Eagle92

usually yes it is a sign, BUT remember that they were goign to do away completley with the red ones. Now they make them in washable wool. What BSA has started doignis coming up with sales periodically,a dn I think this is it.

SMART ALACK ALERT: Does anybody even know how many times it has been updated, changed, modified, changed again in the last 20 years? major changes in 2011, 2006, 2001. 1996, 1991 Update on compression only 2008 or thereabouts. SMART ALACK ALERT OVER Seriously I also do not like the current approach to doing FA: basically watching a video with little hands on. Sorry I think it needs more hands on, and I say that my FA MB class from summer camp way back when is STILL the best class b/c we had a lot of hands on in realistic outdoor situations. Now AHA's watching a video and then doing it with the video is OK, But I can go to sleep since I've seen it so many times.

Short, I too thought it was bizarre. If memory serves, they needed permission to use the cover art in the article. for whatever reason, illustrated children't books have 2 copyrights: one for the author and one for the illustrations. Although the other half is in the other room, I AINT BRINGING THIS TOPIC UP WITH HER ANYMORE! I might get something thrown at me

Once signed off, it's a done deal. But my questions are these: What are the standards being used and Did he do the work? By what standards, I mean is it 'one and done" with no reinforcement, no using the skills, etc, or they learn it, they use it regularly, they teach it, etc. In otherworths have they mastered the skill before sign off. As for did he do the work, I'm serious. If he actually did the work, he earned the rank. Frank made a comment about authorized folks signing off, and to a degree he is correct. But I have seen one case where granddad was the SM, and daddy was an ASM. The scout earned eagle at 13 over the protest of the district EBOR, which resigned en mass when the decision was appealed to national and the scout got Eagle. It wasn't the age that they had problem with, but him actually doing the work; from their conversations with him at the EBOR, it appeared that he did not actually do the work. And to be honest, when I ran into him, I struck up a conversation on various things that he needed to do for the MBs on his sash. This was not an interrogation, but rather me trying to gain info on my new home that IF he had done the work for the MB, he would know some things about what I was talking about. Now I've known some die hards, they do every activity, get completely focused, and bust their butts. Heck I knew one that had 3 BORs in a single nite! And let me tell you MY little secret on slowing folks down: Take the emphasis off the advancement, and put it on having fun. Let him go to NYLT. Let him do a 50 miler, If he gets into the OA, encourage him to be active. LET HIM HAVE FUN. Trust me, I got Life at 13, and Eagle at 18. Why did it take me so long, when I did my project within months of getting Life and only had about 3 or 4 MBs to earn? BECAUSE I WAS HAVING FUN. SCOUTING IS OUTING!

While things may vary from lodge to lodge, the SOP is give the card and book that same weekend. The sash is given out at the ceremony. Now in my lodge, new members get a packet with their book, card, dangle and lodge info after breakfast Sunday morning. Those that leave early, for religious reasons or otherwise, have their packets given to the chapter adviser who will give it to them at the chapter meeting. But I think I still have one packet for a young man who went through the Ordeal, and was never heard from despite repeated calls and a letter.

Ladies and gentlemen, I admit I have not read the entire thing, But from the glancing I did, I believe this is the report based upon the conference I told you about. http://www.ifrc.org/PageFiles/53459/IFRC%20-International%20first%20aid%20and%20resuscitation%20guideline%202011.pdf PP43-44 are on the topic at hand. It appears that research on the topic has both positives and negatives. Me personally, in an emergency situation, I'd like to have all the tools available at my side. Tourniquets The use of tourniquets by first aid providers to control bleeding has been contro- versial, and tourniquets have fallen out of use in first aid programmes. Despite this, tourniquets are routinely and safely used for hemostasis in surgical proce- dures in operating rooms, where applied pressure and occlusion time are strictly measured and controlled, and on the battlefield when occlusion time is carefully documented. But these results cannot be extrapolated to the first aid setting. In addition, in the past few years the use of tourniquets in military environments has increased. The effectiveness, feasibility and safety of tourniquets to control bleeding by first aid providers are unknown. Tourniquets are routinely used in operating rooms under controlled conditions, and they have been effective in controlling bleeding from an extremity, but potential undesired effects include temporary or permanent injury to the underlying nerves and muscles, as well as systemic complications resulting from limb ischemia, including acidemia, hyperkalemia, arrhythmias, shock, limb loss and death. Complications are re- lated to tourniquet pressure and occlusion time. Pressure has been found to be superior to tourniquets in controlling bleeding, although tourniquets may be useful under some unique conditions (e.g., the battlefield, when rapid evacuation is required and ischemic time is carefully monitored). The method of application and the best design of tourniquets are under investigation. In the more recent military studies, including a retrospective military field case series, 110 tourniquets were applied to 91 soldiers by medical (47%) or non- medical (53%) personnel. The tourniquets controlled bleeding in most (78%) of the victims, typically within 15 minutes. Penetrating trauma was the most common mechanism of injury, and ischemic time was 83 52 minutes (range: 1 to 305 minutes). The rate of success was higher for medical staff than for non- medical personnel, and for upper limbs (94%) than for lower limbs (71%, P

In regards to the USGS topo maps, if memory serves you fill out some type of user form, that give you persmission to download and print them. 2 topo maps for $16 bucks compared to $30 if I bought them form the USGS. An aside, don't ya love the new satellite imagery on the maps.

As someone who has dealt with copyright lawyers personally, let me tell you how anal retentive and stupid some can be. A college student does book reviews as part of a college course. Paper gets submitted, without the student knowing about it, for a library association's student paper contest. She's one of the finalists, and part of the "prize" is getting her book review published in the association's journal, which goes to every library in the state. Now, the books reviewed were all positive on the books, and actually recommended that public libraries and those academic libraries that deal with children's lit should get them. IMHO, the review was essentially free advertising for the books. I don't know how much advertising rates are in library journals, but this was a freebie that went to every single library and association member. When I checked, the association had over 400 members, and I don't know how many libraries. And that doesn't include the folks who have access to it electronically. Now the student in good faith attempted to secure the copyright permission before publication. But a national emergency occurred that directly the three publishers. No response was heard from the publishers, and the association goes ahead with publishing the paper. Now 3 years after submitting permission for approval, the publishers' lawyers come calling and wanted to know if she still needed permission. When told that it was published, when two of the lawyers lawyers found out the details above, they basically said OK, no problem. However the third lawyer would not accept the situation, and hounded the student for several months. First they wanted $300 for permission, over time it went down to $100. They were reminded constantly that A) no money was exchanged for the article B) it was a student paper, etc, etc. Finally I had enough of the calls, and told the lawyer off. I asked how much does a 1.5 page spread advertisement cost because that was essentially what they got for free, and maybe I should ask the library association to charge them and advertising fee since the article was promoting the author and illustrator, and they probably had a bump in sales in the state the journal was published as a result. The last call I got from the lawyer said they were waiving the fee and not to let it happen again. I said no problem and I probably won't use the publisher again either.

May I offer a truce? I thought I posted between BLS classes, but apparently it didn't go through. I'll do some research on the topic for both sides. I know AHA has a conference every 5 years and the results were published in CIRCULATION in OCT 2010. If memory serves, those various articles are available for free via PUBMEDCENTRAL.GOV. It is also available in an international paper on the topic and I'm sorry it is escaping me even though I heard the paper's title twice today. I think it 's the International CPR and ECC...... And I'm told that ARC does the same thing for first aid. I'll start looking Sunday.

Fred, I haven't sat on many EBORs, but the ones I have never had that question asked, except at mine, and I would strongly suggest that it not be used unless they were serious with the scout not getting Eagle. That is not something to play around with. Also he was dead serious about it. He was going to vote against me getting Eagle b/c he did not sign off on the project. And others had problems with him as well. If memory serves, the SE personally got involved in the situation, something that usually doesn't happen as it is worked through the DEs.

2Cub, Actually it wasn't the entire EBOR, just the current DAC who didn't want to approve me becasue HE didn't sign off on my project. BORs need to be unanimous, so one person can hold it up. I remember the troop CC, and the former DAC who signed off on my prject smirking a bit when I told off the DAC about it being a done deal and that I wanted to know who I could appeal it to as I did the project as it was suppose to have been done. And yes I admit I didn't know about any appeals process, I was just an angry young man at that point. Glad to see that approval is in it still. Again didn't read the document.

For the legal beagles here...what are the copyright ramifications of copying and redistributing BSA literature, although "out of print"? YOU DO NOT WANT COPYRIGHT LAWYERS CHASING AFTER YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Caps for shouting 'caus it happened to the wife! ) Long story short, wife wrote a college paper that got entered into a competion, and won. She got a free ticket to a conference banquet and a nice plaque. Her paper was also published in the state library journal. Now she was responsible for securing all the copyright permissions, and she followed the rules to the letter. All three permission forms were sent to the World Trade Center prior to Sept. 11, 2001. As you can imagine, she never did get permission in time for publication, but the library association went ahead and published her paper anyway. Prof said the state library would deal with it. Fast forward 3 years and 2 moves. The 3 publishers ask if she still wants permission. 2 of the publishers, when they found out that her paper was published, it was a student paper, no money was involved, and ithe journal went to every library in the state of MS, and it promoted the books, said no problem, just make sure it doesn't happen again. One publisher would not let it go. I had the legal beagles making calls for several months, threatening to sue her. Eventually it got through their skulls that A) no money was given to her, B) the article was part of a non-profit library association and the journal went to every single library in the state, and C) it was essentially free advertising for the book as she was promoting it as a good example of children's lit. Then they relented. As to what is published. Correct me if I'm wrong, but once something is published in a PDF format available to the public for free online by the organization, it's open season as long as no money is involved. Check out NCSBSA.org for some BSA literature

I admit I have not read the new service project workbook. But if they have taken out the district level pre approval, then I do have some MAJOR concerns based upon expereince. As I saw it, the district pre-approval was to insure that the proposed project would meet requirements. It was a chance for the scout to discuss the project and receive positive feedback on the proposal so that when he went in front of the EBOR, there would be no surprises in regards to the project. And trust me, I DID have a surprise at my EBOR in regards to my project. I followed all the procedures, i.e. wrote up the proposal, got all the approvals, executed the project as was written, etc as a 14yo Life Scout. Four years later when I come back into the room after the EBOR discussed me amongst themselves, I received the shock of my life: the DAC asked what if they told me I didn't earn Eagle because of my project. Needless to say I was angry, and that really is too mild a word. When i asked what was the problem with the project I did, I was told that the current DAC didn't approve it and he didn't feel it met the criteria. When I explained to him in no uncertain terms that A) the project WAS approved by the then current DAC, who happened to be sitting next to him at my EBOR, B) the project WAS completed as written in the proposal, and C) if he did NOT approve my Eagle, then who would I go to to appeal to since I did meet the requirements and had earned my Eagle properly. After being asked to leave a second time, I got my Eagle. I really believe that if there is no preapproval, then a Scout may face a situation like the one I had. And since I had turned 18, there was no way possible for me to correct the project, even if I did do it wrong, whci I didn't. As you can tell, I beleive that is there is no district pre-approval to the project, it may open up a can of worms.

I admit I didn't have the current 3rd. ed. BSFB as a scout, they were too expensive, but I had my hand me down 2nd ed. from my cousin. Only reason why I got the 4th ed. BSFB is b/c I was at a library sale and they were selling it for $4 and it was like new, if not in fact. Heck it didn't even have library marking in it, not wear on the spine, etc. In regards to how scouts are going to learn outdoor skills, I think it is important that the older scouts teach the younger scouts those skills, and the experienced adults not only insure that the older scouts are doing it, but also work with new leaders on the skills, even after goign through IOLS.

Forgot to mention that Sis-in-law's armour looks so good, you could not tell it was foam until you touched it. Haldir from the LOTR movies was ticked off at her b/c his armour in the movie was 50+ pounds, and you could not even sit in it. Her armour was abotu 5 pounds max, and not only could she sit, she could lay down in it.

You'll laff, but In addition to my older BSA materials, I also lookad at books in the library. There are some very good ones in my library's collection. Yes some are "tech junkies, but others give a good foundation. Also this troop's website is awesome, and I admit gives KUDU's a run for the money http://www.bsatroop780.org/skills/index.html Alot of KUDU's and this troop's website was used as well.

Eamon, Yes tourniquets are back. This is what I know and have been told in regards to the entire CPR/AED and First Aid thing. I know every 5 years, American Heart Association has a big conference where they announce the latest research on CPR. The results get published, and the new methods of CPR and advance CPR come out within a year. ARC and others will use AHA's standards in teaching CPR. Now I've been told the same thing happens on the first aid side of things, except it's ARC that is responsible and everyone else follows. Also I've been told a lot of the changes are a result of emergency medicine on the battlefield.

Beav, Gotta respectfully disagree with ya. It does make you equal. Doesn't matter if you are someone who is busting butt on fundraiser or a neurosurgeon and cardiologist's son, the uniform is an equalizer. For whatever reason, I can't express it, but I've been there. My troop was a true melting pot with folks whose parents were very affluent, to folks who were barely surviving. That uniform was an equalizer and a unifier.

SP, If you gonna do something, especially with da wife and her family, you gotta go full throttle. Sis-in-law is very much into the vintage clothing as well as costuming. She's actually done classes on costuming, specifically armour and Dr. Who, and if you google children's armour making, her's is the top website, beating our own Boy's Life. So the wife got everything vintage, except for the repro city and state strips and 1 number.

Well since my comment started this, I think I'll post. I have the 2nd and 4th editions of the BSFB. Love the 2nd, as it give you the HOW TO of doing things. The 4th is a good resource fro expedition planning, but doesn't get into the basic outdoor skills. As for the BSHB, some comments. 1) Some of the first aid is now outdated, But that is b/c first aid procedures changed last year. ASIDE: has anyone noticed that some of the old FA stuff like tourniquets are back? 2)Things are missing in the personal equipment lists, i.e. cutlery, sewing kit etc. And while the 10 essentials are mentioned, they don't list them. 3) Items missing from group gear like axes and saws, lanterns, etc. 4) Doesn't mention how to sharpen an axe with a stone, and no mention of contact method 5) Not a lot of instrcution of different types of fires and uses. 6) ALOT less detail on orienteering i.e how to mark declination on maps prior to going out. 7) Pioneering project are watered down AND they show the tripod lashing incorrectly. Also no mention of splices. Ok gotta stop, getting frustrated again.

Scouts are expected to read their Boy Scout handbook, BSA advancement materials .... Scouts should be expected to read their handbooks. There is a bunch of information in it that is useful and they do need to know. BUT as we have shown in another thread, information that has been in previous editions is no longer in the BSHB, i.e. advancement information. 1 reason why the G2A came among many others. But unfortunately it's not just info on advancement. When I did a IOLS a few weeks back, I was surprised at the lack of info in it on outdoor topics. I had to creat a booklet with information on traditional scout skills that is no longer covered by teh current BSHB. I had to use older BSHBs, BSFBs, and websites to get the info needed. Upon reflection, maybe the new author of the BSHB thought William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt miswrote how much outing is in scouting, and thought it should be 2/3rds instead of 3/4ths. But all you have to do is simple 3rd grade math to figure out 6/8ths simplified is 3/4ths.

John, No disrepsect, but I also know of footbal players who were in the band as well. One was a starter. They got pulled out of the game before halftime, changed into their band uniforms, performed, then switch back into their FB uniform and played. I also know of 4 Cheerleaders who were in JROTC. For Homecoming, all for left the game a few minutes before halftime, changed into their uniforms, and did the sword arch for the Homecoming Court. Different ideas for different organizations. Now in regards to functionality of a uniform, 110% behind you on that one.

Skeptic brought up 2 uniforms: one for the outdoors and one for formal occasions. Technically this is already in place with the dress uniform aka pro uniform, and the field uniform. BUT in 1989, BSA introduced an "Activity Uniform" of khaki shorts and a colored polo shirt based upon whether you were a Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or a Boy Scout in a venture crew (now a venture patrol). Was not popular I know of only 1 person to ever wear one. Another challenge to having multiple uniforms can be seen with Sea Scouts. Officially they have three uniforms: Blues, Whites, and Working. Most ships have only one though. But for certain activities, they are REQUIRED to have a specific uniform, I beleive the Whites are the ones they use but Sailing can clarify. Sea Socut also still have some hold overs from the pre-2002 uniform changes. Some Ships still wear their "priratical outfits" from the Sea Exploring days, and some Ships refuse to do away with traditional insignia dating back to the 1920s like ship numbers and "Bugs" on their covers. What I would like to hear about is Baltimore" experiment with Underarmor alternative uniforms. As for designing a uniform, here's my 2 cents worth. Socks thick wool hiking ones Pants I personally like the Switchbacks, gen 1, with the zippers in the legs. A few enhancements would be the following A. Size them correctly B. Bigger cargo pockets C. Get rid of the mesh pockets and have full material ones. mesh rips easily and the pocket is useless. D. More belt loops E. Rip Stop Belt I like the wider web belt. Secures belt pouches better. Shirt I like the material of the CU shirt. A few things A. Either enlarge the smokes pocket or do away with it completely like the current microfiber shirts. B. Remove the pen pocket stitching which shrink the pocket. A pen opening is good enough. C. PUT BUTTONS AND BUTTONHOLES BACK ON THE SHIRT POCKETS! (caps for emphasis) I've seen Webelos wearing their ranks in the plastic holder on the RIGHT pocket b/c there is no button on the left one. ALSO I've seen folks loose patches b/c the button does not secure the patch. (don't get me started on the plastic CS rank holders, I dont' like them, but I'm in the miority.) D. simplify the number of patches on the shirt. I know I may get some grief on this one, esp. since I came from a unit that basically said, if you earned it and it goes on the uniform, wear it. But i have way too much stuff on one of my uniform shirts, and I don't have everything on it. Now some of my shirts I can't do much about it; the shirts are sold old and patches have beent here so long that if I try to take them off, it will be noticable b/c of the different shade of khaki. But maybe the Sea Scouts are right on their uniform regs thatr simplify it ( except for the bugs and ship numbers). The uniform needs to be field oriented. Heck I've worn my Switchbacks camping with the family.

Beav, I believe, stress believe, that G2A does have provisions for non-committee members to sit on the BORs. But even if it didn't, if using leaders frmt he district is appropriate for an EBOR, why not others IF that is the only way to get a BOR done? I know of a unit that had some serious leader challenges and a young scout waited some time, I think 2 months, before he finally had a BOR. It was at district camporee, and folks on the Dis. Committee sat on the BOR. One of the best BORs I ever sat on

OGE, The CO that dropped their CS pack, and prevented a troop from starting up, was a private Christian school that had a whole range of groups and activities. Long story short, when it was annouced that the Dale case was going to SCOTUS, just after their recharter, I was told by the CM that they were not going to recharter next year. When I had a meeting with the IH, going over everything about BSA policy for units selecting leaders, etc. I was told in no uncertain terms that the Board of Directors wants the pack dropped because they will not only not accept homosexuals as leaders, but do not want to have anything to do with an organization that would allow homosexuals in it that would have indirect contact with their youth. Pack found another CO, but later folded.