Eagledad

I find these boycotts like the ones against Chik fil A, Disney, and Dixie Chicks fascinating. Not on a political basis, but on a humanity basis. I admit I enjoy observing human behavior and these boycotts are very interesting. Im not a fan of Chik Fil A, I only eat there as a last resort like after an Oklahoma State Night Football game where Chik Fil a is about the only restaurant in Stillwater open to get a quick meal before the hour drive back home. Say what you want, Chik Fil A knows how to put out a lot of food in a short time. However my kids are crazy about them. Two of my adult kids camped overnight at Chik Fil A one year for an opening day promotion of a one years free sandwiches for the first 100 or so customers. I was surprised by the big response to Chik Fil A because most of their customers are younger folks. I thought it was the younger generation that was accepting of gays, so I assumed the boycott would be a success because of that. But what I heard was that its not so much that the younger adults support gays, they just arent against them. Its more of a to each their own attitude. What bothered these young folks was being told what they should and shouldnt eat based on political correctness. Especially about a subject that isnt important to their lives. OK, that is so simplistic, Im still trying to understand it. However one thing seems for sure, if the activist cant get the younger geeneration to jump on board, then I don't see how it can go anywhere. We will have to wait and see. So now Im thinking about the Dixie Chicks boycott. Again I was not a fan because I dont really like Country or Western music, even though Ive own horses and live in states where its acceptable for girls to wear Cowboy Boots and shorts at the same time. I found the Disxie Chick boycott an interesting observation of human behavior because the bands base completely abandon them. Yet, folks who didnt really care for their music made a couple of their records number one. Wow, not that is some activism on both sides. Talk about emotion, but that is another discussion. The Dixie Chick boycott is also interesting because once everything settled down, the band disappeared. The boycott worked because they lost the base. That really surprised me because the bands popularity came from both the Pop music crowed and the County /Western crowd. I would have thought the Pop folks would have kept them alive. Adding to that, I learned that in a lot of cases, bands dont survive on record sales because record companies take such a big cut. Concerts are bands big money and marketing producers. Dixie Chicks record sales success wasnt enough to counter the cancelled concerts. Maybe the question there is how long can activism support last where their is no real desire for the product? I dont know why, but that shocked me. The Dixie Chicks went from the top to the bottom in a matter of months because of a boycott. Then there is the Disney boycott. Has it affected Disney? Doesnt appear so, but anyone who visits Disney parks notices a large number of attendees are foreigners. It would be interesting to poll all the attendees to learn how many even know of the boycott. At the same time, wouldnt it also be interesting to learn how many of them who know of and agree with the prinicple behind the boycott still attended the park? We will have to wait a while to see how the Chik Fil A boycott really pans out. But after learning about the attitude of some young folks I read about, I kind of wonder if it is going the way of the Disney boycott. Just not enough interested folks willing to give up their delicious sandwich. I just assumed that the boycott would hurt the restaurant because of its popularity of the younger demographic. But are we miss understanding the younger generation. Is the general attitude for homosexuality to be accepting only up to the point that its not inconvenient? Also, I wonder if that where the base of the gay movement wanted to go all along? If that is the case, and Im not saying it is, but if hypothetically the younger generation only accepts homosexuality as long as it doesnt get in their way, how could that affect the BSA? I guess that is the question some assume they already know. But maybe the Chicken boycott is a better indicator than emotional assumptions. I will have to watch and listen to my kids to learn more. There is a lot of stuff here, does anyone else see this as interesting? Barry

>>Don't know if it's a good one or not as my feeling is that the CS leaders will get into the habit of running something at the troop meeting, then when the Cubs do cross over, keep it up when they need to let go.

The Troop we visited was not a feeder troop even though it was my Troop. In the end most of those Webelos joined different troops, so I don't think feeder pack or even different troop is an issue. Including the troop where we held our meetings, we visited six different troops. It almost seems like folks are looking for reasons to not do this. If you would rather not, I fully understand and support that decision. But it is pretty simple idea that does work. Just ask a few Troops if they have the room and are willing to give a few meetings a try. I everyone involved will find it easy. Barry

>>You could do this with 1st year webelos too. In fact, I think it would help the most if you start it with 1st year webelos.

>>that is exactly what we do....

>>I don't think any organization, or point of view, has a monopoly on anger as expressed in this forum. There's quite a lot of it to go around.

>>You start your own organization Scouting USA or such. Fine. Problem is, you are LOCKED OUT of all program materials, ALL uniform standards, ALL ranks in use by BSA to include the Eagle. BSA owns copyright on ALL of those things

>>As they should have, Barry. If our goal is to teach young men to be good citizens; that "obedience" includes working to change things you don't like, then this Scout and Bando should be applauded for having well-learned a basic lesson of Scouting.

>>I stood up in front of over a hundred people at my Eagle COH, some six months or so after the SCOTUS Dale decision, and clearly voiced my opposition to the LGBTQ membership policy.

>>So why does the Girls scout program stink????

We've had a few families transfer out and a few join after they realize that their goals and expectations didn't match the program. I'm with Fred and Lisa in that finding a troop without the drama and that still fits your needs is likely the best way to go. I do understand the struggle and hurt of leaving friends, but with strong support from the family, your son will have a great experience in another troop. And as others have said, it is likely the friends will want some of those experiences as well. I wish you well, I hate adult drama. Barry

>>He knows that I strongly disapprove of body piercing. Despite that he went behind my back and had his nipples pierced. I was hurt that he did this behind my back and hid the fact.

Hi all My wife and I took a train from Oklahoma City to Ft Worth with some friends last weekend and on the train with us were Girls Scouts. I dont know their age, but I would guess about 10 years old. It was interesting listening to other passengers talk about the girls, they didnt know what group the girls belonged with. Until you got close enough to read Girl Scouts on their green T-shirt, they just looked like any other group of girls with the same color T-shirts. That got me reflecting back on a movie Dodgeball. Its a silly movie about adults playing a professional version of the game Dodge ball. In the movie, the rag tag group of adults have to play a Troop of Girl Scouts to qualify for the National tournament. Those Girls Scouts were dressed in the old Traditional Girl Scout uniform, not T-shirts. There was no doubt of their organization. I've read on this forum in the past about changing the Boy Scout uniforms to a more progressive Polo Shirt style that would present a better image to the public. Ive thought about that a lot and wondered if the Boy Scouts really needed an new uniform image. I'm from a different generation and so who knows, but I now think it would be huge mistake. I remember taking our scouts into restaurants while traveling to camps and activities and it was typical for other restaurant patrons to walk over and visit the scouts. Folks just dont go walking over to teenage boys to chat. They had a common interest with these boys and they wanted to talk about it. Most ask where the scouts came from, but in general stories of their scouting experiences squeeze into the discussion. Once a truck driver stopped to talk with our scouts during a gas stop to appologize for the t-shirt she was wearing imply something about sex postions. It was the uniform that motivated a total stranger to approach a group of total strangers to appologize for her behavior. Back to the Dodge Ball movie, it is obvious that the producers were more comfortable with the old school Girl Scout uniforms to identify the organization. The uniform says it without additinal dialoge. I dont think they felt a green T-shirt would pull off the same effect. I also believe this about the boy scout uniform as well. I see the Boy Scout uniform used in TV shows and movies a lot to imply a boy scouting organization. Many times the name of the group is something other than Boy Scouts, but the uniform is still a very close copy of the present BSA Boy Scout uniform. I dont know where this idea that a simple Polo Shirt would give the BSA a better image than the more traditional uniform worn today. After listening to the passengers on the train, I know that the Girl Scouts have not improved their image. Folks dont recognize them now. Now one last thing, to be fair I admit best image scouts can present to the public comes from their actions, not the uniform. I know this from an experience when our troop of 80 very smelly dirty scouts and adults going home from a week of summer camp and a day of white rafting stopped at a busy Pizza Hut in a small town in the Texas panhandle. Because we didnt plan well that day, we were only wearing what we wore for white water rafting. Nothing indicated we were a troop of Boy Scouts. Truth was we adults were a little embarrassed with our dirty smelly group. Anyway, to give each group a break, the adults sat on the opposite side of the restaurant from the scouts and we didnt really pay attention to the scouts side. About 15 minutes after we arrived, the manager of the Pizza Hut brought several pitchers of soft drinks and pizzas to the adult table. When we told him we had not ordered yet, he said that our scouts were so well behaved that the first $100 of pizzas and drinks were on the house. What really stood out to him was how the 60 or so scouts responded instantly to the SPL putting up his sign to get their attention. I threw that in to be fair. But my point is the same. I think the best uniform image the BSA can present to the public is the traditional uniform. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

When we were trying to get the Webelos part of program back up to speed, we wanted them stand out as special more mature scouts that the younger cubs would look forward to joining in their future. I can't remember how, but we came up with boony hats for the Webelos. Booney hats are the military hat soldier where in the field to protect them from the and rain. The can be dropped in the mud, ran over by a car, worn though the rainyest crew trip and still look almost new after one washing. The are so durable that my 29 and 25 year old sons still have their Webelos boony hat. In fact, they wore them on our troop high adventure trips. Anyway there are, or were, at least a dozen different colors and camouflage styles. They couldn't have worked better, the Webelos wore them with pride and the younger ages couldn't wait to be Webelos. I saw the pack not to long ago and the tradition is still going. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

I'm Turtle, I don't get it. The CC protects the vision or program objective. Gotta know what that objective is. The CC does their best to deligate (recruit) the best person they can get for each volunteer responsibility. And that's kind of it. Protect that vision and recruit, recruit, recruit. Don't worry about keeping track of advancement, recruit someone to do that. Just make sure the volunteer is trained and doing the job correctly. Don't worry about the Pinewood Derby, just ask the Pinewood chair to give a report at each monthly meeting. The hardest working CCs don't recruit very well and don't understand the volunteers responsibilities. Good luck and have fun with the position. It's very rewarding. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Sure, here is a very common one that is tough. The Scout Handbook describes how and when a scout is suppose to wear the uniform. What if he chooses not to follow the handbook? What if the troop leadership decided to not follow the handbook policy? This is not a uniform discussion, its an ethical discussion. So don't be distracted by those who want to turn the discussion into uniform debate. I presented this to my scouts and they found it very challenging. By the way, I never gave them an answer. I only asked more questions and left it up to them to ponder ethics. Barry

>>I apologize if I have insulted anyone's faith; that was certainly not my intent. But it is just as insulting to my beliefs and values when people on your side call gays and lesbians "not normal, "troubled" or "immoral.">Yet you feel compelled to force every Scout and Scouter obey your God on this issue.>If my faith compels me to accept homosexuality as normal and yours does not, why does yours win out?>Your arguments about why your God orders you to believe X carry no weight with me.

>>If you can give me a reason without quoting religious texts......... I simply want to hear a line of argument that is intellectually honest, because I'm very skeptical that one exists.

>>>> >>Yet your morality and religious doctrine outweighs my morality and religious doctrine.

>> You can quote the Bible all you want, but Scouting is not a Christian organization.

>>Yet your morality and religious doctrine outweighs my morality and religious doctrine.

Yes but there is a moral obligation to not accepting gays in the BSA. Matthew 18:6 "but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. You don't have to be religious to understand that if a troubled young scout is struggling with his sexual identity, acceptance of gay role models could tilt him to choose a wrong or destructive direction. Sadly, its politically incorrect to speak of homosexuality as a destructive lifestyle in todays culture, but that doesnt change the moral obligation for those who dont believe its normal. A person with any doubt that homosexuality is normal should certainly consider the consequenses of being involved with an organization that encourages it as acceptable or normal. Barry

>>On the other hand, I don't think that parents of new scouts are well positioned to intervene with PLs on advancement issues or general program stuff.>I'm all for scouts leading scouts and needing to struggle a little to learn, but PL, ASPL, SPL or any "offical" adult leader in attendance had not checked on this patrol close enough to figure out they were having food safety issues in their patrol!

>>My inclination would be to find the previous Scoutmaster a new job in Scouting outside contact with the Scouts.

>>Survived and as a whole the campout was good. NSP worked well as a team (for the most part) and scouts were successful in completing many advancement requirements for TF and a couple items for 2nd class and one for 1st class. .. 1) SM was gone all weekend with older boys on a Trek (dropped off AM on Sat and picked up Sun PM), a committee member was left in charge of base camp. Not much adult leadership other than making sure the scouts didn't kill each other.