Eagle92

Scoutnut, One reason training records are a mess is that they were not considered needed until recently. Let's face it ythe limited number of folks at a council with SCOUTNET access have a choice: have 280 new members put into the system which the council uses to meets it various goals, or input 20 leaders who just got trained, but the stats don't go anywhere. As a digression, I am willing to bet that is why CS records have been inadequate as well until recently: put in 100 Cub records that just get in the system and stay, or enter the 20 BS records which will be reviewed and sent to national with the Eagle application. Luckily JTE is fixing that. Also another reason I bet that council's allow substitutions is that they do not have enough training cadre to do all the trainings. Which is probably why the trainings are going to a one size fits all approach.

Well all I can say is that I asked about BALOO and if I had to take it since I had SMF back in the day, and taught IOLS. Council said yes. I hate to say this, but I think that each council, heck each person you talk to, will say something different.

While I know a WFA may be cost prohibitive, I'ddefinately get a copy of the teh BSA's WFA book. It's about $6, and fits in a first aid kit. I know it is already out of date in some things, it was published in 2010 and AHA changed things a bit in 2011 in regards to CPR, but what I've read so far, it's a good deal. Also the use of competitions and havign them think outside the box are excellent.

Base, Not revenge, as that implies you doing something deliberately to them in retaliation. That is not what Scouting is about, and IMHO that would negate all the good work you do. Rather it is showing them that you are not going to let them control you, you are going to achieve your goals, and you are not going to let them get you down. Ok they placed an obstacle in front of your goal of providing a great program for your Cubs and those in your district. Fine, you take it on and meet it head on and follow through. If they want to change the game after obviously proving that you are 100% for the kids by meeting their challenge to get WB, then that is their problem.

Short, I know someone who use to bring automatic weapons on scout camping trips. But the scouter was working with Vietnamese Boy Scouts durign the war. I still remember Sec. Gates speaking at NLTC in '98 about his expereince on a father-son camp out with his son's troop while head of the CIA. If memory serves, he said he had a platoon's worth of security people with Uzis and two communications vans in the background around the campsite.

Definately call. Emails get ignored very easily. I had a Cub who was active over the summer, and was scheduled to attend 2 trips with the pack that didn't show up for over a month. Emails got no response. Phone call and a message got a very quick return call explaining what's going on, and that he'd see me on the trip. But sometimes, phone numbers change/get disconnected, and messages do not get returned.

Base, I'd go ahead, turn in the ticket items as complete, and get your beads. If you don't want a public ceremoony, fine and dandy. But May I recommend a brief, stressing BRIEF, one at BnG, or a pack campout? Why get the beads? 1)They do show you care about your kids. You may not have learned much at the training, but your purpose ( getting the "cred" to do things for your Cubs and the other packs in your district) is very worthy. 2) I'm willing to bet your ticket items involved your Cubs. Again it shows you care. And while the sentiment about WB may be that now in your district, attitudes change. One example: BA22 was one fo the most talked about activities for youth in my old council, and BA22 participants were very visable. When it changed to JLT, something was lost, and the attitude of youth training fell to the wayside for a few years. Then after 6 years, something resparked interest in youth training. 3)I've found the best way to get back at adversaries who put obstacles in your way, is to succeed at overcoming those obstacles. Those beads symbolize your attitude to "Illegitimi non carborundum," and will upset the folks who put that obstacle in your way. Trust me on that one. I had a DFS who gave me a challening set of critical achievements. A third of the way through the year and after meeting or exceeding several, he deleted some (ones I exceeded), rewrote others to make more challenging (ones I had met already), and gave me a few new ones (my fav was the council event that I had 4 or 5 weeks to plan, organize, recruit, promote, and execute.)When the revised CAs were met, or exceeded again, it really steamed him up.

If a scout has completed the requirements, then takes a hiatus for whatever reason, he has still completed the requirements. I'll give you an example. I know a scout who busted butt to complete everything before a certain date, b/c he knew he was not going to be able to attend anything after that date for a period of time. He got everything in but a EBOR b/c the district couldn't find a rep to attend. So he is gone for a months, comes back and tries to have his EBOR. No one had a problem as he did meet the requirements, but since it was after his 18th birhtday and the deadline to appeal to the council, his appeal went to national instead. Ok he wasn't active in the troop for several months, But he did everything an met the requirements. Luckily the Scout did get approval for his EBOR form national, and it was a pro forma EBOR as he had a "discussion" with the folks who would have been on the EBOR about Scouting, life goals, and how he did at boot camp. I'll give you my own case. At my EBOR, the DAC tried to deny me b/c he did not approve my project. Well my project was planned, approved, and completed 4.5 years prior to my EBOR. I admit I goofed off, I had fun doing BA22, NSJ, 50 Miler, ad nauseum with scouts. I also had to support myself once the old man walked out. And there was a period of time my senior year where I was missing almost every meeting b/c of football games. But I met the requirements, so why should I be denied?

Jay, No, IOLS does not, repeat NOT, take the place of BALOO. Trust me I have taught IOLS, and I had to go through BALOO so I could take the pack camping. As stated previously, at one time National was thinking about combining WeLOT and IOLS into one course, but has stepped back from that at this time. However I have heard a lot of district's will combine the two, or only offer IOLS, allowing the WDLs to go through it and get credit for both. Cannot wait for next year when oldest is a Webelos and the den can camp on their own.

My understanding is that like WB21C, all CDs for NYLT must, repeat MUST, follow the new syllabus, and that includes generic terms and allowing females. So no more old courses. I agree, if WB21C can use the patrol concept with CS and Venturing leaders, why not NYLT. I'm glad i did the old school courses.

"Assistant Course Director of Youth Operations." ROTFLMAO, you got to be joking, right?

How about we use the Sea Scout model for "active membership" From 3 of the four ranks. Ordinary Sea Scout 2. Active Membership a.Attend at least 75 percent of your ship's meetings and activities for six months. Note: Check with your ship's yeoman. Able Sea Scout 2.Active Membership a.Attend at least 75 percent of your ship's meetings and special activities for one year. Note: Check with your ship's yeoman. Quartermaster 2. Active Membership a.Attend at least 75 percent of your ship's meetings and special activities for 18 months. Note: Check with your ship's yeoman.

Stosh, I like the way you think. I remember my First Aid MB class and how the MBC took us on hikes and gave us scenarios on the trail. Could only use what we had on hand and what we could find. Best first aid class I ever took, and I wish the AHA first aid classes had more hands on today. Kinda boring watching a video, and having limited action.

As I stated, I see asking about MBs and the MBCs part of the quality control of the district and/or council in regards to MBCs. They need to ask about that to Find out which MBCs are actually doing their job, and which ones are not.That way if issues do arise,it can be rectified. But as others have said, once signed off, it's a doen deal. As for this question with modifications in parenthesis: If (a) Scout earned Life and 20 MBs by age 13, then earned the last MB (five) days before his 18th birthday, it's reasonable to ask what he did for five years. Hopefully the Scout can answer, "HAVING A BLAST," (caps is for shouting this time )and enumerate all the different activities he did with scouts in the past 5 years as a Life. I know that's what I said.

WOW. I thought I had a tough EBOR with the DAC asking me "what if we told you that you didn't make Eagle?" after what I thought was a good EBOR and being sent outside for the EBOR to consider. (His problem was that HE didn't approve my project since the project was completed 4 years earlier, but I digress). While I can see some legitimacy to asking where he got his MBs from, who his councilors were, and what he thought about them and the MBs (for me that's quality control of the MB program, not meant to insult the Scout), but if the attitude and tone was condescending, that is wrong and inappropriate. Now my concern for Scout is this: IS THE SCOUT HAVING FUN? (caps for emphasis). You probably remember my history, Eagle Cousin and "Double Eagle" Uncle put some pressure on me to get Eagle young. I chose the longer, more fun trail . I just hope that A) no one pressured him to get it by 14, B) no one is pressuring to get the Hornaday and National Outdoor Awards, C) he is giving back to scouting by mentoring the younger scouts, and D) he's having fun. Ok off the soapbox EDITED: Bneleon reminded me, when was "lasting value" a part of the process? My project had none, only a temporary one making children in the hospital a little happier for Christmas. Best IMHO, hardest working, long term planning, and overall most difficult project one of my Eagles was a complete failure in the long term. He tried to reforest a swamp, spent a year planning, fundraising, organizing, etc, only to have some nutria eat up all the saplings, despite the nutria guards he built ber USDA specs. 6 months after his EBOR, 9-12 months after completing the project, all of the trees were gone.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Yes and no. We have flags that someone made, but they are only used at pack meetings to tell folks where to sit. They are homemade, being a blue flag with the necker sewed onto it. Now I did buy a TC flag a few years back, and had every TC sign it at the end of the year. Kinda depressing when we only had 1/2 the Tigers return in the fall. And we lost some of the ones who did day camp and the summertime activities.

Guy, I WOULD, caps for emphasis, bring it to the attention of the district. those on the EBOR do need to set the example. They may not be in uniform, but they could at least dress appropriately and follow the guidance for the Eagle candidates in the advancement guidelines.

Shutter, He could always bring his baseball uniform on a hanger and change either at the meeting before leaving, or at the field. We had many Scouts doing that in my troop, including yours truly. Only it wasn't sports but dances .

I admit I am more of the literal minded: it says do 100 hours of service work, you do 100 hours of service work. No ifs ands or buts about it. But that is based upon my HS. See I volunteered as a swimming aid until I got certified as an instructor. Easily got 20 hours a week for 8 weeks for 2 summers. No problem, but my school said you had to do the 100 hours between Jan 1 of JR. year, and Dec 31st of SR. Year. So none of that counted. Ok no problem for me, I'll just teach swim lessons gratis for 100 hours, then get paid. Teacher in charge said no dice since it hints at double dipping. On a different, I see where confusion can come about, especially with kids these days. County I work in has a "service project" requirement, but the interpretation is so vague, that folks coming into the hospital to shadow meet that requirement. Even the local NHS accept shadowing as service.

In refernce to blacks, slavery, Jim Crow, et al, this comment got to me for whatever reason. Please list the names of those "intelligentsia" and give some quotes or citations for their claims. I'd suggest also looking up eugenics. A lot of people believed that non-whites were inferior, and used science to "prove" it. This led to the Eugenics Movement in the USA in the late 1800s, early 1900s. Hitler got his idea for the Nuremberg Laws, sterilization program for Afro-Germans, and euthanasia programs from the ideas and proposals of the US's eugenics movement. This eventually led to the Holocaust and the extermination of Jews, Gypsies, Afro-Germans (not many and were all sterilized in the 30s to begin with)and other "racial undesirables." Sorry I cannot cite the best work on the topic that I know of, but the mom-in-law has borrowed it. Used it for a class on the Holocaust back in the day, and kept the book.

LeVoy, Pamlico Sea Base in East Carolina Council is another council owned HA base.

I've seen units do there own thing. While I admit I wish they would participate in some district/council activities, as long as the unit is thriving, I'm cool with it. It's when the unit begins to flounder, that's when I get concerned. We had 1 unit like that, and it folded. Have another that no one really knows the deal about, but again as far as we know they are thriving. That one is LDS, and they rarely attend things.

Moose, I haven't seen the movie, but if it's based upon the book, there should have been more than one case discussed. In the New Orleans instance, it was a group of homosexuals who created the scout troop for the sole purpose of molesting youth. None of the individuals involved were married according to the information I came across. But besides that, it doesn't matter if the information that an indiviual believes is true or not. It is their reaction to that belief, and at this time I can see large numbers of scouts leaving the movement if the policy changes.

JW, A few comments. 1) RECORDS ARE VERY IMPORTANT AND KEEP THEM FOR A LONG TIME, LIKE 8+ YEARS. (caps for emphasis, not shouting). I've seen folks denied their Eagle b/c the council records were messed up. had to go back through records, and handbooks for some missing records, to correct the council records. Heck I had to go and update my den's records b/c they were showing folks had not earned their ranks, when thy did. 2) the troop record book is available via supply, and should be the responibility of the troop scribe. They also use to make a smaller version for PLs to keep track of things. Both are good for 12 calander months if memory serves. 3) As for the advancement poster, some folks use them, others don't. My troop didn't. I know of units with their own hut,or own room that have come up with other, more creative ways, or recording who is what. 4) best resource I recommend for you and your SPL is the Troop Program Features, Vols 1-3, and Troop resource book. TPF will allow your PLC to pick from 36 monthly programs that they can modify to suit their needs. Good luck.

Having sat and seen EBORs on the district level, I can tell you that not everyone on the EBOR may be active with a unit, but rather a businessman on the district committee who may not even own a uniform, or not even registered in Scouting. I know of one person on the district advancement committee, whom I am trying to recruit for the unit as his son is in my den, is in this catagory. I've also heard of the mayor and some local politicians sitting on EBORs. I know the mayor is an Eagle, is very interested in the program, and takes every opportunity to visit activities when invited and able.