing all your actions to better the life of others before yourself. We talk a lot here about servant leadership, but servant leadership is just one aspect of servant living. Servant follow ship is another. Servant living is based from the Scout Oath and Law. The Scout Oath directs and prioritizes our actions (to help other people at all times) and the Scout Law guides how we apply our actions in the moment. Each person in the group serves each other by doing their best to fill a need of the group. The group will benefit best from a Grub Master who serves the group with good food prepared well. I know it sounds kind of complicated, but in reality it is the same as how Citizenship is being applied in this discussion. In fact I think Citizenship is a better title here in the scouting program. Barry

>>Its almost as if you are not a natural leader, you get kicked to the curb with nothing in life to look forward to but to be a follower. I know I have missed something and would like to know what I missed

>>I'm with K on this one. If a self-selecting group of boys wants to go on an adventure, they don't have to be reorganized into their own patrol to accomplish that

I think you have got some good advice already. If you do go NSPs for a few months (and we did this also with big groups of Webelos) make sure everyone (especially the new parents) understand that the new scouts will join a more mature patrol in a few months. We encourage the new scouts to watch and shop for the new patrol they want to join. The mixed age (mature Patrols) are also encouraged to watch and shop for new scouts to recruit during those same months. Now I know a lot of folks think new scouts will do better if they stay with the same group of boys they have been with since kindergarten, but we found one or two buddies are all they really need. Its usually the adults that feel the whole group would be better together. But young scouts need older scouts to really get the most out of scouting. If your program doesnt work that way, Patrol Method struggles and requires more outside intervention from the adults to maintain positive growth and more importantly, fun. And honestly, adults arent fun. Barry

Morning fog on the lake Smells of the woods Birds singing at dawn warmth of the fire Barry

>>I have repeatably seen scouts develop more character in one week of High Adventure than many adult have ever developed.

I must admit it saddens me to read so much distress over the Pinewood Derby event. To some degree, I want to say those of you who consistently bad experiences are doing it wrong. But I also wonder if maybe most of the scouts are having fun and its just distress over the few participants that went over the top. Having two sons, I have planned, ran and monitored my share of races and I cant think of one event where 98 percent of the families didnt leave with smiles on their faces. Through the years I was there, our pack numbered from 80 scouts to 120, so our events are big with several hundred family members attending. In fact, to try and keep the event under an hour and a half, we used two tracks to speed things along. Maybe our success is that its a family event for our pack. While we do have winners and losers, the event is talked about for several weeks as a family fun night. Each scout gets a PW Kit in December for Christmas, but we also have siblings races and a race that any car can race in the unlimited class. We even provide several cars for sibling who didnt build a car but want to race. Usually last years races cars. We also set up a hot dog meal-deal with a chilli hotdog, chips, and coke for only a couple bucks. We have candy, popcorn and baked goods for sale at a very reasonable price as well to fill the stomachs. Its set purposely on Friday night and advertised as a Friday Family Fun Night where everyone in the family is expected comes to eat, race, cheer, sing, laugh and even cry. The tracks are set up so that the scouts and other family participants can sit on the floor right next to the track to watch their car race past by within and arm reach. Then we set up several rolls of chairs along the track as well for the family members who dont want to sit on the floor, but still get a good view of the race. I know a lot of packs dont let anyone near the track for fear of a scout touching the car as it goes by, but sitting close to the action is part of the fun and we found only a couple warnings is all the participants need to keep their hands off the track. While the race goes on, the CM is also leading cheers as each set of cars are being set up for the start. The objective is keep the scouts moving and yelling so that by the end of the night, (about 1 hour 15 minutes) the kids are exhausted and the parents laughing from the fun. Its a great evening. A few secrets that make life a little easier for us is we give the cars to the scouts in December and explain they can use only the parts in the kit. They have to follow the rules in the kits. We found the more rules you add, the more complicated the race gets. Its just easier pushing the simple rules. We check in the cars the night before the race so that we have time to help modify cars that didnt quite make it up to the rules. Usually its adding weight to cars. But we have a few dads excited to help a scout with any car that might need some help. If you can, set up the tracks the evening before so that adults dont have to show up a couple hours early and make it a very long evening. But that depends on your event location. We have two are three pit nights for scouts who needs some adult help. We also give names and numbers in the December news letter of dads who are willing to help any scout with his project. That was set up for scouts of single parent moms, but any scout can call. Surprisingly they dont get many calls. Each car gets to race a minimum of 9 or 10 times, so the scouts watch their car race plenty. My observation is the scouts actually get kind of bored after for five races and get more into the cheers, eating and laughing than the racing. So having the CM entertaining the audience helps. Im not sure what we are doing that is different from your pack, but this can be a fun event for each member of the family to look forward to. Get dads to plan and run the race side and moms to plan and run the concession side. Use the Webelos to take car from the pit area to the start line and let start the cars. Have fun folks. Barry

I'm trying to understand your thinking here, do you feel the adults in troops should eat the same food as their scouts eat on campouts? Also, since all the members of the committee select the food as you said, what is the problem? Barry

>>So for B&G, I told her that we could have spaghetti and salad and bread for a meal. She was okay with this , but still wanted to cook a few Boston butts as well.

I had a friend concerned with the way his troop was creating classes for many of their MBs. The troop would spend one hour on a MB before the troop meeting each week and they were getting 100 percent completion of badges in the two one hour meetings. On his own, he did an experiment with a few MBs where he introduced the MB in short class then told the scouts to call him when they were ready to perform and sign off on the requirements. He found that only 30 persent of the scouts ever called him. And only a third of them completed all the work. Barry

I struggle with the word bribery. Is it bribery for the patrol to finish KP before assembling so they dont have to do it later during free time? Our scouts schedule in a lot of activities and if they cant get to all of them, somethings got to give. I designed the program that way on purpose because its much easier to let time nag the scouts into becoming efficient. If the troop is late getting home, they alter the original schedule and skip the junk food stop. No our troop doesnt pay, what scouts do with their money is their responsibility. We did have a couple of mentally handicap scouts that we had to guide with money, but we worked that situation in partners with their parents. $5 or $10 is a lot of junk food. Our scouts just had lunch before we left camp, so they arent buying a meal. Barry

Has anyone seen the Troop 232 Koshare Indian Dancers in La Junta Colorado? Do a google search, these guys are impressive. Its a perfect overnight stop on your way to Pilmont. I haven't been there in about 15 years, but they used to charge each scout $1.00 to sleep and shower in their gym. For another $1.00 you get to watch an hours worth of fancy dancing which ranks up there with the pros in the Oklahoma Red Earth Festival. Several hundred Eagles have come out of that troop as well. Very cool. Barry

>>Eagle 92, That may have been the best post I have ever read on this forum. I am truly proud to call you a Brother.