Eagle92

Base, The way I see it, KUDU is relaying, restating, whatever you want to call it, a stereotype that our CSE has stated, which isn't true. The CSE did in fact say Hispanics don't want to camp. We all know that the Soccer and Scouting was a flop form all the anecdotal discussions, and the fact that national isn't really pushing it's program like they did with teh Garfield and Cub Scouts in the late 90s early 2000's where one council experimented, and then national promoted it heavily. In my expereince, Hispanic youth are like the everyone else, THEY WANT THE OUTING IN SCOUTING (bold for emphasis, and a little cub scout-like, good natured shouting

Don't know how true that is, but some alternatives include leather belts and some of the specialty web nylon belts. I know there are Philmont, Fl Sea Base, and NCS versions of those. I know I have my High Adventure one with the three national HA bases' logos on it from all hands in '98.

DR, Yep that answers my question. I know the switch from exact sizes to S-M-L-XL was a while back, if memory serves around 2000 or '01. And yes Charlotte does have a habit of losing things, and finding them years later. Still calling Sea Scout stuff Sea Explorer. I'm glad national changed their minds about the red jackets. Like I said, I talked to my gold loop friends when the green ones came out. As for the numbers, the sequence tell you product type and size. When I worked for national, the only time numbers changed is when you got a new style of something.

One thing my pack did this year was to make slides, or woggles, using Turk's Head Knots out of parahute cord. For the price of about 5 slides, maybe fewer, I got 200' of #550 cord and was able to make enough for all the Cubs, Leaders,, and still have it left over for fall round up.

DR, Is you store a national one or a local council one? I ask b/c when I talked to some friends at a national store when the green one first came out, they said the red ones were being phased out.

Unfortunately I do see a reason why some MBs are required, even the blasted paper pushing ones. Schools are not doing their jobs of educating our kids in civics, hence the need for the Citizenships. Sorry I cannot cite the exact stats, but if you google it, I'm sure you'll find the recent study on how poorly our students are doing in history and civics. In reference to Hispanics and camping, the one that was in my den left because we don't go camping enough. And we had 3 campouts in a 6 or 7 week period.

To add to the post above, as stated in another thread, requiring blue cards for an EBOR is adding to requirements, and is appealable. As I stated before I know units that do not use blue cards. And as several have pointed out, You can start work on a MB before seeing the MBC, you just have to keep track. Lots of summer camp programs tell you what to do in advance, and some things like Camping MB can be started as soon as you join a troop.

(No mention in G2SS about swords, spears, halberds, or maces.) Let's not give any of the Cubs coming to my day camp ideas on what to bring for their Knights of the Round Table theme.

Met every friday, every week except Christmas Break, Easter Break, and Week of Summer Camp. Also didn't have meetings on the occasional 3 day weekend,turing it into a 2 day campout instead. As far as camping goes, usually we went camping every month except the month of summer camp, and December, so 10 weekend campouts and Summer Camp. However we did have an optional week of winter camp, Dec 26- Dec 31st, that some folks took advantage of. Now every once in a while a trip had to be cancelled. Not very often but once or twice in my scouting career as a youth. Then we had a hike in it's place. As Green Bar Bill once said, and is misquoted in the current BSHB,: "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING!"

Me reminiscing a bit since everything seems to be bringing back memories latley. I did not go to summer camp right after getting out of Cubs b/c we were informed of it in April, and couldn't get the money raised in time for June. So I was a Second Class who only needed First Aid MB and a BOR for First Class. SM wanted me to take the class with this particular counselor. Really good one, and I remember the ARC certification classes were a breeze compared to the stuff he made us do. We were in the field, had to use own on resources, including our personal first aid kits we either made (if you read the book ahead of time) or bought it int he trading post. That first summer I got 4 MBs: First Aid, Emergency Preparedness, Camping, and Cooking. I actually did the log and other stuff needed to show I did the numebr of night out camping, and coming from a "hiking and camping troop" it was easy. I also took an instructional swim class. I had a period to goof off in and had a blast.Nights that week were spent doing 3 campfires ( opening, OA/ Indian Lore MB, and closing), 2 campwide games (STAFF Manhunt with watermellon bounties awarded and a scavenger hunt) and one troop night. The next year was similar: 4 MBs, Swimming, Canoeing, Wilderness Survival, and Indian Lore. Still had a free period to swim, canoe, and goof off. Nights were the same thing as before, except I missed one of the campwide games to sleep in my survival shelter. Also I had to perform in one campfire. Would do it again in a heart beat. The last summer was a little more intense. I did a HA program where we left Monday morning,and didn't come back until Thursday lunch. And Thursday was spent preppiing for a canoe trip Friday. While the purpose of the program was working on backpacking trail around camp, several MBs were worked on. While we didn't have a lot of free time, it was a blast, being out with just the counselors who were college student,and a bunch of scouts away from it all. I still remember one of the counselor's kept callign the canoe his 'pirouge" and showing off by paddling backwards the entire canoe trip, except when launching and landing. I just don't get folks wokring on a bunch of MBs all day and night, as I have seen some camps offer nite classes. I do not understand not having a free period to go swimming, shooting,or whatever. I don't know why folks don't want ot play games at nite. But I am an old fogey

One of the big differences between the Scout Association and BSA. I know that in the early years of the BSA, there were several scout organizations and if memory serves there was some violence between them. But BSA is very protective. heck they went after the Girl Scouts of the USA at one time. But I agree I like how SA works with the other groups, as well as the Girl Guides. Wouldn't happen over here.

Interesting. While I admit an adult had to help, and probably alot, to get it started, once the troop has a few years under it's belt, it is probably youth focused. Now I admit I did have some minor, technical issues with them, i.e. some of the walking staves seem a little to big for the scouts, I'd put a garbage bag over a sleeping bag in one pic, etc. But overall not too shabby. EDITED; Forgot to add, are the scouts happy with the program? Are they slowly taking over, if they haven't already ( the website said they are new that's why I ask)? If the Answer is Yes, I have no problem.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

HEHEHHEHE That's going to be me in two weeks, unless the NC fires keep going. One of our day camps had to shut down today, and possibly the rest of the week, due to the smoke. HAVE FUN AND DRINK YOUR WATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have mixed emotions on this. If the sole purpose is to earn MBs, then there is a problem b/c scouting is suppose to be FUN and ADVENTUROUS. Not a classroom. Now I have no problem with scouts going to camp to earn MBs and HAVE FUN! I've always viewed summer camp as a good opportunity for advancement b/c you live scouting 24/7 for a week. You are living with your patrol, doing your share of the work to keep the campsite up to par and doing your turn as a waiter (sorry all the camps I've done had dining halls). If you do some type of HA program, then you are formed up into a patrol and really live the Patrol method while away form the base camp, and possibly your troop ( my camp did that and I was the only scout my year to do it). You are doing campwide games with your patrol and troop ( best way to get some of the troop level prizes is to have the troop's patrols working together to get the watermelons ) and doing troop level activities a few nites. Now I admit my old council did something similar, but it went by the name Winter Camp. Yes it was mostly paperwork MBs, and mostly Eagle, but a few other ones were offered as well. Since most of us in SE Louisiana are not use to, or prepared for equipment wise, extreme cold weather,classes were sometimes inside. But they tried to keep it outside as much as possible. Also it was a six day class, arrive on Dec 26th and start working until Dec. 31st.

Moose, Trust me I know what a PITA this is for the district. We had a guy who made it a WB ticket item to make a list for the district, and it got to be such a problem that it somehow turned out to be a list of MBCs just for his troop as the ticket item. Another friend took 2.5 years getting the stuff done, only to have teh new YPT rules go into effect an that became a game changer for some MBCs.

JT, That's one of the responsibilities of the district advancement chair to keep the list and make sure all the SMs know who is on it as MBC is a DISTRICT Position of responsibility. And there are other ways of keeping track of what folks have completed. MACSCOUTER.COM gives out great worksheets. I've aslo seen MBS initial MBPs and the old requirements books.

D, In some troops, scouts do indeed do some of the items you mentioned. And sometimes the committee member who does not listen to the scouts make serious mistakes. When my troop lost most their tents and needed to buy new ones, the QM did all the work and stated exactly what we needed to get. Committee member who was helping to get the gear saw a sale on tents, and decided to ignore the research the QM did, and get the tents on sale. These were the "pop up" tents where everything is attached to the frame already and all you do is take it out the bag and it's set up and ready to sleep in. Problem with them is that if one pole, or joint breaks, the entire tent is ruined as you cannot fix the problem without tearing up the tent. How do we know this, 2 of the tents broke on the first camp out, and a 3rd broke on the 2nd camp out it was on. Fourth one was retired. Luckily we new some pioneering, and rigged up the tents. Another problem is that some adults think youth cannot do things on their own. While I was in my Sea Scout Ship, I was a petty officer, sorry can't remember if it was yeoman or purser, and one time I needed to submit an advancement report to pick up stuff for the ship. Now the paperwork had all the necessary signatures, I had a check from the Ship, etc, but guess who wouldn't let me pick up the paperwork b/c I was a youth. Didn't matter that everything was in order, didn't matter that I was also a trained ASM, b/c I was a youth I couldn't do squat. In fact I ran into some adults who feel that a 18-21 yo Scouter doesn't know squat. And as you can guess that's a pet peeve. You train them, give them responsibility, and you will be surprised at what they can accomplish.

I've seen some knocked out in one day, then the Scout sits around in the campsite the rest of the week. We had a chat with the Camp Director over that. And what is wrong if a scout is prepared, can show he's done the work, and can get a MB without having to attend class everyday. It's SUMMER CAMP, not School. This is a chance for the scouts to make their own decisions, grow up some, and do what they want. Now if the MBC just gave them the MB, that is a different story and agree the CD needs to know about the subpar program.

I don't know about council stores, but in the national store I worked at, space was at premium and we were all over the place: on the floors, climbing ladders, etc in orde to store and get to merchandise in storage. While most work was done inside, sometimes we did go outside and unload palates of the big rig delivering merchandise, and that was done in the cold rain sometimes. As for summer camp, that was a pilot program that national did, sending out employees. Don't think it was a big hit.

BN, While I am not as knowledgeable as KUDU is on the early history of the BSA, the YMCA did have a major impact on the BSA initially. If memory serves most of the committee members were involved with the YMCA, and YMCA officials modifed BP's program so that even he commented that it was different than what he envisioned. It wasn't until the 1920s, that a certain Dane was able to fix some of the differences and get BSA more in line with the original Scouting program. But even Green Bar Bill was 100% successful. Which proves yet again, the BSA will be in big trouble if we forget our roots, as GBB has "Gone Home."

JZ, Once upon a time, there was only 1 type of Summertime Pin, so if you earned it multiple times, you got the same pin over and over. The separate level pins didn't exist until BSA decided to make level specific hats and neckerchief slides. As for Webelos earning the pin twice, they already have to earn certain belp loops a second time if they have already earned them, so what't the big deal?

JT, Please do not discount the "shelf stackers." I worked for national supply once upon a time and the national supply sales clerks are a valuable resource in a variety of things. Most have some sort of Scouting background, whether as a youth, leader, or both, so they can help get people what they need. I have worked with and met supply clerks who were Eagle Scouts, earned the Venturing Silver, WB beads, etc. In regards to the uniform, I'd really listen to them. They are required to wear the uniform every day, and their uniforms get alot more wear and tear than most scouts' uniforms. Wearing the uniform 40 hours a week during the school year, and about 96 hours a week at summer camp, you can tell alot about the uniform. As for how the material will stand up, unfortuanltey only time will tell. But more than likely it will be either A) a summer camp staffer, or B) a Supply Shop sales clerk who finds out. I know I went through 3 pairs of scout pants in a year due ot the poor quality of the pants at the time.

I believe both websites you cite are volunteer run, and sometime inaccurate information can be presented. Here's the website I am using. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/Leaders/Awards/UnitAwards.aspx Boys who participate in all three pack events are eligible to receive the National Summertime Pack Award pin, which they can wear on the right pocket flap of their uniform. Now the site does leave something to be desired. The national website just shows that the pins match the neckerchief and slide the Cub Scout is wearing. SO if someone just joined Cub Scouts as a Tiger june first, why wouldn't he be eligible for the Wolf pin until AFTER he got his Tiger badge? Ditto the other ranks, Why would a Wolf be given a Tiger pin in Sept, when he became a Wolf June 1, Bear a Wolf pin, or a Webelos a Bear Pin? So using the rationale above, you did issue the correct pin. I'll give you an example. My oldest joined June 1, attended a council family campout, pack activities, and CSDC as a Tiger. He met the requirements for the award before earning his Tiger badge. SO why must he wait until the next year to recive something he already earned? Another reason why I wish it was ocne again 1 pin for all levels.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

As they sang in GREASE, "Tell me more, tell me more...."

While I know the original poster is a Cub Scout leader, so he may not have even thought of this, but most of the responses are those who work with Boy Scouts and Venturers, so my question is this: Why are we focusing on adults? Why are we not thinking our Boy Scouts and Venturers are not capable of using the first aid skills they have learned?