Eagledad

I made my own awards to show how proud I was of the scouts. You can never know what the scout think about the awards, but I saw many of those awards displayed later at the scout's Eagle Court of Honor. Barry

Hi There was a discussion just a few weeks ago here on the subject with some good information if you can find it. As to your question, use only 2x4's. The rest is way too heavy and over kill for what you need. Barry

>> I repeat my earlier words, which I think are burnished in wisdom after the last several post

The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. We adults are given a direction to reaching that mission with the Three Aims of Scouting: Growth In moral and character, Participating citizenship and Development of physical, mental and emotional fitness. The adults are guided and tought that the Eight Methods are how the scouts work toward the Three Aims are: Advancement Ideals Patrols Outdoors Adult Association Personal Growth Leadership Development Uniform The Boy Scout Handbook and Scoutmaster Handbook clearly state how adults and scouts should wear the uniform during scouting activities. The Scoutmaster Specific Course talks about Uniform in three different sections of the course. None of those sections teach how not to wear the uniform. You guys who disparage and belittle folks who are just trying to keep their head above water by following the BSA guidelines think you have any credibility because you say its for the boys? If you cant present your point without making yourself above it all and without the example of the cost of uniforms, then you aren't helping. Yes, it is for the boys. All eight methods are for the boys. The Scout Handbook is for the boys. The adult Handbooks are for the boys, and the adult training is for the boys. And, the uniform is also for the boys. Youve brought your own personal emotion in on the discussion and lost any real rational instruction for new leaders. You dont appear to be giving any guidience, just a bunch of chest beatings. YOu aren't helping the poor SM any more than you change the mind of the Uniform Police adult. You aren't helping. Put yourself in the Scoutmaster Specifics Instructor's shoes. Barry

>>why do so many leaders get their knickers in a twist over whether a boy or an adult is in full uniform or not?

>>Usually they all recite the Cub Scout promise. When the Webelos take their turn at recognition, they usually start out by saying the Boy Scout Oath.

>>Our second year Webelos recite the boy scout oath at pack meetings because they are supposed to. It's in their Webelos handbook. They are supposed to learn that as well as the scout law, motto, slogan, and outdoor code.

There is a popular debate in the motorcycle community right now about using brakes with the ABS (Anti-lock Braking System). Many experience motorcyclists believe that practicing and using the brakes without ABS correctly is safer than developing habits of relying on brakes added with a new complex computer system that could fail. I listen to folks on both side of the debate and wonder why so many folks think in terms of either/or? Being prepared is learning how to use all the tools available. A leader doesnt have to take away a scout's knife to teach him the safe and proper use of an axe. Barry

>>Another thing that units should do is have the treasurer be from a different household than either the CC or SM.

Sure, the scouts can add and take from their accounts anytime they like. They may take some money for a weekend campout fees or summercamp. She also had to monitor each account and know who was usong their accounts for summer camp or other scout activities and make sure everyone had enough for each camp payment. She guesses she processed somewhere around 50 thousand checks for the troop. We started the individual scout accounts back when we had around 15 scouts. I don't think anyone envisioned 95 Active scouts eight years later. And, that didn't include nonactive scouts who were still registered. While the individual accounts are a good thong, they can be a book keeping nightmare. The scouts could use their money for anything scouting. Food, equipment, camp fees or even their uniform. They could not take it with them, so we encourage them to use their money. But a lot of scouts left some money and that added up. We had at least three fund raisers a year so the scouts had every opportunity to pay their way. The troop rarely did fundraisers for itself. A trailer fund raiser was the last one I remember. We had the most active group of 14 and older scouts in the council, so they stayed pretty busy. Just goes to show, if you build a good boy run program , they will come. Barry

It's not hard, while I was SM, we averaged four hi-adventure trips, one Big summer camp, several fundraisers where the money went into scout accounts and just general stuff like replacing equipment each year. So with camp deposits alone, a troop could be holding A LOT of money. It's not like a scout's check is sent strait to camp as soon as he pays. Camps want one big check at a time, so the troop collects the fees over time until the camp check is sent. My wife was our troop treasure and a CPA. She said because of individual scout accounts, the troop by far was the most difficult client she had. By the way, scouts were not allowed to take their accounts with them when they left the troop. That is a very sizable chunk of change in a bigger troop. Barry

What is your council BP. Bsrry

Yes, while I dont agree with BP to what makes a Scout unit successful, I do agree with him that our Council struggles with the Venturing program. BP says its a Council problem, not national. Maybe, but Ive been shown otherwise and havent seen anything new to prove different. I only say that to suggest that program quality flows down hill which suggest the possibly that National is struggling with Venturing and it's bleeding into the Councils. My experience through the years has convinced me that the success of younger scout age units is dependent on the quality of the older scout age program. I would like to learn more about BPs Council. Whats the name of your Council BP. Barry

>>Or do you consider Tenderfoot requirement No. 1 a lazy and impatient requirement?

>>If anyone from National told you crews are folding faster than troops are full of it, the facts show otherwise.

>>Barry I am willing to bet that your failed crews were probably run by former scoutmasters who ran them like a troop keeping all the power for themselves,and the teens got bored and left. If a Venturing Crew is run like it is outlined in the VLM and you let the teens REALLY lead and organize the program to their interests then you will be successful. Your area is not typical of Venturing in most well run and Venturing friendly councils. A Venturing Crew and a Boy Scout Troop are really very different programs in scope and purpose.

Normal for that age. You didn't say but its also normal to see a changing attitude of the uniform. This is the age where young men are finding themselves and the changing seems to stabilize between 15 and 16 years old. And in general, you will see him start to behave in many ways like his parents. Barry

>> IMO, if the boy scout program had more of the Venturing methodology incorporated into it the BSA would not be losing all the boy scouts it does each year currently.

Personally I don't think the BSA is sitting between a rock and a hard place, I think they are in good postion. Moose and most here on this forum sensitive to the more liberal causes are examples of while many folks don't agree with all BSA policies, they are joining for the other benefits because nobody else does scouting as good or better. They aren't willing to throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak. Oh I'm sure there is a small group of folks willing to let the issues sway them away, but I personally believe most of BSA's membership issues are a result BSA internal problems. Barry

>>I know you're obsessed with your rants against "helicopter Scouters," but you might try actually studying the Scouting program first

>>That was a group that was on one playing field, and jumped to the other playing field. But not a group that both conservatives & Liberals agreed at the same time was running things just fine..

>>Problem is there is no middle ground.. Pick a side, and the other half of the world will hate you

>>Uniforming offers the most obvious target for nitpickers. The Scout oath also recommends being "helpful, friendly, courteous and kind," but these recommendations are frequently ignored when the nitpickers choose to indulge themselves.

>>When I was with the federal lab I was a team leader. I didn't much like it though. I had to deal with too many team members who were too much like me (obstinate, contrary, loose cannons). The worst of it was that most of them were contractors so while I had to make sure the work was done, I had no direct influence over them. They knew it and told me so...the federal employees often had to take up the slack. To me the 'privatization' of this function was a terribly destructive idea.>I guess I'm willing to accept that a real leader might have an innate leadership skill. But I think that most times, it takes some perspective and experience, even if the latent skills are present, for a person to be a great leader.

We dumped this on the SPL, meaning that he was going to be responsible for the solution we came up with together. The SPL didnt have a problem with stricter guidelines in this area because he was also dealing with bad behavior and lethargic scouts from the junk food problem. Most of what we discussed was information (ammunition) for explanation of his changes. This is going to sound corny, but I presented him with several sources of BSA literature that stated the adults were responsible for the scouts health and safety, and nutrition is part of the responsibility. If the boys couldnt handle the responsibility of scout health in their boy run troop, the adults would be forced to step in the troop would be less boy run. As I said, none of this was difficult for the SPL because he wanted to deal with the problem, we just needed a way to approach the problem so the scouts would be part of the fix. The discussion then went to how we could keep the fun side of eating without it getting out of control. We came up with guidelines like only two liters of coke for the whole patrol on the whole campout. This force the scouts to plan which meal they wanted the coke. Same goes with the other junk food. Strangely we found that the patrols didnt bring coke much after that because even though we are talking a car camping problem, we are a backpacking troop and still had to pack the liter bottles to camp which was a pain. Everyone can pack a can, but a liter? Now I know this doesnt fix the problem with individuals bringing more food, but it helped a lot because the scouts actually understood the problem and the parents wanted to help the SPL as well. BUUUTTT I want to add that we had an experience at one campout several years ago that change most scouts attitude of bringing personal junk food. It was a loud girl like shrill one night from a scout running from his tent as fast as he could. A skunk had clawed through his tent to get his snacks in his pack. After that, the PLC for years-on basically warned all new scouts of the risk and would relate that story to any scout who contested the wisdom. And we didnt have much of a problem anymore, at least with abuse of junk food anyway. Good luck. Barry