Eagle92

The College Scouter Reserve has been around for a long time, just not used and was a district/council position. code was 92

My wife loves me, she embroidered over the letters before I even wore the shirt since i kept hearing that they fall off. Yes bring them back as they are guaranteed for life. EDITED: Looked online , get the microfiber version, i guess it's the Centennial Shirt, Gen II. It doesn't have the smokes pocket, and the Boy Scouts of America is embroidered on. AND IT"S THE SAME PRICE as the Centennial Gen I shirts.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Oh yes been there, done that, and have had some fun! Best thing is the friendships that are made. About 11 years after one such camp out, I ran into one of my friends working summer camp as the camp chaplain.

Beav, I understand where you are coming from. AM, I do not think anyone on the District Committee but the new DAC knew they were back on the EBORs. I sure didn't. As for the folks who are back on, it was kept relatively quiet, i.e. "Thank you for serving on the EBORs, but we really need you to serve as commissioners to help keep Scouting strong." or words to that effect. They are long term scouters who do have a part to play still, but just not on EBORs. All, Just got an update. The project is a go. Thanks everyone.

John, In all fairness to the pros, they probably did not know that the folks currently on the EBOR are back. They had been taken off the district's EBOR once before by a DAC with the concurrance of the pros. Problem is we have a new DAC now and there was no DE in place to help him select the EBOR folks. I have a strong suspicion that A) the new DAC used folks he knew were on the EBORs for years and B) he didn't know why the folks were taken off the EBORs.

Ok I know the price list is causing me some sticker shock, and I know what to expect Here are somethings 1'd do and you milage will vary. 1)Emphasize how important good gear is and how if taken care of, it will last. If you have personal examples of this, use them. I know I have had the same used backpack for 24 years. Not that light since it is an ALICE with USGI frame, but lighter frames are on the market for it. But they can cost as much or even more than a used ALICE off of ebay. Ditto on a 24yo sleeping bag and 15yo sleeping bags. While the zipper is messed up on the 20yo bag, safety pins help and is used by youngest. Also tell them that they do need to invest a little time researching the packs, and sometimes money does need to be invested. My first pack, a K Mart special, broke on its first major trip, a week long backpacking trip. While I used it a few times prior to the trip, campouts, summer cmap, etc. It lasted 3 days. 2) Talk about resources to get the gear cheap, i.e. other scouts who have outgrown packs, ebay, surplus stores, etc. I'd also talk to some local stores to see if they would give a bulk discount. When I was going to Canada, two packs were recommended for the trip: ALICE packs and a European military pack. You had your choice of ALICEs too, used or brand new. The troop leadership worked out a deal with local surplus store, we met at the store for a meeting after normal store hours, and bought them that night with a very nice discount, I think it was his actual cost + a few dollars for the packs. Saved a lot of money buying my pack. 3) May want to team up the new scouts with older ones who can carry more of the group gear. Not only due to weight considerations, but also if the new scouts show up with cheap packs. Good luck.

Click, Click, He never did the second project because it was not approved. Between the time he was asked to stop working on the first project and EBOR meeting was approx. 3 weeks. In that time he went from wanting to quit to coming up with another project, securing all permissions except the EBOR's and coming up with a timetable over the holidays and over a few weekends before 18th birthday to finish. A week to two weeks was spent with bickering, also the council office was closed for a protion of that time, and the council was notified shortly thereafter. Talking to one of the unit's leaders last nite at Cub Scouts, I was told that theyare waiting to hear back from council as it has been about 2-3 weeks. Lisa, One of the challenges as I see it is that our council is very decentralized. Geographically we are a very large council, it can take 3.5 hours to go from one end of the council to the other (and that is using US Highway and the Interstate which most places are not on). So a lot of responsibilities are on the district volunteers. And sometimes we don't know all the answers. Add to that this occured when we had no DE, although our new guy has headache over this by now I bet, and council was closed for the holidays, I'm willing to cut the council a little, not a lot, of slack. But I am emailing the SM for a SitRep today. As to my personal feeling on the young man. When his project failed and he initially blamed others for it, I was extremely disappointed in him. However within a few hours of some comments he made, he very publically made it know that he was completely responible for the mess and apologized to the comments. IMHO that says a lot. I've been told he also privately apologized as well. His willingness to continue forward is another positive in my book. As for his Scout Skills, I actually tried to recruit him to be an IOLS instructor this past weekend. The only problem I really have with him is that I know once August 2012 comes, he will no longer be with the troop b/c he will be in college. But that is the nature of things. I honestly believe that whatever the outcome of this mess is, he is an example of what a Scout should be.

Quaz, Fortunately my involvement so far has been talking to the Scouter, counseling the SM, listening to the "discussion" between the two parties at RT, and talking to the former EBOR member. SM and I are good friends and he was on IOLS staff this weekend and that topic came up. Hence my questions about others' expereinces. Serious concerns about the situation. However if needed I will get involved more b/c I know all the parties involved, am friends with both sides, and have been known to help negotiate difficult situations. Pack, To a degree iunderstand where you are coming from. But the problems as I see it is that A) the EBOR are not following the rules by implementing a 100 hour requirement, B) The second project could have been finished prior to turning 18, and C) Council was notified of the situation prior to him turning 18. I know sometimes life throws you curveballs, heck mine has, but somtimes you gotta stand your ground. I do think this is one of them. Especially since this scout has really grown alot since the failrue of the first project. NOW, Again this question arose form a conversation I had with the SM this weekend. He was concerned b/c no one has heard anything more from council about the situation. Also I need to amend something. I just found out that he turned 18 Wednesday of last week. So council has known for about a month. IF it had to go to national, then that could explain the long delay.

Moose, The two other Eagle Scouts di their projects on other councils. NOW, Thanks for the Heads up about page 68 as I didn't get that far into the book. SP, I had a friend who got his Eagle just before he left to join the USAF. 4 years later after he got out, he showed up at a meeting asking if he could have his ECOH. Although he knew only a handful of the scouts present, the older ones of course, EVERYONE knew who he was as he was a legend inthe troop. Fred, I agree with ya. I don't like the way it is set up, but I beleive it is council wide.

Pappa, That is it exactly. The EBOR would not approve the second project b/c it was under 100 hours. Nut, He was seeking approval to do a second project since the first one was a failure. There are two projects involved. The first one that was approved and turned out to be a mess. It got to the point the the benefitting organization said: NO MORE! and they took over all responsibility. Yes he screwed up, and screwed up royally on the first project. He accepted responibility for the screw up, publically acknowledging it was his fault the project was a failure and was actually thinking of quitting Scouting altogether over it. But a few of us old fogeys who know him mentored him, encouraged him, and told him he still had time to do a second project for his Eagle and not give up. And he came up with a second project for his Eagle since the first one was a failure. In my district the EBOR are the ones that approve the Eagle project once the benefitting organization, SM, and unit committee sign off on it. They meet once a month to do EBORs and approve projects. And they would not approve the second project because it would not be 100 hours long.

Moose, Thanks Moose. The gentlemen did know about the once a month EBOR meeting, and planed accordingly. He had about 2-3 weeks to come up with a new project, secure the permissions needed prior to the EBOR's, locate potential supply sources, etc. In fact he was prepared to start the actual project within days of approval. I would say the kid really learned his lesson, but he's an adult now . He definately learned from the expereince and he has grown by leaps and bounds since this. A few clarifications from original info presented. 1) The EBOR would not approve the project b/c it would not take 100 hours or more to complete in their opinion. Again this is against BSA policy as there are no time requirements, and that is what caused the unit leaders and others to complain about the EBOR adding requirements. The gentleman planned on completing the project over the Christmas Break when everyone is out of school and on the weekends before his birthday. Personally I think he timed the project very well if the EBOR would have approved it prior to Christmas. 2) The council was notified by the youth (at the time), his mother, unit leaders, and a few others prior to turning 18. The GTA didn't specify who could allow the time extension, so I thought a council had the authority to give the extension. If it has to go to national, that explains the delay. Some additional information: 3) The current EBOR has a history of causing problems by not following policy. There have been several appeals in the past b/c of them not following policy, and they are adamant on doing things their way apparently. At one time they were no longer part of the EBOR as a previous Advancement Chairman replaced them b/c they were not following the rules. However the current Adv Chair reinstated them when we had no DE. At the last roundtable part of the "discussion" was how they "recommend" 100 hours because parents (and why should they be involved) keep asking them how long the project should be, how SMs "must" be in attendance at the EBOR to introduce the Life Scout to the EBOR, and how "it is in the book that the unit committee should review the Life Scout before they go to the EBOR." 4)Others outside of the Scouter's unit have gotten involved, and are there are threats to get others involved. One of the former EBOR members, who moved out of district, got involved on the gentleman's side, and there is some stong animosity between the current EBOR members that he briefly replaced and the former EBOR member who is an advocate for the Scouter. That explains part of the bickering. Also the mother has mentioned to the unit leaders and former EBOR member that she wants to get the NAACP involved since she is seeing this as a case of discrimination. While I do not beleive that is the case, I think they would have rejected the project from anyone b/c they do not at least 100 hours will be involvedinvolved, unfortunately the area does have a history of discrimination. What I find intersting is one of the scouts in my old troop did the exact same project, and talking to another scouter, the project was also done by one of his friends.

Ok I reviewed the new GTA on the appeal and time extension processes. Not worried too much about the appeal as the Scouter did not complete his project so we are not at that stage yet. But I am curious to know what other folks' experiences with seeking time extensions has been. Long story short, the scouter, he's still registered, just turned 18 about a few days ago. His original project was completely messed up, he admitted it was his fault and began the process with a new project and beneficiary with about 1.5 - 2 months to go before turning 18. So there was time for him to do another project. He did the research, secured the unit and beneficiary approval, etc, Well the EBOR ate up some time since they only meet once a month. Then they denied the project because it did not have 100 hours to be a substantial project, which as we all know is against the rules. Another week or so was spent with bickering between the unit leaders and the district EBOR that culminated with a very heated discussion at RT. The council is now involved, but he turned 18 and still is in limbo with the project. More later.

'Rat, In SE LA, it doesn't get that cold so they were just fine. I still use utility trousers when I'm going to be doing stuff and do not want to risk ruining the uniform ones. But Ido think the Switchbacks, esp the Gen I types with the zippers in the lower legs, are AWESOME! (and yep that's me screaming at ya ) Wore my pair all weekend at training. Now one time I had a BSA function immediately following a JROTC one. In fact as soon as the JROTC ended, I skipped out of the reception to go to the BSA one. I ended up wearing my green poly-wool trousers to the BSA ceremony. Looked pretty spiff with BSA shirt, belt with Skill Awards, and JROTC pants and patent leather shoes John, Yep you shouldn't, but some folks cannot afford the complete uniform right away. I think it took me 3-4 years before I had a complete uniform, and then it was hand-me-downs. I had to buy the uniform piecemeal, and when I finally had a complete uniform, I had a lot of pride in it. In fact I never had a brand new uniform until I worked for supply. Also the Made To Order Uniforms require you to buy 2 pairs of each item to be made, and the price is much higher than the off the shelf uniform. I don't remember the exact cost, but the uniforms I had to order for one customer cost him between $150-$200 for both uniforms,about $25-$50 more per uniform item than off the shelf ones. And it can take between 6-8 weeks to receive them. Me personally I would not buy an alternative pair of pants more than the cost of the official ones.

CNYS, If memory serves, you have to contact Keith Christopher's secretary at National to get a copy of the syllabus and PPT slides. Unless they changed it since late 2010/early 2011, I have it at home digitally and can email it to ya. PM me if you want it. E92

I believe I read somewhere that it combines the colors of Scouting at the time Blue an Gold for Cubs, Green for Scouts, and Red for Explorers.

Abel pretty much describes LFL to a "T." It started from a program called In School Scouting and became a subsidiary of the BSA b/c it was originally dealing with schools, and using the teachers as leaders. There is an entire K-12 curriculum if memory serves for character development. Exploring split in 1998 with the career oriented posts, usually chartered by companies and government agencies, remaining as Explorer Posts, but now under Learning For Life, with the "traditional scouting" posts and Sea Scout Ships, usually chartered by churches and civic groups, becoming Venturing.

Growing up I had a pair of OD BDU trousers for awhile.

LOWES IS YOUR FRIEND! You will be surprised at what you can do with closet rods. I've also seen bamboo used, although you may need to learn some additional lashings. Regular square i snot as good as a Japanese Square on bamboo, for whatever reason.

JoeBob, RIGHT ON!!!! ROTFLMAO Sailing, 110% with ya on the Sea Scout one. Base, With the abundance of reality TV shows, Why not. Some of the things I've done are a heck of a lot better than some of the shows out there. Although I admit MANTRACKER is one I like as it reminds me of some of the games we played in my troop back in the day.

Agree with Fred 110% I also agree with whomever said the Scout should be responsible and not his parents. Kinda sad when a Scouter comments that parents should pay their son's way. GBB must be turning over in his grave. Joe, Agree, only 25 pizzas for 50 scouts? Base, I can see your point to a degree because I too was thinking "huh." But then I remembered how organizations will thank their volunteers by providing food while they are working, or "treat" them to a meal as a thank you. I know with UW, I have gone to a working breakfast meeting that they provided, and the hospital has a banquet every year to thank our volunteers. So a few pizzas to the guys doing a project is OK with me. But only 25

Forgot to add, looking at the the folks they are recruiting, it looks like they are setting up medical clinics and not just a physicians office. You don't have biomed, RPhs, and and a few others in a doctor's office, or even an immediate care. But you do have at ERs.

I think one of the ER docs at my hospital staffed jambo back in the day, but don't quote me on it. But I definitely know two folks on med staff, one a PA, the other I think is a RNP, but he may have been a PA too. both are top quality and would trust my life with. heck the ER DID have my life in his hands a few months back. On a different note, at first I was happy to see medical information technologist as sometimes that is what med librarians are called. But I think they mean coders though. Oh well.

Yes I googled him, but I also was in a council he was a SE for. Don't get me started.

I second Scoutnut's comments. My troop did the same thing, everything was divided among the patrols, and everything was numbered and assigned to a patrol. So if tent 12 is the Ravens tent, and it gets put away wet and develops mold, the Ravens are responsible for it. They are the ones who have to buy a new one. If something gets damaged the patrol is responsible for it. Something left behind, ditto. Now there were two exceptions to the policy above. One was when the CO used the brand new fiberglass shed we had gotten a few weeks earlier as a dartboard. So new tents and lanterns were not the patrols' responsiblities. Second was when the adult treasurer decided on his own to not buy the tents the QM wanted, but instead some tents on sale that were "pop ups," the poles all folded in on themselves. Let's just say that they break easily, are no replacement parts available to fix them, they are heavy, and take more space. Should have realized that there was a reason they were on sale for $50/tent. FORGOT TO ADD, the troop also had some older, canvas Baker tents with no floor and mosquito netting when I first joined (they got damaged with the dartboard incident above). If the patrol screwed up a tent, or someone broke one of the rules that the troop had in regards to the tents, you got to use one of those instead. Never saw anyone in one of those tents at all while we had them, except at summer camp when we were all in them.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

I do hope that you will apply for staff. As mentioned lots of opportunties, and they are even offering a program for folks to work only 1/2 the time. On another note, I do think that no matter if you are able to go or not, your son needs to go. As mentioned previously, part of scouting is growing up and taking responsibility for yourself. I know this is going against the current cultural trends where society consider 25yos, and in some states 32yos, as children still. But this is a problem your son will need to deal with on his own someday. One of the benefits of scouting is that there are folks who know what to do in an emergency. Especially at Jambo where you got MDs, DOs, PAs, RNPs, RNs, and LPNs on call 24/7. Good luck.