Eagledad

>>So, how do you monitor the counselors? How do you know if they arw doing what tey are supposed to be doing?

Patrol strength comes from the members of the group relying on each other for a successful group outcome. That requires each member to be challenged so that each ones growth and accomplishment work together for a team success. Look at your program in those terms. Think how you can add even a little tiny little challenge in each activity that forces the members to act as a group. I used to make up little excuses to ask the SPL for patrols to vote on this or that just to force them to act as a team. Something like voting to leave for camp at 6:00 or 6:30. The subject wasn't that important to me or the troop, but it was one little team building action. So get in the habit looking for opportunities that force the patrols to be, well a patrol. I learned that the more intense the activity or the higher the goal, the faster patrols bond. Quite by accident I found that laser tag is a fast team building activity. The quick intense laser tag sessions required the members to quickly volunteer into positions where they would work best as a team, and then quickly strategizing a plan for success. This is where the true leaders popped out. I know we can't do laser tag now, but you get the point. The troop program offers lots of opportunities to force scouts to grow if you just use them. I think "Time" is one of the troop programs best motivators of challenging patrols to grow. A schedule of 7:30 am reveille, 8:30 troop assembly, 8:40 troop or patrol activities forces patrols to work as a team to complete breakfast and be at assembly on time. And how about breaking camp? Surely they can do better. Once you see the patrols reaching those goals, give the SPL some excuse to tighten up the schedule just a bit. Keep the scouts challenged, if just a little. Our Troop of 80 can start breaking camp and be loading cars in 45 minutes. Can any of your troops do better than that? That requires patrols working together. I saw the outcome of this with a patrol at Philmont. The patrol wanted to do certain activities on the trail like fishing and they knew if they didnt get up and go early enough, they wouldnt have time for the activities. So they, not the adults, planned the night before a how work as a team and get on the trial an hour before sunrise. Since when does a teenage boy want to get up that early? It was fun to watch. But when you see scouts planning a strategy to work as a team for success, you have a strong group. Your plan is a good start, but dont be afraid to challenge the scouts. They wont mind the struggle if the work is fun and goals are worth it. Think of ways to force them as a patrol. Lots of little things can add up to get you that one big thing. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

This is a fantastic topic. I have some experience with your idea and there are some challenges. First we must understand the difference between your troops is not the scouts, it's the adults. I'm not suggesting one is worse than the other, just different like those different at music or golf than others. Some adults are better at some aspects of scouting. The challenge is that it doesn't matter what new skills the scouts take home, the adults don't know how let them in the program. They aren't being mean, they just don't understand the point. I fixed this at JLTC (today's NYLT) by requiring at least one adult leader spend half of the last day of training with their scout. In fact, I have come to believe we would go a lot farther sending SMs to NYLT instead of the scouts because they would understand better what we want the scouts to learn. The adults have to participate with the scout to have real impact on the troop program. The first problem I found with the SPL RT was getting both the scouts and adults to understand why. What is the point of taking more of someones time if they don't see the advantages? Does troop 111 really have a problem that they "want" fix? Every troop thinks they have a good boy run program, how are you going to convince they can be better? Second big problem for me was boys time. Even the best SPLs are busy. Adding one more scouting activity is a challenge. So it better be worth it. I learned the shorter the better. Minutes, not hours. That goes for adults too. They need to walk away excited to try the new idea. I hope I'm not discouraging you because SPL RTs is a great idea, but it will require a dedicated program leader for at least two years if not three. Keep it very simple for the next leader to take over and create simple documentation to refer back to and hold the program to it's intended boundaries. One last thing, unit visits is another wonderful idea. Visiting five troops was one of my ticket items and I got so much from it that I encouraged it when I was a Wood Badge Patrol counselor. Great subject. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>We have to remember that our program is run by amateur volunteers, many of them coming in with no Scouting background at all and no idea of what Scouts do -- they just want to help and do something good for their kids. And I think BSA gives us an organization, administrative burdens, and even a program that is ridiculously complicated.

>>Mixed age by contrast feels more like family. There's more a sense of mentoring like Eagle92 describes, and of growin' into responsibility and leadership rather than being elected into it. More a sense of being part of something long-lasting. Also a bit better behavior and safety-wise. Good folks can make either approach work, eh? But in terms of da sort of kid outcomes I care about, mixed-age has always seemed a bit stronger and more natural.

>>Maybe all we need is a couple of ad hoc babysitters that tag along to drink coffee and cover the 2-deep insurance requirements adopted by BSA.

>>Kinda makes one wonder how in the world BSA survived the Great Depression?, the wars when the men went off to fight, etc. etc.

>>So, since you "solicited" her for this task, knowing she had a newborn infant, I have to wonder what you expected her to do.

>>How would you go about intentionally killing a troop vs. letting it die?

>>You either need that personality A type, or you need the group as a whole to move together.. The "I will, if they will"..

I personally, with the blessing of the Key 3, tried to kill one of the districts oldest troops when I was district membership chair. The leaders in the troop where an embarrassment to the council, much less the district. Problem was the troop committee was ran by two very kind older gentlemen who were scouts in that troop as kids and they just couldn't let go. They were also prominent volunteers on district and council committees. The plan was to kill it so the gentlemen would be forced to change their registration then bring it back under a new CO and leadership. But I failed and the troop is still a struggle for the district 18 years later. Barry

>> End of story.

What next, pull out the Iphone to play Sudoku? Anything that is a distraction takes away from the Scouts EBOR. I think feeding the baby from a bottle would be just as distracting. Sure nobody said anything, it's awkward. But I think mom should have excused herself or planned the feeding around the review. I would suggest briefing future volunteers to plan any personal business around EBOR so as not to distract or show disrespect to the scout. Barry(This message has been edited by eagledad)

>>Well now it's time for the aftermath

Its funny but Girl Scouts is asking the same question of women. I can name three families off the top of my head where mom just packed up her bags and left dad with the kids. Im not talking about divorce, this was abandonment. So I cant say if this is really a male problem. We live in a culture where responsibility isnt considered a virtue. Mediocrity is encouraged and self centeredness is rewarded. As I have said in other post, values being encouraged in our culture today are anti-family. I guess some folks consider that progress. I dont know if the lack of willing male volunteers is a result of bringing in more female volunteers or if its just another indicator of our progressive culture. I am thankful for the female volunteers because we would have far fewer boys in scouting without them. However, it would be interesting to learn what the BSA would have looked like today had it not started accepting female leaders in troops. See, I personally cant remember if dads were more willing to volunteer back when I was a youth. It doesnt seem that different to me. I'm not saying men aren't different today, our culture has different expectations. But I just don't know if they aren't volunteering as much. Barry

>>I think what pchadbo is looking for are suggestions on how to change the culture of a group from not getting involved, to feeling that everyone has a responsibility to do their fair share to make it work..

>>Different units have different personalities because of these kinds of things. Personally, I generally consider that to be a good thing.

>>Setting an example is a powerful way to affect group and individual behavior. So does providing a neckerchief and slide for new Scouts so they can be "in uniform" from their first meeting.

>>Like all da Methods of Scouting, though, it's easy to accidentally turn the Method into the Goal, and when we do that we lose our way. For some reason, Uniforming and Advancement are particularly susceptible to adults inadvertently turning them into goals,

>>The inbetween detail stuff I am not good at mainly because of a life-long lack of organization and way too many irons in the fire to tend each one properly.

>>I want our campsite at summer camp to be the house in the neighborhood where all the kids want to hang out. So we take all the toys. We haul tons of leatherwork and carving tools, last year we built our own tamahawk throwing range, this year we're adding a slackline. Our guys hang around camp playing cards and other games every night, so we take every Coleman lantern we can find.

>>If I was hiking with this...man oh man ... it would be a long backbreaking hike.

I like to hunt.

Umm, Philmont coffee has Tabasco and cinnamon. Cobbler has lots of butter. Barry

Hey thanks Horizon, peach for me as well and is that Philmont coffee. Pass the tabasco. Barry