Eagledad

>>Sorry my friend but your analysis of Scouts Canada is mostly rumors and innuendos instead of truth.

>>Numbers trending down gradually toward zero while number of available youth has doubled in the same time. This is not a good trend.

>>By that time, they're usually ready for a troop guide or instructor role which has higher stature and less pressure.

>>Getting a boy to commit to 12 months is a big commitment so I can see why your PLC didn't like the idea of a 12 month commitment.

Very Good, thank you. Barry

>>It would be nice if BSA took the time to perform market research on people who are not currently in the scouts and adapted accordingly. It might stop BSA's plummeting spiral into the membership abyss.

>>So what your saying is your troop elects an SPL for 12 months and they know that the first 6 months is a learning period. After the 12 months they are out because another one is waiting in the wings. So you don't allow the Scouts to reelect their SPL. Why? Seems like something an adult would construct not a 12 year old boy. Wouldn't that be against the idea that the Scouts can elect their own leader and can reelect them as many times as they would like?

>>I'd say that often that's because the WEBELOS Den Leader has a program of age appropriate den hiking and camping and reasonably close association with the program of one or more Boy Scout troops. I would say that a WDL who is an experienced outdoor person or former Boy Scout has a real leg up in carrying out that kind of program.

>>Again the idea is to get them the tools so they can do the program which accomplishes the Aims. That's the purpose of the T2F requirements.

>>However, that's perfectly ok. There is no reason that a person without direct scouting experience can't make a good Webelos Den Leader, If they are willing to pick up new skills, and reach out for assistance.

Just an observation bnelon44, but a quote you wrote in another thread: >>Focusing on any rank, including Eagle is getting your eye off the goal. Your making advancement an end in itself. But that isn't the goal. The goal is character development, citizenship training, and mental and physical fitness.

>>Well my comment on the order of the scout oath was sarcasm that was saying pretty much the same thing. I figured those who push the moral values as the reason to exclude homosexuals would have argued about how the while the order in the Girl Guides meant something, the order of the scout oath did not. So "morally straight" was not because it was the least important.

>>Focusing on any rank, including Eagle is getting your eye off the goal. Your making advancement an end in itself. But that isn't the goal. The goal is character development, citizenship training, and mental and physical fitness..>Too many parents think the goal is to get Eagle and then get out and have their sons do other things, maybe things they think are more important (like sports.) I think one of our jobs is to explain to them what the real goals are.

I like this kind of thinking, but it can already be going in the present program. I've said before the quality of the older scouts is a direct reflection of the rest of the program. We strive to make the troop program a progression of leadership experiences. I wasn't really sure how well it worked until I spoke with a Star transfer. His SM in another part of the state told me he was one of their best scouts. The scout told me he was very intimidated by our youth leadership because they were so far advanced from his old troop. Our district OA representative told us the reason the last three Lodge chiefs came from our troop was because they knew how plan activities and run meetings. Our troop isn't special, we just made sure every position in the troop develop some kind of leadership skills. We never had a bugler, but if we did, we would identify some skills for him to practice. Typically a new scout starts out as a Grub Master or Cheer Master because those positions require just enough practice with planning, communication, and directing, for the maturity of a 10 year old. Patrol QM is the next step requiring a little more maturity and experience with the APL requiring a little experience. Same goes with troop PLC positions. You can use scribes and historians as entry level positions stepping up to more responsibility with Quarter Master and ASPL. The TG, SPL, and JASM were our most mature positions, but each troop can design their own leadership progressions. The hard part is identifying the skills the scouts should practice in each position, and stepping up the challenges as they get older and more experienced. If you do that through your whole troop program, you will have a culmination of learning experiences for the Eagle as well as senior leaders. And they didn't even know it because it was all part of a clever little scheme of learning while they did the fun scouting stuff. A progressive learning program require a liitle work up front, but nothing near as hard as getting National to enhance the Eagle program. I love this scouting stuff. Barry(This message has been edited by Eagledad)

>>If we can go five minutes without mindless blather about values - an empty word on its own - I would appreciate it

>>My quibble is that it reverses the traditional order of Belief, Community, Self. The best way to find yourself is to help others, make the world a better place, and not concentrate on your on belly button so much.

What is BSA still doing right: Mission statement Vision statement Scout Law and Oath Three Aims and Eight Methods. I know those are a bit idealistic, but when used as intended, they provide the best youth scouting program in the world. Personally I'm still impressed by it. Barry

>>The big question is: How do we keep the original scouting tradition alive but have a program that meets the desires of our modern youth? If we don't find the answer, I'm afraid we wont have a program to share the traditions with.

We had a couple scouts leave because they were looking for a fast track Eagle program. Yes I hated to see them go, they were good scouts. We got two types of transfers: First were older scouts looking for more adventure and independence. The other were awkward or handicap scouts who didn't fit in other troops. Barry

>>Heh, heh! Now that you mention it, I would like to see a troop arrive for summer camp that pile out of a Greyhound style bus, followed by a 14 wheeler packing their gear! I'd be hustling over to this discussion board to report that event, you can be sure!

I have never seen it either. The parents who wanted to bring siblings in our troop stayed a public camp down the road. Barry

>>A secondary complaint he had was the same old "car camping" experiences. The boy-led PLC was not adventurous when planning campouts. In his 2 years with the Troop, owning a backpack was not really necessary. While I agree with the boy-led concept, you need adult advisors that are willing to coach the boys to consider more physically challenging outdoor treks and have adults that are willing to accompany the boys on these treks.

>>This really comes down to basic personal hygiene. Parents, talk to your kids -

>>One correction: I think I have been careful NEVER to write anything that "clearly defines (my) feelings of religious principles and for those who believe in them

>>Religion, lads, is the only thing that has ever brought people together in groups beyond race/ethnicity/tribe/political caste/economics, and the only thing that has ever tempered the darker and more destructive nature of those other beliefs.