Eagle92

LaV, When I was at NOAC a whiles back, one of the things I picked up from ceremony classes was that lodges and chapters were suppose to do their homework, do research and make the regalia as authentic as possible (let's face it some things you need "imitation" i.e artificial sinew ) I know when I was in SE LA, doing the research, we picked early 1800s colonial period for our regalia. The best ceremony team I ever saw, and i competed against them at NOAC, was from the FL/GA border, and their regalia kicked butt and took names. However, depending upon who you talk to, it was Choctaw ( GA folks) or Seminole ( Fl folks) Yes I agree 110%, most teams are "Hollywood" Indians and are FARBY!. Sad thing is I've seen folks who know better go farb, b/c that is the expectation.

Wow, one of my councils I was in is in trouble, they used the BSA fire sparks as Round Up items, and sell them at summer camp. I think the previous comment is going overboard.

In my neck of the woods, districts put on training with minimal to no cost. Distict has a budget for that. Yes we charge for some training, but not enough. Plus the district banquet has sponsors for it to keep costs low for all leaders to attend. We have sponsors for it. Also some district activities do lose money. I know I did with CSDC.

OUTSTANDING! I know of an Eagle collected toys for the local "charity" hospital's pediatric ward. When the scout delivered the toys he collected, he cried afterwards and thanked God for his blessings.

Here's my take on it. 1) One of the pages discusses how participants get things signed off just like the scouts do as they complete the different modules. That concerns me greatly because IMHO it reinforces the "one and done" mentality and not true mastery of a skill as was expected in previous editions of the BSHB, or "proficiency" as expected in the GTA. 2) Way I see it, a scouter should not expect a Scout to do a skill when he cannot. I think Scouters need to set the example and be able to do just what the scouts are able to do. 3) part of the learning process is teaching the skill. So i have no problems with participants with the skills already teaching the other participants. BUT leaders need to know that A) Scouts do the teaching in their units and B) we guide and mentor those instructors who have challenges teaching their fellow scouts. so being able to come up with ideas is a good thing. 4)In regards to First Aid, that is not WRFA as that is a 16 hour long course. More than likely it was a FA MB course, but placed in the outdoors and using real life scenarios. As an AHA FA/CPR/AED instuctor, I prefer how FA MB is taught to AHA's watching a video.

Yep Pappa described Tap Outs. Unfortunately if I would have attended my Tap Out Ceremony, I would have been the last group to do so legitimately as the ban came into place the following year. Unfortunately I was out sick, and couldn't attend camporee. And yes "cheerful service" scares the heck out of people, and they want to know what's in it for me. I was at a large troop who had 18 eligible. The Election/Camp Promo Team (we do it all in one nite)went into as much detail as possible about what the OA does, both the fun and the cheerful service. 9 of the folks backed out that nite prior to the election. 5 got elected and letters inviting them to our Candidate Orientation and Chapter Social were sent, with 1 attending. I called the other 4 and the results were the following: 1 Couldn't make the meeting but would be at Ordeal. he showed up at Ordeal, and backed out at the Pre-Ordeal Ceremony when he found out about the tests. 1 Scout's Mom said that son was not interested since it would take time away form him getting Eagle, and "nothing is coming between him and Eagle." Oh he was a freshman in HS. 1 never responded to any calls. 1 Scout's mom was the one I had the 90+ minute phone call about the OA. The one that attended the meeting did go through the Ordeal, but had panic attacks throughout the Ordeal. Since dad was a member in his youth, and the Ordeal was at the local camp 20 minutes away, Dad showed up, watched son go through the Ceremony, and then took him home immediately after the ceremony. No new member orientation, no new member packet with book, lodge info, etc, no lodge cracker barrell after the ceremonies. NADA. he just went home with his sash and was never seen again. What's interesting is the old SM who was a lodge and section officer politely criticized how the team conducted the election. He said they should have focused more on the fun stuff and not mention the Work Work Work that the WWW represents.

Mixed emotions. Glad they planned it themselves. Focusing on MBs I have questions about. Now if the meeting focuses on skill that can lead to a MB, that's one thing. But if the sole purpose is a MB, HMMM. Anyway read the Troop Meeting Planner vols 1-2, use to be called Woods Wisdom? each volumer gives ideas, stress IDEAS for meetings.

PWC and ATVs are experimental programs on the council level. if memory serves, my council had to jump through some hurdles with national to be part of the experiment. there is a process involved.

Pack, Problem is you have some youth who are not challenged by their troops, but are challenged by the OA. Ditto with some young adults. I know in my case, when I turned 18, I joined Sea Scouts for a challenge, and was disappointed. Yes it was fun, but something was missing. I rejoined the OA after summer camp and went to conclave, and the thing the OA supplied that missing challenge that Sea Scouts didn't. And since the unit is the focus of the OA, it refocused my attentions on the unit. In regards to ceremonies, they have their place. but the focus needs to be on cheerful service. As for resume lines, depending upon what you do the OA could be a resume builder. There is a difference between being a member and doing little to nothing, and being a committee chair with XYZ responsibilities.

'90 Reason for doing away with the Tap Outs was that under some jurisdictions, it was considered "Child Abuse." I too thought the rumor about it was bogus, until I read it in the OA history book.

Sewing Cooking Critical thinking skills, i.e. when given a situation they can comeup with a solution.

I've been in troops where they met quarterly wherever the SPL could arrange it. Sometimes at the troop's location, sometimes elsewhere. And one time it was planning session w/ a cookout and pool party celebrating the completion og making a troop calander and dealing with 12+ individual school calanders. I've been in a troop where the PLC met before the committee meeting at the troop's meeting place. I've been in a troop that met before SM's meeting. I've read of PLCs doing a separate planning campout. So your SPL can do it any way that is convienent with his PLC.

Here are my thoughts. 1) Bring back the more restrictive, pre-1990s election procedures. Back in the day, it was the 'creme de la creme" getting elected as you could only vote for 1/2 the eligible Scouts. It really forced folks to think who were the best. Now did it cause some challenges, absolutely. It took 3 elections before I was voted in. First election wasn't bad as the folks nominated were outstanding. Heck I didn't even vote for myself as there were two others more worthy, and I was the brand new First Class Scout who barely made the rank requirements. But the second election did cause some hurt feelings as a bunch of new scouts came into the troop who only knew their Den Chief, and he was an older brother. And there were enough new members to give him the election. But it was an educational expereince and in retrospect a good one. Third time was the charm 2) Bring back the standards of the Ordeals of the past. I've seen folks get into the OA who talked almost non-stop. I also heard of one Ordeal where an entire group of cadidates stopped working, but still got in b/c the lodge didn't haev the authority to send someone home, or at least that is what the LA told me. Glad I missed that Ordeal. 3) OA needs better promotion. I've discussed that one at length in other posts, esp in rebuilding a chapter. 4)I think ceremonialists need to get their act together. I am seeing to many teams that just go through the motions, and not putting any life into the ceremonies.

Yep every lodge is different, as well as the relationship with the local nations. Like I said the lodge I started out in had a great relationship that soured because of one group of folks, but time and a group really interested in doing things right restored the relationship. Another lodge had 0 interest in dancing. Current lodge has members of a local drum in it, and we have a very,very good relationship.

Eng, There are two routes to take. 1) is using historical tribes in your area. 2) is using the STATE RECOGNIZED (caps for emphasis)tribes. Now why are some tribes not recognized by the Feds? Why for a variety of reasons. One reason is the Feds don't like admitting mistakes. That's the biggest problem the Houma of LA are facing. You see the Indian Agent appointed by T. Jefferson after the LA Purchase basically said the Houma were almost extinct because He wanted their land. Most of them moved into the swamps to get away from the Anglos, and were not hear for a while. Other problems they face are 2) being considered a subtribe of the Choctaw in French and Spanish colonial records and 3) Assimilation into French culture. Houma lost their language, using French instead. In fact Houma history book I have is written in....French and English. Assimilation is a big factor with other tribes. Also politics play a part. Eastern Band of the Cherokee are blocking the Lumbee from being recognized by BIA. You see the Lumbee are on the I-95 corridor, and if they get federal recognition via the normal process (for whatever reason they have been recognized by one Federal agency as Native Americans, but not by the BIA and thus get no funds or treaty rights)so they cannot open up a casino. Cherokee fear that if the Lumbee get recognized, the Lumbee will open up a casino and it will hurt the Cherokee's casino.

Short's post reminded me of something. Now this is based upon some research of mine, so if others can point me in the right direction, please tell me and THANK YOU IN ADVANCE for doign so. In regards to "feathers and dancing," grant you the appeal to Native American cultures and the OA goes all the way back to Treasure Island and 1915, One of the reasons why the "feathers and dancing" aspects came about is because up until the 1930s, the majority of Native Americans were NOT US citizens, and their religious and social practices were forbidden by federal laws. One of the ways of preserving as best as possible their traditions was teaching outsiders, whether they be anthropologists, linguists, and other scholars, or youth groups interested in learning like the OA. You see the OA has helped in preserving the cultures. I know in one instance, Arrowmen became so interested in Native American cultures, that they helped preserve them, and even reintroduce some aspects of traditional arts. Heck some Arrowman have even helped do research and promoted federal recognition of some nations. Now is every lodge doing things correctly, no. My old lodge, one that had a very good relationship with the local nation, had a bunch of yahoos deciding to do things their own way and made stuff up. Long story short, the dance team was disbanded at the Houmas' request. It took a few years to get it restarted. One of the great things abotu the OA is that it has something for everyone. Yes cheerful service is somethign that binds all Arrowman. But if you have an interest in Native American Cultures, that is there. If you are interested in High Adventure, that is there. You're interested in collecting, that is there, if you are interested in improving yourself, that's there. And if you are just interested in hanging out with your friends after a day of cheerful service, that's there. Last note, IMHO, the reason why ceremonies are becoming blah is because the ceremonialists are not, repeat NOT, taking the time to do them properly. They are not memorizing lines, they are not rehearsing the ceremonies,, they are not being coached, etc. They are rushing through the ceremonies.

Well my chapter actually went "old school" at one time with ceremonies: they used robes like in the original OA ceremonies. One of the chapter, and later lodge, chiefs came back from OA Trail Crew and was inspired by what they did for their ceremony at Philmont. And since one of OATC's founder's is active in the lodge still and helped do the research for Philmont's ceremony teams, we had it 100% authentic: Black robes with lodge totems and specific insignia on the principles. Had several challenges though. Some folks thought we were trying to imitate the KKK, and other thought we were trying to be Satanic. As you can imagine it casued some problems. BUT if you look at OA history, robes were originally worn at the ceremonies. Me personally I like the "feathers and dancing," but I'm also dance Straight, and sometimes Tradish.

I do not beleive an updated printed IG has come out, but I could be wrong. I know the online version is teh ODL uniform. This link has links to most of the BSA's uniforms listed: http://www.scoutstuff.org/retail/docs/uniform-inspection-sheets They do not have Sea Scout uniforms listed though.

In regards to districts and councils not responding to the needs and wants of their volunteers, yes it happens. I've been in a council like that, and the volunteers dealt with it by essentially thumbing their nose at council, and focused on their units. They used council only for the essentials: to camp at the local camp, advancement, and paperwork. But other than that, they did things on their own. Good news is that the district survived some really bad times. Bad news is that the "we do it alone" mentality still exists, and the council has had 180 degree turn around with the current SE. It can be challenging at times. I guess my point for this post and the previous post is this: do what you can for the folks you are responsible for. If you can help out onthe district level, great. If you can help out on the council level, great. But do not forget that the scouts in your unit are the #1 priority. Now sometimes the needs of the district and your unit do overlap. CSDC is the best example I can think of. But if you are doing something that has little to no impact on your scouts at the higher levels, it's time to reconsider. Also if you keep offering to help, and are being denied and/or ignored, just relax for a bit. I've found that when folks know you are good at somethign that needs to be done, they know where to find you.

To all the negative commentators I say this: HORSE HOCKEY AN INDIVIDUAL CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE! Gotta remember that the district and council are there to support the units, not the other way around. And what is more important: making a difference on the district/council level or on the unit level? To Base I say focus on the scouts in your units. let's face it how many scouts know who is on the district or council committee? But they know their DLs, CMs, ASMs, SM, ad nauseum. And when it comes times to people making an impact, YOU are doing it. To Stosh I say this: Yes your unit treated you crappy. Dust yourself off and help those who want your help. I'm willing to bet there is a unit that needs a UC with your experience to help get them going. Let me tell you about a unit leader who later served at district/council level. He was a crusty old retired Marine who served as an SM for I don't remember how many years. It was over 30 though. He moved on to the religious awards committee on the council level, and also served on summer camp staff for over 20 years as the First Year Camper Director. Pretty much every single first year camper for over 20 had to go through "Sarge." He made an impact on hundreds, if not thousands, of people's lives. When he passed away, people traveled from all over the country to pay their last respects. It was not only standing room only at the church where his funeral services were held, but they had folks outside as well. he made that much impact. One person CAN make a difference.

Base, Call the WB21C SM or CD, whatever the heck they are calling it NOW, and get those blasted beads. You worked too hard to be fooled around with, and part of me fells like the are messing with you. This shouldn't be the case.

Base, In regards to Eagles on district, it depends. I know I stayed on the district level so as to not show any favoritism to units since I was the DE once upon a time, and knew almost everyone. Unfortunately I am still on b/c I do see needs on the district level, i.e. CSDC, and training. But we also have had Eagles who no longer serve on the unit level. Usually they are the ones who served as unit leaders and have stepped down to recharge their batteries.

Chai, Gotta remember the founder's bar is only about 1-2 years old, coming out in 2009 or 2010. Not too many people know about it, even those who do qualify.

ENG, Check out a new copy of the various handbooks, as your son may have torn it out. Each handbook has an age appropriate discussion booklet that parents are suppose to review with their kids. It's designed to come out of the HB. Also BSA does have a video entitled A TIME TO TELL. It's old now, but effective.

Of course that statement violates at least two very obvious "Success Formulas for the 21st Century" taboos Not necessarily. When I was up in Canada, it was my fellow scouts in my patrol that reconized that I had hypothermia and treated me. Although I may have stated in the past that the adutls didn't do anything, thinking long and hard, I beleive they were watching to make sure I was being treated OK. On a different note, I admit I was being typical CS leader. I was visiting a troop in prep for IOLS. One of the Scouts cut themself, and I automatically, without thinking, pulled out my first aid and proceded to treat. Similar situation when I saw a scout trying to do a square lashing. I pointed out what was wrong, and proceeded to show him how to do a Japanese Square on one side, and then let him tie the other side. Now I did go over to the SM and beg for mercy b/c I interfered with his troop. He just laughed and said the SPL better not catch me doing that.