Eagle92

Sailing, SSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH, don't let national know some of the cool stuff Sea Scouts are still allowed to do due to the nature of sailing.

Quaz, Do your older scouts teach your younger ones? I know scouts sometimes do not heed the advice of us old fogeys, but I haven't seen it when they do no listen to the advice of their older peers.

Skip, On this side of the pond, the use of the necker and woggle has been on the decline since 1972 when BSA made it an optional item. Also the BSA making them smaller, and IMHO useless for the many purposes the necker could be used for, contributed. One thing I was rather glad about my troop growing up, we had custom neckers, which I traded when I was on your side of the pond. BP, Yep Venturing has only been around for 13 years, but if you compare the first 13 years of Boy Scouts to Venturing, the "standard uniform," and I use quotes b/c many scouts of the time used GI surplus uniforms that were the model for official BSA uniforms, you will see an explosion in public awareness and growth. I say a standard uniform would contribute to a greater awareness of Venturing. Also I've seen sucessful troops that do not do many council activities. But those troops are usually "Hiking and Camping" troops that are in the outdoors a lot. Council activities tended to conflict with their plans. JB, You should have been around when Tigers were their own program, and had iron-on decals for their various achievments for the t-shirts.

Alas I am at that stage in scouting where I am playing packmule for the wife and 3 kids. In addition to my large internal frame pack, and my ALICE for the wife, each kid brings book bag, and the is usually a large cardboard box or two of supplies that I use my cart for. Needless to say I have a dream of someday packing light again. That said, oldest is using ALICE this weekend b/c he want to be able to carry his own gear. I think I am starting to be a bad influence on him

As I have mentioned previously whenever this topic appears, there is a definite public image of scouts, and uniforms are part of that image. there are a lot of advantages to having a uniform Is Scouting a "thing of the heart?" ABSOLUTELY you promise to live by the oath and law 24/7/365. Do I hate the cost of the uniform? ABSOLUTELY it is overpriced, not made of quality materials like it was back int he day, and I wish they would simplify it. I got 2 pairs of scout socks with holes in them from normal wear what are about a year old. I still have 10+ year old knee socks made in the USA that have been almost daily for 2-3 years, that are in better shape. Also oldest "bought", ok he paid 1/2 and I paid the other half, is CS pants, and less than a month later, the were damaged from normal wear, I think the zipper broke but don't remember. Someone mentioned Venturing, and the uniform option they have. I think that may be a small part of Venturing lack of publicty/ promotion: folks don't know who Venturers are.

I cannot remember what the standard is, 1/3 or 1/4 of total body weight (want to say 1/4) but whatever the standard is, that is what my troop used. Sometimes the older scouts had to carry a larger share of patrol gear than the younger scouts. One thing I've done and my troop has done, is "shake and bakes." He have folks put everything on a tarp or poncho to shakedown anything that is not needed. One time we had to "bake" someone as he tried to bring some reading material that mom would not approve. One thing I make a point of doing: even after doing a shake and bake, keep an eye onthe gear so folks do not lighten their load at the expense of others. On one trip, the one my pack broke on, my "buddy" developed a blister the size of a baseball (he deliberately got one and infected it to avoid the backpacking portion of training) We had already shaken down, but we left our packs with the patrol while we went to the medic. Long story short, when the word got back to the patrol that blisterboy wasn't going, his share of the patrol gear got added to my pack since I was his buddy. Was not a happy camper about that, especially since my no name pack frame broke under the weight.

Base, Yes the ALICE frame is a little heavy compared to today's current gear available. But at this stage it's not too bad for him and weekend trips. Now if he was going to Philmont, or another major backpacking trip, I'd encouraged him to get lighter stuff. Or figure out how to lighten his load using stuff we already have. One reason why I got a 6000+ cubic inch internal frame pack: lighter weight and more storage area for longer trips.

Just whatever you do, don't do it in a field of poison ivy. The results are not pretty. EDITED: make sure everyone, scout and adult alike, know what poison ivy, oak, and sumac look like. First camping trip I was ever on, my Webelos overniter, and the above happened to one of the dads on the trip.END EDIT Also make sure the scouts are well away from everyone when they do their business. On one trip I ran into 3 young ladies on the trail doing their business on a log. Kinda embarrassing. EDIT: This was a non Scouting trip.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

I'm skeptical of "noname" stuff. First backpack was one, and the frame broke in the middle of a week long trip. I definitely got what I paid for. Since then I have used was folks recommended. In the past when I was a poor scout, or poor college student, I'd use GI surplus. Some of the gear I still have and is usable, some I gave away. BUT I bet with the exception of 1 item I threw away, all of it is usable today. Heck my oldest will be using the ALICE pack I got "experienced" in 1988 this weekend. One minor repair was needed, switching a plastic locking device, and one major repair, repairing the lid pocket, has been done all this time, and both were done in the last 3 months. But once out in the world and could afford regular stuff, I started using non-GI surplus. Love my Camp Trails pack, love Eureka sleeping bag. Wife loves her Alps's sleeping bag. Love my Platypus gear. But with oldest starting to need gear, and of course his 2 younger brothers needing stuff in the future, I'm looking at surplus gear again. It's rugged (hey if it can withstand combat, it has a chance of withstanding Scouts ), easily available, and cheap.

Sometimes councils will expand NCS standards to everything, such as the NCS COPE standards. I remember at scout shows we built a "Bosun's Chair" exhibit. 2 tripods, one 30-40, the other 20-25 feet high, with wirerope (ok we cheated there )stretched out between the two and a bosun's chair ( essentially a board attached to rope and a pulley mechanism). Best recruiting tool for the troop, especially since we didn't have a feeder pack. Folks lined up for an hour or longer to ride. But council stopped it b/c it violated the NCS standard. They didn't want the liability.

Pride, sense of accomplishment, shows belonging, etc etc.

Base, Understood. I guess what I am trying to say is, help as much as you can, but don't let it take away form your scouts. I know how hard that is too. As for getting new leaders, and getting them up to speed,that is also my pack's challenge. We need 3 TCDLs, and probably another Wolf DL. recruiting parents is hard. Hopefully this weekend, I'll be talking to a few folks about how to go about it. One thing that may help convince some parents is the resource book that replaced Program Helps. Back in the day, alot of parents were concerend about what to do. Telling them about that resource,a nd the How To Book, helped ease fears.

Base, This may sound brutal or cruel or whatever you want to call it, but I stand by this. DO YOUR BEST FOR THE KIDS YOU ARE DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR AND HELP OTHERS AS YOU CAN. BUT YOUR PRIMARY DUTY IS TO YOUR CUBS! (caps for emphasis, not shouting). I've learned the hard way that you cannot do everything, b/c if you do, your scouts suffer. Good luck.

Lack of organization, i.e. challenges getting TCDLs, lack of information going out to parents about activities, last minute changes to activities etc. Long story short, CM had burned out, and it affected everyone. We got a new, well organized CM, a very active CC, and the making of a great committee. Biggest obstacle is getting TCDLs though. We are workign on that. Also it looks like we may need to break up the Wolves into 2 dens, so another DL will be needed if we keep adding Wolves..

Base, Have you contacted secodn hand stores liek Good Will, Salvation Army, etc? I know in my neck fo the woods, you cannot find anything scouting related at any of the second hand stores, except maybe the consignment shop, because our SCOUTREACH guy has contacted each store, told him the situation, and gets calls form them as they get stuff.

definately bring it to the attention of the district commish or DE. If a unit is losing members as fast as you say, there is a problem, and they need to know ASAP. We had a similar situation, and the unit folded. My pack had this problem last year, going from 15+ Tigers to 3. We solved out problem and now have 25+

Been a while since I was a UC or DE, but back in the day, if you were changing positions within a unit, you didn't need to fill out a new application, making the change at recharter time. Only exception to this was if a youth member aged out and had moved up to a scouter position, then an adult application would be needed. But if you serving in multiple positions, i.e. MBC and SM; DL and district committee member, ASM and crew advisor, etc. then a new adult app would be needed.

SSSHHHHHHH don't give anyone any ideas... the Brits already had to turn in their sheath knives, with the Chief Scout ceremoniously turning in theirs to law enforcement if memory serves.

Ok I don't know why. Kahuna's idea might be the reason. Beav's might be another reason. I do know that BP hits the nail on the head: be prepare to move every 3-5 years. If you don't move that often A) it may look bad job wise when you do want to move and/or get a promotion, and B) promotions WILL come slower. My FD was a DE for about 9-10 years before becoming a FD. he wouldn't relocate as his wife was the breadwinner, and had an established medical practice. Another FD I knew was a DE for over 10 years, sorry don't know the exact time, and then a FD for 10 years, all because he refused to move. He retired from his first job, and his wife was a senior administrator with the school system. Now the reason why I was told the DFS doesn't move up is because national reviews the strengths and weaknesses of the council, and selects a candiate pool that puts those who can turn around the council's weaknesses. For example, My council had membership issues at one time, and one SE was a membership guy who fixed the problem. My council has had a program problem, and a program guy is now SE. So our program is gathering strength.

This is what my troop used, with some modifications http://www.scoutstuff.org/trail-chef-aluminum-cook-kit.html What we modified was the number of plates and cups. We had 8 of each, not four. It's pricy, but kits are built to last as SSScout said. The patrol kits my troop had were old when I got in, possibly 20+ years. They are built to last, even with the abuse Scouts can give. Also as stated previously, if the scouts want to use the high dollar kits, let them buy their own.

I am not a WBer, but went thought BA22 and staffed JLT. Both had a more outdoor oriented focus than NYLT and WB21C. Yes leadership was taught, but it was more hands on. It seem as as if it was designed to get leaders comfortable with their outdoor skills, so that they would be confident enough to go back to their units, and lead by their example. Classes were taught out in the open, or under shelters. No rooms were needed, no projectors and laptops, no smartboards. Only needed to lash a tripod together, grab your markers and pad, and teach the class. But my understanding is that WB21C, and hence NYLT, had a lot of professional management consultants involved in the process of making the course. Folks who are use to doign this with the latest, greatest, state of the art equipment that a company can buy and train their managers with. While technology is nice, it has taken something away from WB21C from what I've been told, and read online. As for why changes cannot be made, it's my understanding that some type of contract with the consultants is involved. Maybe the 4 beaders can elaborate?

A recent experience with fuzz sticks. A few years back, one of the camporee events was to tie a square knot with spaghetti. Now that entailed building and lighting a fire, boiling water, and, of course, tying a knot. We provided wood, matches, axe, pot, and spaghetti. All they needed was a pocketknife. I do not know how many patrols used fuzz sticks, but only 2 were able to get the fire started. One patrol that made fuzz sticks and had no help whatsoever, and a NSP who were completely clueless as building and starting fires. The Judges got so frustrated with the NSP, that they showed them twice on how to make fuzz sticks, and how to build a fire.

Again the no ribbons, let's face it knots are descended form military ribbons, and same medal rule is military, not BSA. Most folks in the military wear ribbon bars with the ribbons on them, although if memory serves they can be sewed on directly to the uniform for USMC and USN, but don't quote me on that. BSA policy does allow both to be worn on special occasions. But if you fell uncomfortable doing so, then don't as that is your right.

'Fish, Biggest difference between CS rank and BS Rank is that the members of the board of review must sign the form. At least that's how it's suppose to be done. I've seen it where the CC and some other committee members will sign the forms for the various BORs in multiple ones are done in a nite.

Used them in the past, and think it's good to know. But in my neckof the woods, lots of pine needles and cones to start fires with.