Eagledad

Yep, great post. I agree with most of it, not all. But, you didn't really address the question. Starting a National program from the bottom doesn't work. Been there done that several times. In fact, as a council JLT Chairman, I was part of a national group of other council training representatives communicating with National on their NYLT development. They didn't use one suggestion from our group. At this point in the chaos of all the other stuff going on in the BSA, overhauling the Cub program is likely a very low priority. But, that doesn't mean we can't talk about great ideas. Barry

My doctor told me that if I want to prevent replacing my knees with artificial knees, I had to give up running, backpacking and mountain biking. Road biking is how I get my exercise now.. Barry

This is the problem. Venturing Crews are generally started by adults with the passion for the activities. And more often than not, these are adults burned out with the troop program. But, once the sons and daughters of those passionate adults move on, so do the parents and they leave a void of adult leadership with the same passion. The average life of a Venturing Crew in our district is 3 to 5 years. Troops that create Venturing Crews for their older scout program do a little better, but even they struggle to keep the program active. Barry

So, how should we know? Barry

This describes the program our pack experimented with and it turned out very very successful as you expected. Sadly, the leaders who gained the knowledge from the experiment moved on and were replaced by leaders who didn’t grow from the experience. Not their fault, new leaders are expected to follow BSA published guidelines. I ran into the same problem with youth leadership development experiments. Without a supported published standard of guidelines or syllabus, different ideas fade with future generations. Big changes have to come from the top. So, how can we influence the top to make changes? Barry

How should we know? Is it in training? Is district sending leaders information? Do you have a source? Barry

I can’t say what is hurting scout membership today because there are to many new variables with adding girls, bankruptcy, and COVID. But, 10 years ago I could show the biggest membership killer in the BSA was the Cubscout program. Less than 30% of Tigers end up joining a troop. While I believe National has made some bad policy decisions on the troop program over the last 30 years, the program over all doesn’t have big membership drops after a scouts first year. While history does show some troop membership drops, the number is difficult to analysis because much of the drop is mostly reflective of Cub membership trends. If the Cub program were changed to where 50% of tigers made it to troops, it would be a huge increase for all the BSA programs. Barry

Quit right! I reread my post and saw my words differently. My apologies to all. I was looking at this as 2 friends at a campfire where the context would have been seen with a smile. But that’s where social media fails. Again, my apologies. have a great day. Barry

You’re doing it wrong. As qwazse is so eloquently saying, passion of scouting comes from doing scouting. Growth of being trustworthy, loyal, helpful comes from the experiences of scouting, not from quoting the Scout Law. If a scout is asking what does he get for that, he probably shouldn’t be doing that because he is not being rewarded with fun. Scouts will eventually learn to recite the Oath and Law after reciting them a hundreds times at a hundred scout activities. Your challenge is getting them to come to those hundred activities. Barry

Us to, but we found the 15 an older scouts are getting serious about Eagle and go more for the MBs. Not that they don't have fun, we plan a lot of troop activities within the summer camp program like our own campfire and shooting sports or something. And we usually do something fun on the way home like river rafting, Six Flags or something between camp and home. 90% of our 15 and older scouts keep going to summer camp. Barry

Yep, agree. I would say the majority of our Eagles don't get serious about it until at least 15. They are having too much fun. We have a lot of 17 year old ECOHs. Barry

😂

Things may have changed in the last 20 years with the technology, but inaccurate training records, as well as scout advancement records, was not unusual. Barry

Scouting is supposed to be a bucket list of activities. It was in our troop. The problem with that is the list is only as long as the adults allow. That has to be fixed. funny thing about the “Mission”, most people know what it is. Character building. The problem there is that they don’t understand how the process of scouting builds character. And that starts from the top. We knew National was lost when the added “Leadership” as a fourth Aim. Scouting is an outdoor program, but it is more than that. But how? Scouting needs to get back to making sense. Both in Cubs and Troops. Barry

It’s really about the motivation of the heart. If the act is selfless, it is pleasing to God. Barry

Don’t we already have this? Barry

I don’t believe scouting is risky. I believe scouting is meaningfully save. So, maybe the discussion should start there. Barry

Yep, don’t get me started. As I watch the challenges my adult kids are facing in today’s politically correct culture, I believe the Scout Oath will have to be heavily modified because it is the moral pillar of character building. I’ve seen it happen in other countries. Barry

Great post SSScout. We also learned about making the birthday party less official and more fun. We moved our cross overs and Webelos/AOL ceremonies to other meetings. That gave more room for fun and made those ceremonies more special for the scouts. Families today struggle to find opportunities for fun family nights out. Give your families that opportunity. Barry

Our troop wore the solid olive drab BDUs. The color was so close to the scout pants back then that one would have to look closely to see they weren’t the official scout pants. The BDUs were half the price of official scout pants, adjustable through 4 sizes for growing scouts and they were much more durable for rough scouting activities. Most surprisingly was the BDUs were popular at school. A scout wouldn’t be caught dead wearing official scout pants, but they wore the BDUs with pride. The PLC didn’t accept or push any official troop camo, but some of the patrols wore military camo boony hats. The boony hat came from our pack were the Webelos had a tradition of getting the hats when they became Webelos. The hats come in a dozen different color patterns, so each year Webelos den could be identified. They keep the sun and rain off the face and ears and are extremely durable. My 35 and 38 year old sons and I still have our hats. The BDU pants were a bit political. I was holding the PLC accountable for the official uniform in their handbook when they wanted to make jeans the official pant. The PLC came back and presented the OD BDUs. They asked me if I would accept the BDUs if council would allow them to use them. I said of course. I was impressed with their proposal, but I also didn’t think council would allow the BDUs. I was wrong. Barry

The main skill I worked on with my SPLs is delegating. Sometimes I actually stood next to the SPL to keep him from moving to do something. You just haven’t practiced it yet. I know what you’re thinking, the scouts don’t know how to do it. Ok, teach it instead of doing it. It will feel awkward at first, but as the scouts start having fun doing that stuff you were doing, you can stand back and smile. Barry

Loppers is probably my most used yard tool. Perfect for car camping. But, many of the saw injuries we tended to occur on back packing treks where minimal equipment weight is priority. Even hatchets are considered to Harvey, so the small backpacking saw is the tool of choice. Sadly, light backpacking saws are particularly difficult to use safely without much practice. Over the years we’ve come to depend on safety equipment to reduce accidents and have found one pair of heavy garden gloves are our equipment of choice for back woods treks. First off, they protect hands from the wildy saw. But they are also wonderful around the fire for moving hot pots, burning pieces of wood that shifted to close to the edge of the ring, and readjusting hot fire ring rocks. In fact, the more one uses them, the more uses they found for many applications. Barry

A surgeon once re-attached two parts of my hand because I used a saw unsafely. Because of that experience, not taking wood-shop class wasn’t an option for my sons. I was counting on the Oldscout448’s to teach my sons how to use shop power tools safely. I started my adult leaders wood-tools training class by explaining that the worst damaging flesh injuries in scouts came from saws. Not from not knives, not hatchets, and not the really scary axe. When a scout runs the teeth of a saw across his knuckles, it leaves a scar for life. You’re not only afraid of the wrong tools; your fear is dangerous because it makes you spend too little time teaching the proper safe use of all woods tools. Accidents will always happen, but they occur a lot less after proper training. Barry

After the troop matured a couple of years, we didn't see anymore of the SPLs who just wanted the cool experience because the scouts saw how demanding the job was. Only the most ambitious scouts ran for it. In fact, the troop paid for the SPL's summer camp fees because he worked so hard. The SPL is the first into camp to sign the troop in, and the last to leave to sign the troop out. He attends all the adult meetings and makes all the decisions that don't require an 18 or older person. I learned that the other SPLs in the camp recognize maturity because our SPLs were typically picked as the camp SPL. The SPLs are worn out by the end of camp. But, it is strangely an experience that is highly prized. One scout showed me his 18 month plan to be an SPL. And it was timed for the summer camp experience. Funny experience. The only time the troop ever left a scout behind at camp was the first summer camp of the new SM. He was just trying to be a good SM, but the SPL let him have it and taught the SM how to account for all scouts. If you were to ask me how the PLC accounted for all the scouts, I honestly couldn't tell you. They had a process tho. When scouts are given true responsibility, they take it very seriously. Barry

This is so good. Thanks. In general, scouts who are placed in leadership for credit generally don't learn or grow at all. In fact, they will more likely dispise leadership. And, a lot of scouts who don't show any desire for leadership in their younger years will all of a sudden thirst for it in their older years. We all mature at different rates. We just need to let them choose when they are ready. Oh, in our troop, past SPLs took on the Troop Guide role. I think it is because while they were ready for break from the very demanding SPL responsibilities, they still needed to lead and guide scouts. And, they are very good at it. Barry.