Eagle92

Mixed emotions on this one. I'm going to say it depends upon the scout. As Calico pointed out, there are no hard and fast rules, nor do I want them. I've seen some 11 and 12 YO scouts who were gung ho Tenderfoots and 2nd Class Scouts do great jobs. But sad to say, they are few and far between. I think DCs need the KSAs to do the job. They also need to be able to command respect, which leads to Short's objection. If he want's to be a DC to hang out with his buddies, that is 110% wrong reason to be a DC. The have to have the desire to assume responsibility and be leaders and mentors, not pals. The DCs I've seen, even the young ones, worked with youth younger than them, and literally the Cubs worshipped the ground they walked on. Saddest day with my Den was when I announced that my 13yo DC, who I has as a DC since he was 12, was leaving my den for the Webelos Den since they needed someone with his outdoor experience. Lots of upset Cubs. Being a DC IS a responibility, and should not be treated lightly. I would not have him work with his buddies, rather I'd have him work with the Wolves, and that IF, stressing IF he is ready for it. And only the SPL, SM, CM, and DL can really make that decision. Not parents, not the scout, and not his buddies.

ISRAP, Back in the day, all advancment and awards: rank, skill awards,MBs, Fifty Milers, etc, were given out at the quarterly COH. We had no problems because we knew who was what. And we never encountered any problems outside the unit either. But that changed with the emphasis on immediate recognition and FCFY. UC, Thanks for the info. Also when I worked for supply back in the day, the rank pins, no not the parent's pin but the larger old school rank pins, were also restricted items that needed paperwork since they are advancment. This caused some "challenges" in paperwork when national decided that the First Class Rank Pin became the official hat insignia for all youth who wore the campaign, and then new expedition hats, irregardless of rank. So for a time, anyone who needed a pin for their hat had to fill out an advancement report for it. KBandit, Work around is to buy a few "replacements." Basically you fill out an advancement report, put actual Scouts info on it (i.e. name, rank, date of BOR) and then write "REPLACEMENT" on it. My troop growing up did this because A)sometimes the council office didn't have what we needed, B) we had one or two folks with multiple uniforms, and C) the troop makes a custom table top decoration for every Eagle for use at COHs. One side had the troop patch,the other the Eagle badge, name, and year. We didn't do the immediate awarding of rank though as that practice was just starting when I was a youth. My pack did the "repalcements" work around, and we have a "war chest" of extra awards and ranks as sometimes the local office is out of stuff, usually late January-mid March. Personal pet peeve of mine is not having rank to give out at a pack meeting, so I have made certain we have extras on hand. We don't go into it unless needed, and use what is backordered to replace inventory.

as others have stated, as soon as the BOR is passed, tenure for S-L-E begins. Also while you need to wait for national to approve Eagle, they use the date of your BOR on your credentials. Question: Does Quartermaster and Silver Recipients also have to send the paperwork to national for approval?

BD, I agree with you on the NYLT comment, it should be fixed there. Again I saw some things with the old JLT course in my current council. I was a JLT staffer prior to being a DE, and when I saw some of the shenanigans going on, I discussed it with the DD who was the staff adviser. I was told in no uncertain terms that I don't know what I'm talking in regards to JLT, what they are doing has always been allowed, and that they are not changing anything. But I must respectfully disagree with you on a youth being on the district committee. If you look at the OA literature, a 12YO Arrowman who has been elected chapter chief could be on the district committee. Ditto on the council committee if elected Lodge chief. Also a 13.5yo Venturer elected as District President or council president will serve on their respective level committee. the 2011 Venturing SOP can be found here http://www.scouting.org/filestore/venturing/pdf/venturingstandardoperatingprocedures.pdf As for patches, I think it is a shame that OA Chapter and Lodge Chiefs do not have their own POR patches, yet the Venturing District and Council Presidents, do. I do not know how it is in other areas, but there are more Arrowman then Venturers in my district and council, and the respective chiefs represent more youth than their Venturing counterparts. heck we don't even have a district venturing president b/c we only have 2 crews active. But since the Arrowman do not have their own patch, and they are on the respective committee during their term of office, why shouldn't they,in their term of office, wear the silver loops and respective committee patch? Now I know the argument is that the duty of the Arrowman is to serve their units, and thus they do not need a separate patch, but this no longer holds credibility due to the Venturing district and Council president patches.

If he wants it in writing, here's links to official BSA publications: http://www.scoutstuff.org/media/content/docs/pdfs/34283.pdf While a bit outdated, it refers to red loops for Boy Scouts: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/06A.aspx In regards to the district job that he has, never heard of it before BTW, http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/10.aspx

To bad one of the few things that national got right with urban scouting, they decided to do away with.

Platy, Prior to 1989, Scouts sat on T-2-1 BORs. I know of a few troops who continued the practice for some time after it changed.

Idea, You'd be surprised at what some council "traditions" are in regards to NYLT and council staff.

Driving times reminded me of one of my fellow Sea Scouts and her parents who were on hte committee. They drove 2-3 hours one way to our meetings, which were twice a month. My ship met every other weekend on saturday, and we sailed for 3-4 hours, old age can't get me the exact length of the meetings, which we sailed, worked on plans, or crushed cans ( our fundraiser). Sometimes the crushed cans took over the entire meeting, especially after the yacht club that was our CO had a party. EDITED: For those meetings that most of the time was spent crushing cans, we did a McDonald's run with some of the money to celebrate finishing, and the bulk of the money was for activities. So there were no complaints from us "Yutes."(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Eng, Not everyone is into sports. I got CUB SCOUTS (caps for emphasis not shouting)chomping at the bit to go camping in 3 weeks. Last week's den meeting was foil cooking and cardboard box oven baked cookies. Kids loved it. And when I told them that next year as Webelos they can do their own campouts without the pack, they said they couldn't wait. (OK, actual quote was "AWESOME!!!!!!!" and yes the caps are for them shouting that at me.) If BSA would follow Green Bar Bill's "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING," quote, and not screw it up with the current "Outing is two-thirds of Scouting" in the current book, Scouting would be better. An aside, my Bear Cub son even noticed that math mistake.

Nope, always 1) Hot wash 2)Warm rinse 3) Cold sanitize. I'd always put the water on while eating so that it would be hot when I needed it after the meal.

No problem and sorry if I took it the wrong way. Also another factor to think about with outdoor meetings: daylight. My pack is set up in which Monday nite is CS nite. All the dens meet at the same time and same place. I've been working on the outdoor stuff while I can: physical fitness and games, bike safety, and cooking have been the last three meetings, and can tell you with it getting dark earlier and earlier, it's getting more challenging. I've tried den field trips, but unless they are on a Monday and in town, few attend. I tried to get the den to do a hike at the local scout camp 20 minutes away twice, and a visit to a historic site also 20 minutes away, and had few scouts show up. Fow whatever reason Monday is Cub Scout Nite.

This is my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt, why Sea Scouts is not as widespread as it should be. 1) National has neglected the program for a long time. Let's face it, how many know that Sea Scouts is the second oldest program in the BSA, founded in 1912 here, and in the world (UK in 1909)? Best example of that was the BSA float in the Centennial Parade that had every current BSA emblem EXCEPT the First Class Anchor? Only the hard work of dedicated volunteers have kept the program alive. 1a)Lack of support on the local council level. If national is not supporting the program, why should the council? Also I can tell you Sea Scouts was only mentioned at one session when I went through PDL-1, and that was when they were introducing the Venturing program and mentioned that there is a Sea Scout Bronze award, which in a later conversation with the then nat. vent. dir. said could be retroactively awarded to those who earned Ordinary already. I kid you not, I attended a council level meeting wearing my Sea Scout khakis, and the SE asked me what I was wearing! 2) Expense. You need a lot more equipment, and more expensive too, to operate a ship than a pack, troop, team, or crew. Also got to figure in insurance too. 3) Training. Let's face it, in order to start a ship, you will not only need BSA training, but also seamanship training if you don't already have it. I probably left out other stuff, but that is off the top of my head at the moment.

'Rat, I admit I'm a native "Y'at" from "Nawlins" and hate the cold. So sometimes those indoor meetings on a cold day are a benefit EDITED: meetings do not need to be indoors, but IMHO a scout meeting, whether on patrol level or troop (I know many troops combine both these days) does need to occur so that the Scouts are prepared to work as a patrol to have fun on the monthly activity, preferably a camp out of some sort, but I can live with a hike, major service project taking several weekends, or fundraiser. END OF EDIT 'Dad, The biggest problem I see with what you propose is the BSA's current focus on NSPs and other 'age appropriate" patrols. In the old mixed scout patrol model I grew up in, the older scouts could mentor the younger ones in the same patrol. But with the trend to NSP then regular to Venture, I see challenges that need to be overcome. Not impossible, but overcome. (This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Short, I gotta disagree with you on the indoor meetings. That's where the learning of skills and planning for the monthly fun stuff comes in. So there is a purpose to it. BUT those weekly meetings DO need to have some fun outdoor games in them

'Rat, Agree with you 100% on the loops.

WELCOME TO DA FORUMS FIREEAGLE! As to your question, yes it is allowed to wear both the knot and medal on formal occasions, since 99.999% of folks have the knots sewn onto the uniform permanently. I have met one scouter who have attached knots to ribbon bars, so that one set of knots can be used for multiple uniforms AND he could wear knot his medals without the knots present. But he was an old, retired Devil Dog who still had a bit of the Corps in him. And some folks decide not to wear the medals at all.

83' is spot on. There is a TCDL position with specific training, award, and even a book to help plan meetings. And as stated each adult partner should help plan one month's meetings and activities. CN is also correct in that way back in the day(1982), Tigers were a separate program, had their own award, and'graduated" into Cub Scouts. That changes around 1989 or thereabouts, and cubs scouts, are with packs, but their uniforms are orange t-shirts still with the blue shorts, and blue and orange socks.The leader is called a Tiger Cub Coach. Then more changes occur and Tigers are fully integrated into the pack. they earn the Bobcat badge before the TC badge, they wear the full blue uniform (but for whatever reason still keep the orange and blue socks, RIGHT i'm gonna have my son buy socks he'll wear 1 year), and the TCC is the TCDL.

Ditto what Emb said. Scout needs to wear either the old red loops, or the new green loops. Only official special loops I've seen are those folks going to 2010 NSJ, and one scout I met who went to the 2011 WSJ, and national made those. There are a limited number of youth that can wear the silver and gold loops. I know in the OA section of the website, there was a discussion on this topic, i.e. can the Lodge Chief and/or Chapter Chiefs wear silver loops, wear districtor council committee patches and vote on the committees. If you read the literature, LC should be on exec board and has voting rights, but councils do not always follow. I've seen LCs wearing the extremely rare LC patch withthe silver loops, as well as repros and Council Committee patches. Kinda sad that a LC and CC don't have their own patch, yet the Venturing District President and Council President do have their own patches. OH well they can wear the council and district committee patches. EDITED: For got to add, they do not wear unit numbers with the district/council POR patches and silver loops.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Don't know if it is still the case in my neck of the woods, but the LDS units did not participate in FOS when I was a DE.

Again do not push it as it will only make the problem worse. TRUST ME ON THAT ONE (and caps are for emphasis, not shouting) Have him redirect his energies for the time being. AND once he is cleared for activities, I'd bet ya Walking will be one of the exercises the MD will want him to do.

Didn't Richard Pryor say that in Brewster's Millions? LOL

While I wasn't a Scout when it happened, I was a Scouter and youth Arrowman when my accident happened. Heck it was during an OA ceremony when it happened but that's a different story Anyway. As other have mentioned, if he wants to work on MBs, let him. If he can teach some scout skills at meetings, let him. Let him decide what to do and how to do it, BUT make sure he doesn't overdue it. Been there, done that, and made the situation worse

To quote da kid in INCREDIBLES... THAT WAS TOTALLY WICKED!

Kudu, Don't know when it started in dining halls, but I do know that Marine custom is that the offending Devil Dog wearing his cover has to buy a round to all present. As fornot wearing hats in churches, that is customary for some churches. Roman Catholic men do not wear hats in church, except the high up clergy which were specific hats.