Eagledad

The best way to recruit is for someone to personally recruit each individual. Some folks are good at that skill and can fill up the roster quite easily, I am such a person and I kept fresh energetic blood constantly flowing in the committee. We also used a nominating committee, but the committee is only as good as the known resources. You are going to have to get out meet people. I always ask units who where their most energetic leaders with new ideas. All units have at least one, so I would go personally meet them to learn their skills and ask them on the committee. Don't wait for volunteers to come, go out there and get them. Barry

Make no mistake, running large events is not easy and it takes a lot of time. It's hard to find consistent volunteers who can and will give that much of themselves. To continue consistent yearly district activities, our district started asking Wood Badgers to do them for one of their ticket items. When they started to see the quality of the activities falling because the Wood Badge experience doesn't make one a good organizer, they started handing over the responsibilities over to the troops. I didn't let our troop fall into that trap when I was SM, but the district is still trying to use the method of volunteerism. All I can say is without some passion for a successful event, these things sometimes struggle. It's nice to see stoshs four scouts come up with better ideas for running a camporee. But these things do require a great deal of human resources and if organizers aren't to accept adult resources, the game is over because there aren't enough youth resources to fill in the blanks. Take this from someone who has designed and worked with boy run district activities as well as the Boy Run NYLT (JLTC). The only Boy Run version ever done in the nation as far as I know. Part of the problem with Camporees today is that they don't have any real purpose. They aren't appealing to scouts because the purpose of campoerees is to show off their skills. They have to practice and troops today don't do that without a lot of push by the adults. Honestly this is one casualty of boy run. Camporees that do well are the ones with new ideas. Ours did well because it was a night campotee. Another district did a back packing camporee that went very well. The participants had to pack up and hike to a new camp. On their way they had to compete in other skills. Our troop once added canoeing and biking to a internal troop patrol-o-ree? Our guys were exhausted by the end of the weekend because they were having so much fun. Fun camporees are possible, but it does take some work. Barry

Quite by accident, I stumbled on this opinion piece from the NY Times of how our kids are being taught morality. In light of the homosexual discussion, I thought it worth passing along. ""In summary, our public schools teach students that all claims are either facts or opinions and that all value and moral claims fall into the latter camp. The punchline: there are no moral facts. And if there are no moral facts, then there are no moral truths."" http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/02/why-our-children-dont-think-there-are-moral-facts/?_r=0 Barry

It wasn't an answer to Tykes question, it was a completion of the of the scripture he was using for an example. My quote (without any interpretation) only provided the scripture as a whole. The real shame is that you used your misinterpretation of my quote as well as your own interpretation to disparage those who use the bible as guidance in this moral issue. As I asked before, are you capable of holding an opinion without denigrating those you disagree? Can one be respectful and still disagree? Barry

Oh Moose, that you believe it shows how lost you are with your own religion. The Bible doesn’t force us to make the choice between being a martyr or hypocrite. But you wouldn’t know that, you only google enough of the bible to use it as a sword. In your ignorance, you can’t see it as a shield. You keep talking about my interpretation of the scripture I posted, but I didn’t give an interpretation. You gave one and put my name on it to make your point. You deceptively used my words to further your agenda. I wonder, could you sway people to your position without denigrating or being deceptive? I believe the bible is an instruction book for how adults are to behave around children. I have told my kids that many times hoping that they would understand the true significant of the responsibility as adults to raising youth. A couple is situations have occurred recently that reinforces to me how adult behavior can affect a culture of youth. First, I meet my with high school teacher son most Saturday mornings for breakfast at the diner. They grow up so fast. Anyway he told me recently that one of his close gay teacher friends is no longer gay. She met a man and is having a wonderful relationship with him now. I asked him if that means she is bi-sexual. He asked her that very question and she said no. She is now heterosexual. They are close, but he left the discussion at that. The second thing that happen which really has me afraid of the present cultural situation is a discussion I read somewhere. The discussion was the legal ramifications in a subject of abortion, but abortion isn’t the point here, moral responsibility is. So please don’t go off on that rabbit trail. Anyway, there are some states (maybe all) that if driver is found at fault for killing the unborn baby of the mother in the other car, the person can be tried for manslaughter of that baby and sent to jail. But it was found in this situation that the mother was driving to an abortion clinic to kill her unborn baby. You can understand the complexity of the subject. Btu for me, it was very simple and very scary. As I said, I believe the bible is a guideline to how adults are supposed to behave around kids. How does one explain morality in a culture with such contradicting views of life? We have made the responsibility for life so insignificant, that there is no way to explain it to our youth that makes any moral sense. Even an atheist would struggle here, It bothers me a lot because I don’t see how an adult can explain it without going off on some political rant. How terrifying it must be to a young person when life means more than just an agenda for the next election cycle. I was telling my son at breakfast that kids in my day didn’t have these issues or conflicts. It wasn’t all that long ago. You are lucky Moose that you believe in only the one scripture where you are saved through Jesus Christ. Good for you, it is a safe place. But, if you ever dare decide to ponder through the rest of the bible to gain some wisdom, you will learn why Jesus tells us to sin no more. The bible explains that sin is a self-serving act which is usually destructive to those around us. You only have to hold a crying scout who just learned of their parent’s divorce to see how devastating it is to them. They don’t fully recover; their lives are changed forever, usually for the worse. I’ve seen it because I am at the age where the hundreds of scouts, soccer players, baseball, and other youth I’ve guided in the past are now adults. I’ve seen how their lives were affected by their adults around them. A culture is important because it supposed protects its youth by setting boundaries that prevent us from making wrong choices when we are weak. Who among us here haven’t had a time in our lives when we were confused and our emotions were whirling around so much that we couldn’t tell up from down, much less right from wrong. But now our culture not only allows our youth to act on their emotions, it is encouraged. Who knows why my sons friend made her choice about here sexual perference when she was young, but I think it likely she didn’t have the right role models around her. How many lonely confused young people looking for something to ease their pain are lead down the wrong path because the one person who gave them the time a day also was drowning in their own moral conflict. Just how much power do we as individuals have on the youth we are around. I have been told by several boys that they chose engineering because of me. I'm flattered, but what if they said they chose a lifestyle because of me. Just how responsible are we for the choices are youth make because of what we say and what we do? Accepting gay adults in the BSA program is all about accepting the wrong role models. The simple title of being gay could forever change the life of a boy who is in a weak place. When if comes down to it, homosexuality is a sexual lifestyle and that is too much influence for youth at this age in an organization where role modeling is a key element of boy growth. So, I don’t believe the BSA should bow down to the force of change from a culture that is fickle with sexuality. Scouting can be one of the safe places where a young confused and weak boy can rest from the pressures of the world. That is my pragmatic reason for the BSA to stay out of political cultural pressure. The youth are the future, activist don’t care about the scorched earth ruins they leave on of our sons and daughters, they only care about their agenda. Barry

Our troop has planned and run a Troop-o-ree and we had more troops there than your District had at camporee. Three of the troops were from scouters I met on the forum and were from out of the state. It was a night camporee under the Star Wars theme. They are a lot of work, but a lot of fun. Two of the troops we invited ran their own troop-o-ree the next year in their district. Barry

The answer is yes, religious believers can deny wrong role models from setting an example in front of youth and still follow Gods word. Barry

I misread your previous post. As to your other question; can a scout deny a bully from participating in a scouting activity and still live by the oath and law? Barry

I think what you are saying Moose is the BSA needs to take God out of the oath and Law. Barry

I'm sure you're right, but somewhere during his time with them he would say, "go and sin no more" (That's from John 8:11). Barry

Your being nieve tyke. Just because people have gay friends, neighbors, family, and work aquantences doesn't they believe it is right. This about a moral representation of BSA values. The BSAs Mission and Vision is developing boys into moral and ethical decision makers. Homosexuality conflicts with many folks morality standards.

It's just a way to get the (discussion?) going again. Both side are getting ready for battle. Hence the changes in the requirements. Sadly, the boys loose in the end because the BSA will suffer much more significant loses than gains. Barry

Ahhh!, now those are the memories that scouting is made of. Barry

I was speaking in general to the whole forum. Not specifically of any one subject or discussion. Barry

Possibly, but if we are willing to be civil while discussing any subject, providing antidotes and experiences that adds a little color within the rigid lines of opinion and expand our understanding. Some of us enjoy and expansion of the mind. Maybe the error here is we don't hold each other accountable to being friendly, courteous or kind. I get the feeling that many here think that while using the scout law as a reference sounds good for the boys, they believe it to be a silly juvenile way of suggesting behavior on an adult scouting forum. I try to base my actions here by my upbringing and understanding of the bible, but many here openly show disrespect for that reference. So how do we come to an understanding in any discussion? Barry

I just remembered at one summer camp where all the troops at morning flag assembly started singing (don't remember the song) while waiting for a troop that was late and thus holding up the program. I don't remember one single person who felt the camp had stepped out of bounds of the scout law. Certainly not me or our scouts, and our troop was the targeted late one. But only once. Honestly I think that had a lot more impact on our PLC than if the camp director had spoke privately to our SPL about the problem, which is how I would have handled it. Barry

What in the world are you talking about? I don't have a clue of what is going on between you and Sentinel. I was only responding to your comment that I highlighted. Barry

Seems like Oklahoma City has been experiencing it's fair share of disasters with the tornados and fires the last 20 years. The Scout units are always ready to jump in help, but FEMA doesn't allow the scouts to volunteer as scouts, at least in the work zone. Strangely individuals and other organizations are allowed to do the same work, but the scout units have to volunteer in the back ground through organizing drop offs for food and supplies. I don't remember the details and I'm not suggesting FEMA has a bias against scouts. It is frustrating because until about 25 years ago, our town annually ran a disaster simulation of which all scout units participated. Now the government is in control. Barry

I agree that it can be frustrating to debate experience with idealistic theory, and this forum is big on that. But that is no excuse to attempt a civil none intimidating discussion. I try to bow out of discussions when they get muddy and hope that my words stand on their own. However, I do remember that being used against me in this forum when a poster said several weeks later that I had agreed with her because I didn't respond to the point of her post. But I still feel I was on the higher road by not responding to the derogatory language in the discussion. I knew there was nothing I could add to change the direction of the discussion. Sometimes holding back pride takes the most courage. Barry

Yes, that is another example of bad form. These are examples of pride vs humility. My scouts would say that I'm big into humility because the trait is required to be a cheerful servant to others. I was delighted to see Sentinel express a form of humility when he said they would have to just agree to disagree. He didn't give up anything, he just bowed out when the discussion had reached it's end. At some point when it has become obvious we can no longer further our opinion and be a cheerful servant at the same time, we humbly relent, but without giving up our opinion or beliefs. Agreeing to disagree is the humble out. The hard part is not letting our pride drag us into a place where nobody benefits. That is why I’m big into the scout law. I enjoy good intellectual or civil discussions because they allow us to express ourselves without feeling intimidated. Sometimes we are wrong, can we learn that without getting put down. But a civil discussion does require a great deal of discipline, and as you point out an eloquent use of words is not necessarily intellectual. But the main point of humility is that your every action toward others is for the good of the others, not yourself. How would these discussions flow if every attempt of our words was to serve the audience? Maybe it would allow us just enough pause to just consider what the other person is actually saying. Do I fail in my attempts to make a point, most certainly. Stosh's misunderstood my words so badly that it would take a weeks worth of typing to correct his misunderstanding. It easier to just let him have the last word. There was a time that this forum was a great resource to help scouters improve their programs and it had a huge following of many hundreds. The forum lost that following when several folks started intimidating others through condescending attacks. I think I'm being fair in saying that. I would like to think we could back to day when the scouter forum was the great resource of helping unit leaders. That is why I'm still here. Barry

Well done CP. Simulating an aggressive condescending tone to represent to the forum exactly the attitude of those he claims to be offended by. Even better, CP cleverly models a hypocritical threatening nature of being unfriendly, patronizing, and aggressive at the weak when adults are supposed to be the scout’s best models for showing scout law like behavior in all situations. In fact, quite cleverly CP represents what some might suggest is the bullying style tendency of hiding behind a key-board while being aggressive. CP is just showing us an example of what Sentinel is saying that if leaders want to flex their adult muscle against the weaker less mature youth, there is little to stop them except being in control of their emotions. Certainly CP doesn’t really believe the scout law shouldn’t be in play at all times. Of course mature adults of character can converse their opinions without trying to belittle and intimidate a point of view. So we can certainly assume that CP wouldn't act in the way he suggest because the action could be misunderstood as aggression and create more harm than the youths act that offended him. For those of us who had been approached by lawyers representing parents who thought the unit leaders style of guiding their son was less than, oh let’s say less than scout like, we can relate to the humility of the consequences of emotions directing actions. Personally CP, I’m more impressed with adults who can express their opinion with impact without using dissenting dialoged. But we can assume you were doing it to show us how complicated this subject can be. Good job. By the way CP, I’m sure you would agree that we would both enjoy meeting in person and learning more about each face to face as equals. Expressing one’s opinion face to face, that is the real test of a man of character, wouldn’t you say. Barry

Umm, yes. Getting scouts to gang up with you is how to ease the lonelyness. I concede I am not expert in behavior psychology, but I learned through the years that giving these scouts responsibilties that gave them a positive image from the other scouts changed they way they acted out toward others. Worked in most cases, but not all. Barry

You are right, most of the time the bully is the loneliest guy in the room and doesn't know of any other way of easing that pain. We have had a few scouts that behaved badly just to get some attention from the adults. Barry