Eagle92

My troop had a separate staff with most, not all but most, of the ribbons on it. If memory serves, only the current year's stuff went on the troop flag. One of the dad's who was a carpenter made a wooden disk to put on hte flag pole to attach the ribbons to. looked great at COHs.

Popcorn sales, unit fundraisers, saving allowances and birthday/Christmas money.

Another story. I was assigned to be the provisional SM since 4 of the provi scouts were from my troop. We did the entire troop thing, with the scouts forming up patrols and slecting leaders, tentmates, etc. But I admit I did select the SPL: one of my scouts who was a CIT at camp for most of the summer. We had a good time, showed scout spirit at assemblies etc. For the 'troop nite" we had the guys come up with campfire program. SPL assigned two of my scouts to build the troop campfire in the campsite. Now my troop had a reputation of being pyromaniacs, no one could build and start fires faster than my guys. So knowing this I said, "Do not light the fire until I see it." and that was my mistake. When my two guys finished building their 4 foot high log cabin fire, I was summoned to see them. As soon as I saw the firelay and before I could say it was too high, they lit it up with smiles on their faces, saying "We lit it after you saw it." Camp director ended up visiting, saw the campfire, and asked if the two guys could build the closing campfire. Needless to say the cloasing campfire was burning brightly when the program ended.

I've had some experience on this matter, so the questions I ask are based on this expereince. 1) How did the rumor get started? Did the scout say something publically, or post something publically? has some else published something? Did he do something that may be construed as being gay? I ask because I know a young man who was accused of being gay by his peers due to someone running into the shower area, taking pictures while running through, and then posting the pictures everywhere. I know a second young man accused of being bisexual because he wore an earring. And I also know of one person who came out of the closet by posting it on facebook. 2) Did another scout accuse the first one of inappropriate behavior? Unfortunately I've seen this happen, one scout accused of propositioning another scout. Second scout a little reluctant to mention it b/c he didn't know if the first scout was joking or not. But there were some rumors about the first scout. The proposition, while possibly being a joke, definately made the first scout uncomfortable and was reported. How did things work out. In the situation with the photos, while rumors persisted, they did go away. Nothing happened to the victim, and unfortunately nothing happened to the person who ran into the shower area b/c they were never identified. Nothing happened to earring scout. Got his Eagle, got a good job, married and has a daughter (so that answers that question since we know what daughters are: God's punishment for being a teenage male ) In the situation with the person who came out on facebook, he his membership was revoked. But he was an adult with a troop and a youth with a crew. In the last situation it got interesting. While rumors abounded about the first scout being gay, there was no proof. He did not leave summer camp staff until the second scout also on staff mentioned the proposition to an adult staffer he knew and trusted. Again the second scout couldn't tell if it was a joke or not, but it made him uncomfortable and he told me about it. I reported it to the CD, and the first scout was quietly dismissed from staff since it was a matter of "He said, he said." I do not know anything else that happened or was done, except the first scout was not allowed to be on staff the following year. When it was brought to the attention of the Director of Support Services that the first Scout was about to be rehired for summer camp, the DSS told the CD not to hire him. As to what should have been done with your son's friend. I think the following. Unless there was an accussation, or some type of public comment, nothing should have occured. If something did happen, i.e. public statement or accusation, it should have been handled very, very privately by the SE, not the unit leaders.

I am going to make a few comments. Unfortunately there are those professionals who act just as Abel describes. They make life miserable for those pros who do care about the program, and usually force out those who care. Trust me on this. When two middle managers and 9 DEs/excutive trainees leave in a 20 month period, who can figure out what type of management you are dealing with. National states everyone has to be registered, and that includes employees. Even the part time clerks for Supply are registered with national. Again some summer camp staff are not normally registered scouters, i.e. contracters and TDY military come to mind. But I have also run into college students who do not want to make the commitment to a unit, knowing that they will be a "paper leader," and that their primary role is actually summer camp staff. Hence the creation of summer camp staff crews. I do not know if forming a Crew is mentioned at NCS or not, but every summer camp I've been to or worked on has had a Post/Crew (depending upon the year) for their staff. Some crews do activities year round, mostly helping to staff events and camp maintreience, but also some fun stuff, i.e. Christmas parties, trips, etc. Crews I've been with have customs and traditions, just like other units, and I would not consider the summer camp units fake. Also in the UK the staff, aka Service Team or Sevice Crew, act as a unit doing things year round. So it's not just a US thing. As for Crews who are not HA and outdoor oriented, so what? Venturing allows units to focus on specific areas. It is very possible to earn SILVER, and never go camping, although RANGER is a different story So I have no problems with a church youth group being a crew, or a RC club being registerd as a crew. In fact when Venturing came out, church youth groups had specific recruiting info printed out. As far as pay goes, it is not the greatest. I calculated that I was making about $1.56/hour as a COPE director back in the day. Most I made at camp was about $3.51/hour, and that was as a DE. You don't work camp for the money. One of my regrets in life was that I was unable to work summer camp as a youth since I had to support myself, and making $50-$100/week, about $.37 - $.69/hour depending upon years on staff and position would not be able to help me out. Again you don't work camp for the money.

'Fish, My problem is that middle son will be a Tiger effective 1 June 2012. Hence the wait to 2013. But officially, everyone move ups 1 June each year, regardless of if school is still in session or not.

yep, take the old uniform to the shop, and be prepared to fill out an advancment report, using "REPLACEMENTS" (sic)for the dates as well as across the form.

Unfortunatley that is against BSA guidelines. Personally, I would not have a problem, again as long as a parent was with them. I know my middle child is ticked off that he cannot do resident camp next year b/c he will be a Tiger then, and I am thinking of taking oldest to res camp.

'Dad, I PM'ed ya. I

Actually SCOUTNET is supposed to solve the multiple membership ID number. The theory when SCOUTNET was explained to me was that as you move from councilto council, the ID number and your records move with you. I know my training records did NOT follow me around, and don't seem to recall if the ID number was the same or not when I moved around councils. But I do know that I am registered in 3 positions with my current council: CSDL, District Committee, and MBC, and all three cards have the same ID number.

What school does this guy teach at? When I was in grad school, I was taught that you need to have ALL of your acts straight before writing or speaking them. The reason being that if someone can spot one error in your writing or speech, what other is the writer or speaker making? I tore apart one respected revisionist historian in one of my papers simply because I spotted a few minor errors in book I was critiquing. Again the theme being, if these simple commonly known errors are in this work, what else is he making up?

Only restriction I know about with Tigers and camping is that they cannot do Resident Camp. Only Wolves and above can do resident camp. So let your Tigers camp out Fri - Sun.

2Cub, You'd be surprised at the number of folks who come out to work camps who are not active with units. Some are college students,and while they could be registered with the College Scouter Reserve, few people knowing about it. Some of these folks don't have the time during the school year, but take off during the summer and give back. Then you got your contract folks. SCUBA shops, wilderness outfitters, etc who are hired by the council to run a specialty program. And let's not forget our military on TDY. They may or may not be active with a unit on base, I know of one guy who wasn't registered as he was deployed and then got TDY. Again BSA policy is camp staff must be registered, and a crew composed of staff members solves that. I knnow of places where the crew does indeed meet year round. It may be quarterly but hey do meet. Also they help staff events throughout the year. I know alot of crews that don't do that, but hter are some that do. I know many will feel that this is a ghost unit, but trust me I know what ghost units are, having to try and clean up some of them. Summer camp crews are a heck of lot more active than GUs.

Thing is, people WILL go on fishing trips about you. Employers will search for information about you. Potential significant others may search for information on you prior to agreeing to go out with you. Clubs you may be interested in may search for information on you, and I can go on and on. This is a very big deal.

The Enlarging Machine skit reminded me of an incident I had. One summer camp the camp's medic, who also happened to be the daughter of the CD, was reviewing my healthform. It was a Class 3, used by those over 40 or if you were going to do a HA activity. I was 20 and going to do one later in the summer, so that's why I had the Class 3 physical. Now the medic never looked up at me, just reviewed the paperwork, and then started going through the rest of the paperwork. I asked her if there was any problems, and she said that she was looking for my son's paperwork, to which I replied, "I don't think I have a son old enough to be a Scout." That's when she looked up, saw that I was around the same age as her, and turned red and apologized. Well the scouts in my troop saw that and laughed. However the opportunity for a good joke was there. So on Wednesday I had one of my scouts agree to be "my son," and after supper we go to the serving area where the medic was and I introduced her to my 6'1" tall "son," and got a great laugh out of everyone on the staff back there. Well every son needs a "mommy," so on Friday, I goback to the serving area after dinner, tell the medic my "son" one word, and only one word to tell her. "Son" gets a big grin on his face, looks side to side, and screams in a childlike voice, "MOMMY!" Needless to say she turns bright red, and everyone, including her CD dad was laughing their butts off.

As someone mentioned, summer camp staffs are registered as crews so that those who are not registered normally, i.e. college students working, "contractors" like SCUBA shops, military assigned TDY at camp, etc are registered. As to keeping the crew active year round depends upon your staff. I know crews that do meet year round, not only staffing weekend council events, but do a few things on their own. But I know most staffs do not meet year round.

Poles?!?!?! Tarps ?!?!?!! WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING POLES AND TARPS! Seriously though Horizon's troop has a great game plan: USING THE SKILLS ON A REGULAR BASIS ( caps for emphasis this time )

Oh brother have I had this conversation, especially since I am a dancer. The topic depends on a bunch of factors: local NA population, how the local lodge interacts and behaves,what is actually being done, etc. I lucked out in that my original lodge Chilantakoba Lodge 397 had a good relationship with the largest local nation: The Houma. But it helps when Arrowman developed a realtionship with them, to the point that they helped restore traditional skills that had been "lost," helped prepare documents and research for their petition for Federal recognition, helped promote their cause for federal recognition via handing out info at every possible event, i.e. conclaves and NOACs, etc. But a few idiots can undue that good will. 397 had a dance team that wanted to do things "their way" until the lodge disbanded them at the request of the Houma if memory serves. However a few years after being disbanded, they did help restart the dancers. Now the following is my opinion based upon research, discussions, and reading. The situation above, i.e. OA members doing their own thing, is why many in the NA community do not like the OA. NA cultures are varied, although they are becoming more and more alike since the 1960s and "Pan Indianism" and the "powwow circuit." The cultures are alive and well, and continue to grow and change. However many in the OA still think either "Wild Wild West", or if they are adult dancers who haven't continued dancing in some time, the 1960s and 70s when some dance styles were more prevelent. Perfectly good example between 1993 and 2007, the years I danced a lot, I had only seen 1 Old Style dancer who wasn't an Arrowman. And he only danced in his Old Style regalia b/c A) I was talking to him about it and B) he hadn't worn it in so long that he decided if it still fit, he'd wear that day. Anyway I digressed from the original topic. How to justify. Gotta remember history, when the OA was founded in 1915 all Native Americans were not citizens yet, that happened in 1924, they could not vote in every state(1948 solved that) and that certain aspect of NA culture were prohibited by law. Native Americans either went underground, or became fully aculturated. For example, the Navajo celebrated parts of their culture underground to avoid detection, while the Houma fully the Cajun culture of their swamp neighbors (true story, Houma lost a good bit of their language which is suspected to be similar to Choctaw, and instead speak French. One of the books in my collection that was written by one of their tribal council members is written in both French and English). So the OA's early adoption of NA culture was not a problem. In fact many in the NA community saw it as a way of continuing their culture during a time of oppression. That's one reason why Swanton was successful in his research IMHO, and many of the early NA craft books were either written by Native Americans with the OA as their intended audience, or by Arrowman who had developed deep relationships with various NA communities. OK gotta get back to work, and I can literally spend all day ont his topic. Rememebr this: RESPECT AND RESEARCH. When approaching folks have RESPECT when goign to them, doing regalia and Dancedo the REsearch to do it right. More later

Scoutfish said: Can I attach a rider on your petition to also ban any and all insignia and awards that are attached to uniforms and hats by way of pins? This reminded me of a converstaion on Facebook I had with a mother about the Merit Badge Sash Pin. I said it was a stupid item b/c a safety pin can solve the problem very easily and cheaply. Mom said safety pins can be dangerous as they stick the scouts when pinning them on. I reminded her that it shouldn't be a problem since most scouts have Totin Chip and can use a knife, ax, and saw safely, so a safety pin should not be a problem.

There is the MS case where a doctor was sued by an unhappy patient of his late father. Despite informing the plantiff's lawyer that it was his dead father who treated the patient, and not himself, for an medical procedure that occured several years before (I think it was 5 or 6 years before), the defending doctor needed a lawyer and went to court before it was dismissed. The defending doctor had to pay out of pocket if memory serves for a lawyer because it was not a case of malpractice and his insurance would not cover him. And if memory serves, the defendent then had to sue the plaintiff for costs, hence another lawsuit and more lawyer fees.

I've seen one or two crews formed that had members MOSTLY, form the OA. And like SR said, it was AIA folks, mostly dancers and singers, who wanted to do more than the lodge. The crews were coed with those ladies also interested in NA culture. As SR said, forming the crew with the AIA folks had the benefits b/c they could fundraise and kleep the money, go to powwows and other events as a crew instead of OA, and allow those ladies interested to participate. Some negatives I can think of are the following: 1) Crew regalia vs. Chapter/Lodge regalia 2) Conflicts with Crew and Chapter/Lodge schedules 3) the Ladies and OA activities

Not only is Cub Scouting more labor intensive for the adults, we are running the program not the Scouts, but it is a natural progression to move up with one's sons to the next level, and stay there.

National has not carried them in ages, and if a "scout shop" is sellig them, more than likely it's a council distributorship that found them in a storage area and is trying to get rid of them. I know that some places will custom make them, but you got to buy a bunch. If Ship's Store si any indication, you'll need to buy 100 of them.

bnelon44, I don't have my BSHB in front of me, so I'll need to look it up when I am home. But please tell me that something that should be a basic scout skill, one that CAN save lives (I am living proof of that life saving benefit of an open fire), is still in the BSHB. Because if it isn't, I am going to be madder with that being over looked, than the handbook misquoting Green Bar Bill. Being able to build a fire IS A LIFE SAVING SKILL! and yes I am shouting this time around. E92

Stupid question, but here it goes: Why don't we let the SCOUTS (caps for emphasis)do the teaching and signing off of skills? From both my expereince and observations, they are usually tougher than adults are on making sure Scouts meet requirements. As far as Eagles and not being able to start a campfire, I understand that one from expereince. I was helping out at a camporee, and one of the events was to tie a piece of spaghetti into a square knot. So of course you needed to start a fire, boil water to cook the noodle, and tie the knot. From my observations and talking to the judges, only 1 patrol did it without any help whatsoever. Yep only one with out any help. The the judges were so frustrated that no one else was able to do it. They did help out one NSP by demonstrating how to make fuzzsticks, chipping wood, and told them how to layer the firewood. Very sad, especially since my Cubs at CSDC were upset they couldn't build fires for cooking due to a fireban. At least the Webelos were able to do some cookign on a gas pig cooker.(This message has been edited by eagle92)