Eagledad

Have you tried, because we have been doing this for 20 years. You might not get the activity you asked for, but the camp usually tries to be accommodating. Barry

You don't need a camp program that specializes in a troop program, just schedule troop programs yourself. We do it every year. We usually schedule at least two troop activities during that week. We have done all the shooting sports, swimming, canoeing and so on. In fact, we have done every activity on your list over the years. We even did a troop polar bear swim in the cold waters in Colorado. We also do our own troop campfire in the middle of the week so the patrols can compete against each other with songs, skits and jokes. It's a great time for the scouts. The winning patrol performs their skit, song or jokes at the camp campfire. You (SPL) just needs to get with the camp director and make the requests. While this is unusual for camps to schedule an hour or two specifically for a troop, we have never had one turn us down. One camp like the idea so much that they added troop activities to their program the next year. We usually trade the camp with a service project for their kindness, but service projects are fun and part of scouting. We also push the scouts to schedule a lot of camp activities (other than advancement) on their own. We do our own advancement, so the scouts don't have the pressure to advance at summer camp or district colleges. It's all about fun for us. Troops don't realize how much independence they have at summer camp. You can use their facilities to do just about any troop program you can dream. Hey, adult training? Go for it. Other troops might even ask if they can participate. When it comes to picking camps, look for one with a lot of fun activities. Then build your troop and patrol program around your desires, not their agenda. One last thing, our troop traditionally does a fun activity after camp. Depending on what camp we attended, we have done, Amusement parks and rafting. It highlights the end of a long week. Barry

The "no running" rule (along with the "no open toed shoes") have been around since I was a scout in the 60's. Of course there is some common sense applied to the rule since some activities might involve running. But, our troop has taken more than one scout with a broken or severely cut toes resulting from rocks, roots, and tent stakes, to the emergency room. I personally like the rule. Barry

You are young and short on life experiences, so I don't expect this to go very far. But while I was a scouter frustrated by actions and inactions of parents and leaders I couldn't control, an old timer told me that I must learn the art of "not letting this stuff get to me and to move on". Getting all worked up doesn't change anything. Now I didn't take his advice then, but even my kids have told me lately that I have over time developed that ability to look forward without looking back at those things I can't change. My siblings come to mind. My life and relationships are much better as a result. The bible says don't dwell in the past; the righteous keep moving forward. I believe nobility has blinders to the nay sayers. Barry

Interesting. Before EDGE, our Troop guided our teachers (adults and scouts) to: 1. Introduce themselves and the skill they are teaching. 2. Give the students resources where they can review the skill. 3. Demonstrate the skill until the student can demonstrate the skill. I learned this list from the old Woodbadge Course. My Child Psychologist Scoutmaster friend taught me that most humans can remember only list of three items without having to study, so keep the lists short. I tried to never give a list of more than three even in adult classes. We taught that point number two was the most important to learn. I was anal that scouts know their resources. Now we have EDGE. I'm not sure what to think of EDGE when the old list of three worked pretty good. But at least it has a resource. LOL Barry

Likely the District Executive (DE) and District Commissioner (DC) have a good feel for programs in the Troops and Venturing Crews in your area. Call the council office and ask for the DE's phone number. The DE works with DC and they Are usually pretty good with guidance. Also, friends in school, church or sports might be glad to invite you to their unit. Barry

This is more toward my point. Whose to say this isn't a fad to gain some attention. As I said, loneliness makes people do extreme things. Once they go the surgical route, they are basically committing them to that lifestyle. Imagine some strange women walking up to tell you they made a choice because of your acceptance of their situation and now they regret that decision. The politics in our culture doesn't allow balance in the discussions of sexual orientation. You either agree or you are a racist. We even got a taste of that tone in this discussion. To allow them in the organization would be the same as forcing the adult leaders to say they are accepting of the scout's choice. Barry

LOL, yes, you and I have been here before. But you know, I have respect for those who want it all in this case because they want unconditional acceptance of what they believe God gave them. I respect that a lot. The problem is that behavior from the outside looking in is a choice, not a birthright. My son was just invited to a wedding of one of his best friends who now is strait after being gay for 20 years. Lot's of questions that probably even he can't answer. Barry

No I wasn't thinking about that. I really don't have problems with the parents if they aren't considering becoming registered leaders because they respect the program enough to put their boys in it. We had several gay parents of scouts in our area. They gave a lot of their time and support. Barry

Yes, but then you get in trouble with the activist who insist having a choice is the same as admitting the behavior isn't normal. There isn't a good choice for the BSA no matter what they choose to do, so I say "Do no Harm'. Barry

How can a person role model for someone they believe is possibly harming themselves? It would be role modeling the act of not caring. Barry

I am saying that the BSA should not take sides at all. I get the feeling you are taking my opinion as action for everyone. I'm am specifically talking about the BSA. Barry

If you are as self-righteous and judgemental of scout leader role models who don't agree with cultural inclusiveness as you are to just us in this discussion, just imagine your reaction to their natural behavior. What you suggest is forcing scouting adults to show acceptance even when they disagree. That is not role modeling, that is propagandizing. Barry

We as a culture should have a set of safe behavior guidelines to protect our youth when they are going through times of confusion. Giving acceptance to every thought of an inexperienced undeveloped immature juvenal mind should be a crime. Acceptance of allowing the child to evolve toward that emotion is the same as contributing to the choices they make in their future. I contend the BSA needs to save the volunteers and it's reputation from that contribution. I guess it comes under "Do no harm." Barry

Ah, the Technology. Your continued condescending speak only exposes no confidence to even attempt swaying minds with logic or reason in a civil tone. Not unlike when gay activist suggested technology was on their side as well. They couldn't prove it either. And how could they, the workings of the mind are so complicated that there isn't technological method yet that shows unquestionable proof of ones natural gender. Barry

From a Christian perspective, God gave us ethical and moral guidelines so we as a community would guide (guard) the youth toward a consistent behavior acceptable by God. Now, I'm not professing that you accept a Christian's guide to acceptable behavior, but I am saying that when the community or culture lack some kind of general guideline to keep fleeting youth fed emotions in check, those youth will tend to look for a sanctuary to encourage growth of those emotions. It's one thing to stand back and let the community steer a child into the dark unknown, it is quite another to contribute to that act by accepting their present state of mind as acceptable. Love is not giving into fickle delusions of emotional acceptance, but protecting the weak from self-serving deception. Barry

It didn't take long for a mature dialogue of thoughts to get dragged down into the mud of judgemental condescending diatribe. Barry

At my age, I've learned it's a waste of time attempting a dialogue of ideas against closed minded theories. As with others on this forum, I have had many wonderful scouting experiences as a youth and adult in the BSA. Enough experiences to know the difference between idealism that set boundaries to protect limited vision, from the humility of keeping an open mind for new ideas to expand scouting experiences. When adults move past the pride that tends to create barriers, there is no limit in giving scouts a program where they have the freedom to experience their dreams. Barry

I happen to work in an environment where I get to observe some of these behaviors (lifestyles?) from day to day. From those observations and my experiences with people of all ages over my lfietime, I have concluded that loneliness is a powerful force that can drive us toward dark places cloaked in hope. Barry

I agree. This same thought wasn't received well during our gay scout discussions. I will go even farther in suggesting that accepting a young boy struggling with their sexual identity risk encouraging him to continue toward a path that will further complicate his struggle. The BSA needs to stay out of it so as not to be a contributor of a life of strife made by wrong decisions. Barry

I remember reading somewhere that Badon Powell's vision for scouting was world peace. I can't remember where I read that, but it has always stuck in my mind as the perfect world vision for scouting. Barry

I don't understand this fear of scouts loosing respect from one challenging experience. We are scout leaders. We have the power to change and influence young minds. People screw up, especially adults. It's how we react to the screw ups that influences those around us. That being said, I believe humilty is the most powerful reaction one could observe from others. In fact, I also believe observations of humility are becoming rarer in today's culture. If the youth don't see humility in their role models, they are less likely to express it in their own lives. Barry

Same standard, different approaches. Sometimes adults have a bad day or just act out of ignorance. Sometimes they let their egos too far. We approach them by pointing out what is expected compared to what just happened. As a Scoutmaster, I would say my time was spent 50/50 working with adults to scouts. My goal for scouts is building character. My goal for adults is setting a good example of the law and oath in front of the scouts. I'm not trying to build character in the adults, just set guidelines of their behavior. Sometimes the adults are incapable of living up to my expectations in front of the scouts, so those adults were generally moved away from the scouts. I wouldn't say I have high standards, some adults just have low habits of behavior. In a situation like this, my first priority is working with the scout to see and understand his behavior toward the other people. Then I would have the discussion with the adults to discuss their expectations of procedures. Barry

Credit to him for overcoming it? Hmm, he sets up a BOR to tell them they were wrong and then walks out! That's not overcoming, that's a tantrum. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but knowing qwazse's scout leading skills, I feel he gets credit for direction the scout is taking. The scout obviously has a good head on his shoulders, but even the best of us need guidance when our emotions try to take control. Barry

I agree with you qwazse, even most adult leaders don't know of that documentation. My response was a reaction to the scout even having the knowledge of the boards responsibilities. Anyway, I have no trouble with the scout being proactive for meeting with the board without first discussing it with the SM, I respect being proactive with personal dealings and practices. My struggle is the scout's attitude to why he approached the board, which led to how he approached the board. Of course there is a level of respect that should be given for at least informing the SM of the boards' improper actions. Barry