Eagledad

Wow, you guys are asking some good questions that this forum has chewed on many times. Beaverah is right that doing a search will reward you with more discussions than you could possible read in a week. This is one of my favorite subjects, but I will try to keep my initial response short so you can ask questions. I first like to get adult leaders to point their focus on the objectives of a new scout program and not think of it as just another process in the SM Handbook. The BSA doesnt tell you that the main objective of the New Scout Program is getting your new scouts up to speed as quickly as possible so that they feel confident to have fun in the troop. Why, because the BSA looses more boys from scouting in the first six months of joining the troop than any other time or age in scouting. The reason is the young boys of this age go from a world of adults holding their hands and making all their decisions, to a new world of making their own decisions and having to trust other boys for their safety and enjoyment in the troop program. Their first campout is probably the most intimidating (scary) experience these boys will have had so far in their young lives. So you, the adult, need to figure out how to get the young babied boys to confident scouts who can trust other boys to help them have fun in the program. That means you need to keeps adults just close enough so the new scouts are not totally terrified, but far enough away so they develop a relationship and trust to depend on the other scouts. Experience shows that you have about six months to transform mommas boy into a confident excited scout longing to go camping with his patrol. Otherwise you will likely loose him in the second six months. Now that you know the why, there are a lot of us here with experiences to help you figure out the how. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>> I'm thinking about getting a "Tats Are Trashy" tattoo. But WHERE?

I kind of agree on functionality, the one activity you won't see much of the uniform in our group is on high adventure trips. But one year, there was a crew at Philmont of older scouts that wore the full uniform during their whole 90 something mile trip. These guys were elitist backpackers and made everything seem easy and perfect, even singing and chanting during much of their hike. Most or our crew were also very experienced backpackers and could easily keep up with these guys, but we all admitted they looked very impressive. I am not suggesting using the uniform method like it is the only method, but sometimes we might make it to easy to not use it. Barry

>>I tried to narrow the focus of this thread specifically to the BSA Pants. I want rationale that makes sense to the boys. And I think EagleDad has given me the best ammo so far.. So I'm leaning towards any OD Green pants within a certain color range. This would legitimize cargo pants, wool trousers, and many hiking shorts. And it might actually get us more uniform in appearance.

>>I was thinkin' the other day that in actual fact, Hillary Clinton has made a superb Secretary of State. She's been marvelously astute, respectful of other nations but firm, and is a master of manipulating people usin' their underlying interests. Here we have the whole world, even the Arab world, siding with the U.S. over Syria and condemning the Russians and the Chinese. And in the same month, we have the EU takin' the lead on pushing punitive sanctions against Iran. That's just masterful.

>>A lot depends on what yeh feel you are tryin' to accomplish with the Uniform Method. I think the units that don't have a good sense of their goals are the ones that have the most trouble with uniforming.

>>I will eventually be SM, but I am in no rush.... I will be kinda nice having a bit of time to myself.

We've had one for years because storms in Oklahoma develop fast and often in the Spring. It once save one of our patrols that was camping on their own. They were able to get out of the area just before the tornado dropped near by. As cell phones started getting more popular, spouses would call and warn us of something developing. I'm sure the smart phones are doing the brunt of the work now. BArry

OK, thanks guys. Barry

I would be happy with just seat belt laws if they would get rid of the airbomb law, I'm sorry I mean airbag law. While the airbag might save a few more lives over the seat belts (and I'm not convinced they do), the number of injuries that require medical attention caused by airbags has multiplied by more than ten. If your airbag goes off even while the car is not moving, you will likely need medical treatment, especially if you are wearing glasses. And that doesn't include the cost of fixing damages to the car caused by just the airbags. And who gets sued for these damages, the car makers who are forced to bend at the governments will. Nobody in there right mind would force a person to drive with a loaded bomb pointing at their face except the government. You have to remember the original intention of the air bomb was to replace seat belts. So it's original data was compared to a no seat belt car. we should at the very least have a choice of switching the bomb off if we willingly give in to wearing the seatbelt. Barry

Rjscout is correct. How is a car lengthened from the original block of wood? Barry

Crossovers are kind of hard. Troops will do what the packs want, but they usually have the calender planned so they can get new scouts up to speed before summer camp. Our troop would liked to have all the new scouts by the middle of February and plan around that. Packs typically try to program around Blue and Gold, but Dens a lot of the time have their own agenda as well, so it can get messy. After I had a few years as a troop leader and Pack Leader, I tried to get the pack to schedule crossovers and AOLs at Pack meetings and leave the Blue and Gold to just plain fun pack awards. Pack meetings are easier for Troops to send a representative for the crossovers. Pack meetings are easier for the CM to add a crossover or AOL if one suddenly pops up later in the year. We had years where our pack had 30 Webelos in three dens crossing over into six troops. And, several of the families didn't pick a troop until just a few minutes before the crossover. But you know, I remember those days fondly. Barry

While I was a scout in the 60s and 70s, I wore the scout shirt and hat my dad wore in 1940. I got a lot of complements from the adults. Sadly, my mom gave them away while I was in college. Barry

>>My lab has 5 such instruments and all of them read exactly the standards accurately.

>>Sounds like the District Activity Operations Committee should invest $60 for 5 oz of NIST approved field calibration weights, and then have them available for loan to Packs, and for the District PW event as well.

Well TT, we are not there, so of course you are going to have to feel that one out. I am one of those who likes to have solutions ready to propose when I present problems. In the case of scouts, I like to start conversations with parents something like ""Oh by the way, this is not issue here because we are taking care of it, but I wanted to just keep you in the loop of the situation."". You are not really asking for their help or even getting them involved, you are just having a discussion of how Bobby is doing in the Troop. And he is doing fine. You have a tough situation, I'm sure you will do fine because your heart seems to be your guide. Barry

>>You just can't predict one set of scales over another.

Yes, and Yes. All our scouts knew that there are no secrets between scouts and adults hidden from parents. I have countless stories of scouters getting in trouble by holding back from the parents. In fact, one big blow up occurred when the parents learned the SM held from them that their son once brought porn on a campout. You are part of the parents team who works together for the good of their son. Even if the parents don't appreciate your standards, they should still respect them. More often than not, I have found that scouts with parents who don't give their son boundaries appreciate the boundaries of the troop because it gives them a small sense of security they dont get at home. Barry

>>yeah, one gay man does not speak for every gay man.

>>Beavah - the problem with your recommendation is that our law is full of various legal definitions wrapped around the word marriage. This includes inheritance, forced testimony, hospital visitation rights, taxation, etc. The simplest path would be massive "cut and replace" function where "Marriage" in the civil code is replaced by "Civil Union" or some other such term.

It's not business, it's abortion in an election year. It's purely politics to firm up the base. Barry

The difference between a push mobile and a cub mobile is the key word push. Our pack looked into this because we really like the idea of people power and team coordination in a competition. Believe it or not, it was our budget that made our decision. The extra materials required to build a car in the plans for a car capable of being pushed required more money. I had always hoped that our Troop would have tried the push mobile races for both fun and for developing pack relationships, but I think we just forgot about it. Imagine a troop sponsoring a District Webelos Pushmobile Derby day. And even invite your favorite pack over for fun during one of their pack meetings. That would certianly be the coolest troop in the district. Barry

Maybe its an engineering thing, but I understand Eng61s attitude toward recognition. Still, as a scout leader, I also understand the positive value of instant recognition. The energy from the Pride of achievement will go a long ways toward motivation of future ambition. I remember a Webelos scout who was the first in his den to earn the AOL. He earned it at least three months a head of the next scout and he was very proud of his hard work. But do to unforeseen circumstances, he had to wait three months five month for the next pack meeting and by that time, several of the scouts in his den were also being award the AOL. The AOL had lost its luster for him. After that experience, I instantly recognized all my Webelos with all their awards at each den meeting. Also, many troop programs require rank for requirements to many activities and positions of responsibility. At best, a troop might have a COH every three months, so that can be a long time to wait just to be publically recognized. I know how frustrating it is for Eagle Scouts to wait for their ECOH just so they can wear their Eagle Patch. Our Troop awards them an Eagle patch as a troop gift at the next Troop meeting. Barry

Cub mobile racing is the best. Our Pack raced them every two months or so. The District was so impressed by them that they ran a District Cub Mobile race every year. Our Pack cars lasted about ten years before the kids from the church youth camp got a hold of them and destroyed them. We had each den build and paint their cars, but first I cut the lumber and drilled the holes prier so that they all were basically the same. We just gave each den all the precut parts with basic instructions and let them go. We also found some Automotive parts advertising stickers as well as Cub Scout sticker from the Scout Shop that they could put on their cars as well. We also built to the bear plans, but we added one modification on the front axle 2X4 that limited the turning radius. Most of our accidents came from scouts turning too sharp and loosing control. These cars dont need much turning ability to stay on the track. Also, sometimes the boys tended to put their foot or hand down on the ground to help slow the car down. To stop that, we had them practice holding the brake handle with both hands and steer with the feet on the front axle. The plans have a rope attached to the front axle that appears to be used for steering, but we found it only works well for pulling the car up to the start line. By keeping both hands on the brake, they were able to stop the car instantly if they panic. Cub Mobiles are great fun and can be used for several years. Have a blast. Barry

Our pack varied from 90 to 140 scouts. Most of the difference depended on the the timing of Webelos crossing over to scouts. Crossing over really depended on the den and some dens crossed over before rechartering while others crossed over after rechartering. Barry