Eagle92

Some Cub Scout leaders wear the green numbers and green trained strip. I'm sure this is because of the confusing communications early on. That said, no one cares and it does not really matter. Their uniforms still look good. That's because it's vintage Aug 2008-Apr 2009 CS leader uniform.

KEEP THOSE PARENTS BUSY IN THEIR OWN CAMPSITE AND AWAY FROMT HE SCOUTS. And yes i am shouting at the top of my lungs Seriously a few ideas as I may be dealing with the situation in the very near future. 1)Get the adults to training ASAP. While training is not the end all be all cure, it may help. If the parents can understand what is going on, as painful as it may be for them to watch 'organized chaos" they may get it. 2)Orient them to the troop's culture, and Boy Scouts in general. Every troop is different so in addition to the general info, talk specific about the troop. io'd go so far as to use some scenes from FOLLOW ME BOYS. 3) When camping assign duties to them just as a PL assigns duties to the patrol members. that should keep them busy and out of the scouts' hair. Then organize activities for them to keep them busy. 4) keep repeating the following phrases: " train them, trust them, let them lead, " and "Have you asked your PL/SPL?" sothat the parents know what is expected.

What is under discussion is parental or clergy PERCEPTION by individuals who do have boys and/or followers in the program who may have bad information or no information. If these folks, who already are suspecting something is up, encounter what seems an organized campaign to thwart their investigation or concerns, they will see this as proof that something negative is really going on. Creative accomodations can alleviate their fears and still preserve the "confidentiality" of the ceremony. Staunch objection and subverting the rules could be a Council or National "Black Eye". Agree with you 100% Sometimes discussing the matter, providing scripts, informing folks of who they know who are in the OA will alleviate fears. I know when we do info sessions that does the job. But sometimes it doesn't. Again I had a situation where I was trying to talk someone into just having their son attend period. Not trying to dissuade her from seeing the ceremony, but trying to inform her about the facts on the OA and how what they have heard and and read on the internet is total garbage; informing them of the members in their troop, including their SM who was a past section officer, etc just didn't work either.

A few things. 1) probably used whatever props they had 2) folks making the video had no idea what color is what, or which patch is worn wear for that matter. I've seen a TC wearing a wolf and bear badge in a photo from national. Also saw venturers wearing green pants and not gray.

It is doable, just fold over, making tube, and flatten the tape to both shirt and patch. It will leave a little glue residue when you take it off.

Stosh, Before I learned the beauty that is duct tape. Actually i learned about duct tape that week. Also staples can be your friend too. I had a patch fall off one time, and I stapled it until I could sew it on. A bit of a hijack now If your solution to a woodpecker hole on your rapelling tower is steel wool and ducttape, you might be a COPE Director. If your solution to the 16" hole in the camp's canoe is 2 pieces of duct tape, you might be an Aquatics Director. And if your solution to fixing a 2" hole in your sailboat is duct tape, you migt be a Sea Scout. BUT... If you think duct tape is the root of all evil after seeing new scouts try using duct tape for pioneering projects, you might be a Scout Craft Director.

Stosh, Not that simple. It was way back in the day when I was taking Brownsea 22. VERY STRICT ABOUT UNIFORMS (caps for emphasis). I safety pinned and then hemmed as I had the chance.

Don't know about unit level, but can tell you about this happening on the district level. Long story short, all three committee members were no longer involved at the district level, and only 1 remained active in scouting, but on the unit level. One committee member was having an affair with another member. When the spouse, also on the committee, found out, a restraining order was filled out against the adulterous spouse. Some council event occurred and the separated pair were both in attendance, which violated the restraining order. That's when all three were taken off the committee. I do not know if membership was revoked on the two having an affair, but the offended spouse stay one with the Venturing crew one child was in. Personally I think the COR and CC need to ask them to stay away for a spell.

Ok I admit I'm still looking. Some stuff is easy to search, others a bit more challenging. Plus some stuff is put away. Here's what I've found so far. Sorry it's not letting me cut and paste. Guide to Inductions 2005 ed, 2007 revision p. 2 Talks about safeguarding P. 17-22 talk about teh Call Out ceremony and how that is the public recognition for the scout. Now this is not a national site, but a lodeg one. But there is a quote, that as I have repeatedly stated, parent have the right to attend if they insist. http://www.witauchsoman.org/Parents.html "The induction is not a hazing or an initiation ceremony. The Order is not a secret Scout organization, and its ceremonies are open to any parent, Scout leader, or religious leader. There is an element of mystery in the ceremonies for the sake of its effect on the candidates. For this reason, ceremonies are not put on in public. The ceremonies...are not objectionable to any religious group." BUT later on the same page "question: Why does the OA keep most of it's activities secret? Answer: First of all, as stated previously, the Order of the Arrow is not a secret organization. Rather, we recognize that an aura of mystery not only stimulates interest in the Lodge, but also helps new members feel proud of an accomplishment that is not achieved by every Scout. Most candidates receive less benefits from the induction if they know about the induction in advance. Knowledge lowers expectancy, dulls the edge of experience. In other words, you hurt candidates by telling them about the "Ordeal." Parents should feel free to discuss the experiences their children had at the Ordeal, after it's completion. The Order of the Arrow is happy to share any pertinent information about our activities with legitimately interested individuals. For more information, one should contact the Witauchsoman Adviser" Emphasis mine. Again I apologize for the delay, but I thought that the information was in one of my PDF files and easily searchable. It appears that the policy is in one of the books that I do not have in pdf file.

My council was one of the pilot's for the PWC. BUT it was part of the HA base we have if memory serves, not part of normal summer camp. And there were restriction in place due to NC laws. Had to be 16+ to do it due to the laws if memory serves.

Not sewing patches, but hemming shorts. Long story short, I had to cut a pair of pants into shorts while camping. I had my repair kit and hemmed them up in my little free time.

Your mom's story is similar to mine. Except I was Webelos, she had just finished sewing on a temp patch abotu 10 mintues before the Pack meeting, and I cut off the patch atthe pack meeting and ask her to sew on the new one I got. I learned to sew real fast When I have done district level uniform inspections, in my old council it was a once a year event, and with my current one it's done at camporee as an event, I always bring sewing kit, including scissors and/or seam ripper, so that folks can fix things prior to the inspection. Back in the day, if we had the incorrect POR on, points were deducted from our inspection score at the troop's weekely inspection. It was part of the honor patrol award, and sometimes inspection scores were the deciding factor. An aside. I remember one camporee that had a troop merge several patrols together, basically creating a "ringer" patrol of all older scouts. They got nailed on the uniform inspection b/c they had 2 or 3 PLs, APls and about 3 or 4 different patrol medallions on. they were given the chance to fix the problem prior to the inspection, and wouldn't do it. No reason was given, but me thinks they didn't want to resew the stuff back on once the weekend was over.

It was interesting at one Pack meeting when the pins were being given out, the CM asked one of the boys if he was having fun. He answered with an enthusiastic YES. Then he asked him what he had done to earn his Readyman pin. He honestly told the CM he didn't know. Everyone in the place was thus staring at me including the CM. I stood up and asked the boy if he knows anything about first aid. He beamed and started rattling off all the stuff he knew about first aid and the trip to the rescue unit, etc. etc. The CM got the second boy up there and asked the same first question about fun, but then asked what he had done to get the Communicator pin. Again blank a stare. I asked the boys how many of them learned Morse Code and got to play as long as they wanted to at the campout with their flashlights. Gotta know the right questions to ask. ALRIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I beleive BP said something along the lines that advancement should as naturally as a suntan, somethign that happens normally in the outdoors.

TT, Gotta remember that G2A is based somewhat on the various Eagle Scout appeals that have occured. I have heard of several appeals based upon scouts being in a POR, but supposedly not getting mentored and/or trained in the role. Whether they're true or not, I do not know. By having a "paper trail" you can show during an appeal exactly what you have done to try and rectify the situation. Without the paperwork, it's he said/she said situation.

SP, Actually the policy I am using is within the past 2-3 years, Again please be patient as I had a den meeting last night ( Whittling Chip and no blood YES!!!!!) And hope to have time to search my policies tonite, barring any complications. As for my YPT, I'm current with it, as well as the camp staff one. But my VYPT may be out of date Again please be patient while I get the source of the OA policy, there are a lot of them.

SP, Please read what I posted. Do I have concerns about nonmembers at ceremonies, yes I do. Does OA policy say to try and dissuade parents from attending, yes it does and I'll find the citations within the next 2 days for you. Does OA policy also say that if parents insist, they attend, yes it does. Did I state that I've seen both the good and bad, maybe not as clearly as I could have, but yes I have. TF, 1) I think your ideas are very good, with the addition of making a group intro instead of a unit intro to the OA for parents and candidates. As I mentioned we have a chapter info session and it works well. 2) If you recall, when the bad situation arose, I handed it off to the youth leadership. I'm an old fogey, I have no say in anything anymore. I, like you, beleive thatyou need to let the youth deal with these situations as they are in charge. Only the Supreme Chief of the Fire, aka the Scout Exec or his appointed designate can overule the youth. And I have seen that happen. 3) Also I think the youth, although I'm not 100% sure on this as I am not as active wiht the OA as I use to be, have come up with a solution, and implemented it with the good situation I described. Again I had no problems. Dennis, As I stated national OA policy is to dissuade non-members from attending, but if they insist let the parents and/or clergy attend. When I get the chance I'll cite the source, but it may be 2 days. As far as ego goes, that is not it. Arrowman promise to carry on and keep traditions in the OA alive. One of those traditions does concern non-members, and there are national OA policies in place in regards to this situation. Now do traditions change over time, absolutely. Tap Outs to Call Outs is one example of change. No more different colored borders on lodge flaps is another example of change. I may not agree with the changes, but I am obligated to follow them. Just as the I follow OA policy on this topic. OA has been around for almost 100 years, and there are a lot of traditions in the OA, as well as a lot of policies to boot.

BD, I actually had the opposite experinces. My patrol in BA22 was the youngest patrol with 13 and 14yos, and one 12.5yo who caused a lot of problems. We were the worst patrol and never did gell together. I hate to say it, but 2 years after BA22, one of the guys in my patrol attended my HS, and we didn't acknowledge one another. yes it was that bad. And when I staffed JLT, again the youngest patrol had the most challenges and problems. In fact one of their members played a joke that ended up with 3/4s of the patrol leaving the course early b/c of illness.

I didn't want to post here, but here it goes. 1) Parents have every right to attend OA ceremonies. 2) Per OA policies, sorry cannot cite the exact source at this time maybe later, non-members should be discouraged from attending. Everything should be explained to the concerned non-member, i.e. ceremony scripts available, explanations, etc. BUT IF THE PARENTS AND/OR CLERGY STILL WANT TO SEE THE CEREMONY, THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT. ( caps for emphasis, not shouting). Again I will post the citations when I can, hopefully in the next 2 days. 3) I think the suggestions TF made a few pages back are good ones, and I hope someone nationally read them. 4) As I stated, I attended one Ordeal where the entire family showed up, tried to film and videotape it, etc. Luckily It was handled properly. This situation reoccuring is my concern. But I also had one where Dad showed up. I know the dad, and he is a bit on the overprotective side, had legitimate concerns, and stayed the entire weekend. But dad was respectful. I do not know if dad attended the ceremony or not, I was actually in the ceremony with the new members since I was one of their "friends" going through the ordeal with them, but I do know he worked with the chapter in doing work on rebuilding the camp after the hurricane. Again my concern is ruining the expereince for the other new members.

One I saw is prettt cool IMHO. Only thing permanent on the wall is the patrol name and logo. On that sign is two loops on the bottom. Each scout when they join the troop gets a name board with enough space for sticker with ranks on them. I want to say the stickers are actual size of the ranks. On top of each name board is two hooks, and underneath are two loops. Only the first name and last intial are used if memory serves. As each scout moves from patrol to patrol, the name board gets moved. And as they earn rank, a sticker with the bade goes on the board.

BD, As you know I've not attended WB, not staffed NYLT, but did go through BA22 and staffed JLT. So my perspective comes from those experiences. When my council did JLT back in the day after a several year hiatus, All the youth staffing had to go through NJLC at Philmont, and all the adult had to either have their beads, or working their tickets. I was the exception. I was a 20 year old and put in the SPL position. I did not have to attend the Philmont staffer's course, nor did I have to go through WB because I went through the last BA22 course the council did, and the training folks considered it equivalent to WB. In regards to 18 year olds taking WB vs. NYLT, One of my JLT staffers was 17 when staffing JLT. He turned 18 just after the course and attended WB about 2 or 3 months after staffing JLT. He told me WB was a waste of his time since everything covered at WB was covered at JLT. From these two experiences, I say let the GASers go to WB21C In regards to Venturers and camping, depending upon your aduolt POR, you do not have to have any outdoor training to attend WB21C. So why should it matter for Venturers attending NYLT if the two courses are so identical that staffers can earn their 3rd and 4th beads doing NYLT? Now this is me going off on a tangent. I find it frustrating that adult NYLT staffers can earn their 3rd and 4th WB bead who meet certain requirements, but their is no recognition for the youth staffers or those adults who have not gone through WB21C yet. If the courses are so similar, and by all accounts I've been told the only thing that is different is the ages and the ticket, Why not award beads for NYLT as well? I really think a different, NATIONAL (I've seen local ones) staff recognition be used instead of WB beads unless EVERYONE will be able to earn them.

Moose, I believe Beavah mentioned some of the European countries are like that, I believe Belgium is one of them, but the Brits are not like that.

Isn't competition what camporees are for?

'Fish I would not make Webelos a 3 year program as I already have Webelos IIs who are bored and cannot wait to become Boy Scouts. They are chomping at the bit and are ready to go.

Well if you want to redo structure let's totally whack it our the ball field and tick some folks off, including 2 of me three sons who are chomping at the bit to be Cubs. Grades 2,3 = CUBS Grades 4,5 = Webelos Grades 6,7,8,9 = Boy Scouts Grades 10,11,12 = Senior Scouts, Varsity ages 18-21 = Sea Scouts and Venturing Ages 22+ = Old Fogeys In regards to Varsity, what are the numbers on them? TBH only time I've ever seen Varsity Scouts was in the Centennial Parade. Also I know when I worked in the scout shop, the only person to have bought any of the Varsity/Venture Pins and letters was when I was creating a HA program at summer camp, and was using them as the recognition awards.

In regards to cubs, We need them, but we also need to put the OUTING in Cub ScOUTING. If OUTING is 3/4s of ScOUTING, then it needs to be 6/11s of Cub ScOUTING. I've lost cubs b/c we do not do enough camping.