Eagle92

Depending upon what the email is about and to whom I do add stuff. Stuff sent to folks I work with on a regular basis, ie pack folks, district folks, etc. no mention of things. But if I send something out as RT commissioner to a bunch of folks I don't know, or a list of folks with a mix of people I know and don't know, then I usually put on the title that corresponds. I'd don't put everything in it. OGE, In my neck of the woods, the PTB want the credentials after your name that are relevent to your job. So ID badge, business cards, email, etc have the "MLS" after it.

Sitting in you camp chair, drinking your coffee, eating your cobbler, I like peach thank you, and saying everytime a scout comes up and asks you a question, " Have you asked your PL?" If the PL comes up and asks, your reply is, "Have you asked your SPL?" Now if the SPL comes up and asks, then you got a bit of work to do Seriously, relax, step back a bit, and enjoy yuorself. Learn the troop's culture, and have fun. Be there when the Scouts REALLY need you, i.e. emergency situations, but otherwise let them do things themselves. IMHO, the transition from CM to ASM will be a very hard one b/c you are trained to do things for the Cub Scouts, and with Boy Scouts you need to let them do things on their own, which goes against all the CS training. Good Luck.

OUTSTANDING!

Kudu, Gotta remember I use the Patrol Method as part of the Citizenship in the Community and Nation MBs. I've been very fortunate growing up. With the exception of one trip, the adults were old school and let the youth run things. And that one trip was a family trip and the momma's ruined it b/c they didn't want the Cubs with us upset b/c they couldn't do the hike inthe cold rain like the Boy Scouts. But that's a different story for a different thread We've had bad elections in my troop. One SPL got elected, showed up for a meeting or two, and then never appeared again. really emphasised that you need to know who you are voting for.

Ok I'm not military, But a few comments. 1) It's my understanding that none of the military services will take HS dropouts. You got to have a diploma or GED. 2) I've known Eagles who have gone in after HS, and in one case as a incoming senior in HS and a Life Scout on delayed entry program, in order to get the GI Bill benefits in order to attend college. 3) The ones I've known HAVE been put in leadership positions based upon their rank and rating. It may not have been more than 4 people, aka a fireteam leader, but it is a leadership role. At least 1 was a squad leader at basic. 4) If you look at some of the WWII stats, you will see Eagles and Quartermasters (Sea Scouting's highest rank) serving in NCO positions. EDITED: ED and I cross posted. He is correct, and not just in the D-Day Invasion.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Kudu, Thanks for the clarification. I'll be honest, I do like the fact that the members of the troop elect the SPL. It reminds me more of our democratic republic format, i.e. the PLC= Congress and the SPL=President. It's just that the SPL also presides over the PLC. IMHO, it reinforces the concept that you must elect good leaders. The orignal SPL selection of GBB's, i.e. PLs elect the SPL, reminds me more of a parlimentary system. But again that's just me.

I know they make a lapel pin as well. It may very well be it, and not lsited as such. I hate to say it, but national supply does employ folks with little to no background on Scouting. True story as an example. I was part of a pilot program for national to run trading posts at summer camp. My boss had limited expereince in scouting, and had no idea how summer camps operate, schedule, etc. I was told I had carte blanche to create a shop: I could create schedules, inventory, shop design, etc. Only thing I had in the form of limitors I was told were national SOPs and health regs. Well I come up with all that and submit it to the boss. Every single thing I wrote I had to defend and explain why. Boss started asking my coworkers abotu summer camp b/c their sons were in scouting, and the asnwer I love best was, "How the [heck] would I know, I've never been to summer camp with my son. [Eagle92] is the summer camp guy, ask him." So the first summer was very intersting with lots of wasted time, space taken up with merchandise that didn't sell, and shortages of supplies I knew we needed. Luckily the second year was better, but I also had computerized reports to back up everything I said from the previous year. Boss still had no idea what summer camp was like, until they got selected to work Jambo.

Base, The conflicting age requirements come form a variety of official sources. SOURCES not listing an age for completing 5th grade 1) BSHB 2) http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/joining.aspx Sources listing 10 and completed 5th. 1) http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-406a.pdf'>http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-406a.pdf adult application 2) http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts.aspx Info page on Boy Scouts 3) http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-406a.pdf This is apparently a working copy of the youth application from June 2011.

BSA merchandise has a lifetime guarentee. bring it back.

BSA nationally will NOT sell anything that can be construed as "candy." GSUSA threatened a lawsuit in the 1990s when the BSA was trying to come out with an energy bar, because it was to similar to candy.

Jrush, Not saying that at all. I'm responding to Moose's assertion on separation of church and state, which A) is not in the Constitution in those words at all and B) did not overrule individual states that DID have state religions; it only forbade the federal governement via Congress from establishing one. And you are correct, religious leaders DO have an obligation to be involved in the social issues of their congregants, and if need be the politics as well. Again responding to Moose. Moose, i saw where you have question on the new healthcare law. To be honest NOBODY KNOWS HOW IT WILL AFFECT US, including the experts. True story, when we had the annual CEO's talks about the state of the hospital when the law was just passed, the question of how it would affect us was asked. The CEO, whose job is to knwo these things, as well as the legal team, had no clue because it was so huge, and had so much of the technical details left up to the secretary of Health and Human Services to decide that NO ONE had any idea how the law would work. It's a year or two later and the details are coming out. One of the bigwigs was a big supporter of health care reform as it was coming out. But now that they had a chance to get the details from HHS, they have done a 180 are completely opposed to it.

Well the homeschooling comment really hit home this afternoon. As you know I home school, and I got the test schools today. Son is in 3rd grade, but overall reading is at the 4 grade,1 month mark, math has him in the 5 grade month and overall score of 4 grade, 7 months, or Age 10 years 2 months. So while I bet we could get away with him skipping a grade, it ain't gonna happen.

IMHO, while not perfect, the BSA's record is very good. I've known people to get lose their membership just on the accusation of a youth. Also knew someone who, while there was enough to remove their membership, not enough to have him arrested. BSA takes things VERY seriously.

What else is new in regards to official sources contradicting each other. If it helps, P17 of the current BSHB states the following: Joining Requirements ___Meet the Age requirements. (in smaller print below) Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed fifth grade (emphasis mine) or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10years of age, but is not yet 18 years old. So a 7 year old who has completed 5th grade meets age requirements according to the BSHB and national website.

John, I'm not as much of a Scouting Historian as KUDU and others are, so folks if i make a mistake please tell me, but it's my understanding that GBB is the one that came up with the Term SPL based upon his Scouting experiences in Denmark. When he talked to BP about the concept and other things, BP heartily approved. I believe their friendship started in the 1920s after oen of the WSJs that GBB was a leader and journalist for. So you won't find the term Senior Patrol Leader in BP's early writings, and you won't find Green Bar Bill dissing the SPL concept.

And be advised that the US Constitution has that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;... because several states at the time of ratification DID have state religions, with state revenues supporting the state church. Over time those laws went away because the PEOPLE, not the courts, VOTED to do away with the state religion. I believe 1825 was the last year such a law was on the books. Also if churches are not suppose to get into societal issues, and yes, politics, shouldn't someone tell both the Democratic and Republican Parties? I know the Democrats have used various churches for fundraisers, voter registration, politcal rallies, etc. Ditto with some Republicans.

Here's my input on the entire BP issue. BP is the FOUNDATION of Scouting. If we forget the important parts of BP's vision, we are in serious trouble like we were in the 1970s. Boys still want adventure and the outdoors, and IMHO Scouting better prepares them for adulthood than any other program that I know about because we give them responsiblities, we do "train them, Trust them, let them lead." ( Ok that's not a BP quote, but it's relevent) AND BP WAS THE ONE TO START THAT! IMHO, Green Bar Bill perfected BP's vision, with both his and Lady B-P's blessing. If we forget Green Bar Bill's legacy, and unfortunately it seems as if National is trying to do just that, then we are still in trouble, especially since Green Bar Bill has "Gone Home" and I do not think ANY SINGLE individual, not KUDU, not STOSH, and sure as heck not me, can do what he did in 1978-79 and save the BSA. BSA might be having the problems that Campfire and GSUSA are having if Bill had not gotten out of retirement to bring back the "Outing in Scouting." Now is everything still relevent in BP's original handbook today? No as technology, education, and society changes. The messaging is one example of society's changes ( although I have given my own legs and arms a good message a time or two and it does work). the number of "movements" is an example of increased awareness of health issues. Tents, backpacks, footwear etc would be examples to technological changes. But if you dismiss BP's foundation, and GBB's improvements, you do so to your dismay. Look at the 1970s to see that, and to a lesser degree you can see it starting today. National HAS lost the outdoor emphasis. Look at equipment lists form previous BSHBs. Look at outdoor skills sections of the previous BSHBs, and compare them to the modern one. And look at the misquotes; Outing IS NOT two-thirds of Scouting, rather "OUTING is THREE-FOURTHS of ScOUTING!" Just do the math on that one ( 6/8 simplified is 3/4, my 3rd grade son can even do that math).

Base, Theoretically yes. I'll give you a hypothetical. Say you got a Scout who completed 1st grade, is still 6yos on June 1st and would be going into 2nd grade, but instead is going into 3rd, and hence the decision is that he becomes a Bear on June 1. He will be 7yo on June 1 the following year, and hence become a Webelos 1 as he will be going into 4th grade. He will then be 8 when he becomes a Webelos II, turning 9YO in September, and when his Den moves up to Boy Scouts in the January-March Time frame, he will have to wait until June 1 to join a troop at 9yo because he have to wait until completing 5th grade. At 9 years 9 months, IF he's a fast mover, or if his unit is a 'One and Done" type, he can earn Eagle at exactly 11 years of age since it takes an absolute minimum of 15 months, or 1 year and 3 months, (30 days for Tenderfoot 10B to be done, 4 months for Star 1 & 5, 6 months for Life 1 and 5, and 6 months for Eagle 1 and 4.)

AJ, http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/05B.aspx has the reference to the AOL Pin. Saw your link and find it interesting that the IG doesn't mention the Rank Pins. Although Supply makes them, calls them rank, and restricts them. see these link http://www.scoutstuff.org/tenderfoot-rank-pin.html http://www.scoutstuff.org/boy-scout-second-class-rank-pin.html http://www.scoutstuff.org/first-class-rank-pin.html NOTE IT DOESN"T SAY IT IS RESTRICTED AT THIS LINK, but it does at another link I saw the other day, but it didn have this URL and I cannot find it now. http://www.scoutstuff.org/star-scout-rank-pin.html http://www.scoutstuff.org/life-rank-pin.html AND Now it looks like they make an Eagle Rank Pin http://www.scoutstuff.org/pin-rank-es.html They didn't have this up the other day, and notice that it is NOT restricted at this time,or at least on the website. Probably an error. Deacon, When the policy changed to allow all scouts to wear the First Class Rank Pin irregardless of their actual rank, national supply got a memo on it to all supply employees ( but it didn't say anything about removing the restriction OR that the folks did NOT have to have paperwork; we had folks fill it out still), it was published in the various sales catalogs (this was when they actually showed correct uniforms and placement unlike today's), and it was in the IG if memory serves. I remember the memo b/c I was one of the folks questioning having them wear the rank pin, but still keeping the restriction.

Sarcasm on My favorite misplaced patch placement is all the Webelos in their Centennial Uniforms wearing the plastic CS diamond rank holder on their right pockets b/c there it no botton on the left pocket for the plastic diamond to be worn. Say about 90% of the Webelos in uniform like that at district PWD. SARCASM OFF (and the bold is for emphasis) Seriously though, uniform inspections are a traditional role for the UCs to do. BUT INHO there needs to be some things in place prior to doing them. 1) UCs need to do their other responsibilies, i.e visiting the units and establishing good working relationships before doing something that can be seen in a very negative light. 2)Uniform inspections need to take into account the unit they are inspecting. I know I'm a "Uniform Policeman" and have been told online that I go overboard, or as one individual said down right wrong, overbearing, and intimidating. BUT when I have done uniform inspections AT THE UNIT SETTING, I take into account the socio-economic mix of the youth, newness of the unit and it's leaders, and a variety of other factors. 3) ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS FIND SOMETHING TO PRAISE THE SCOUT ABOUT IN PUBLIC, ESPECIALLY CUBS, ABOUT THEIR UNIFORM! Whether it's the the Tiger wearing the vintage 1980s Tiger T-shirt, which IS still an offical uniform BTW, or the scout with just a shirt and necker. YOU MUST BE POSITIVE. If you see something incorrect and easily fixable, courteously ask if it would be OK to fix it for them and tell them about it. If something is not easily fixable, make a COURTEOUS AND FRIENDLY Comment about how the scout can get it fixed later. AGAIN BE POSITIVE, FRIENDLY COURTEOUS, AND PRAISE THE SCOUT, ESPECIALLY CUB SCOUTS ( all caps and bold are for emphasis, not shouting. Now I admit I have stirred up a bit of discussion on another website when I did a uniform inspection and was very strict about it, following the Inspection Sheet and Insignia Guide to the letter. It was a district camporee event organized by the commissioner corps, and I was asked to do it since A) I was impartial with no connections to any troop, and B) they found out I worked in supply part time prior to being a DE. I was told to be that strict b/c in the past the uniform inspection tended to be the tie breaker in the awards process. BUT I was courteous and friendly, telling folks what I saw wrong with their uniforms prior to the actually inspection, and giving them the opportunity to fix any problems prior to it. When issues arose, I was able to show both the scouts and SMs where the uniform regs were, which calmed a lot of folks down, and I didn't force anyone to make fix the uniforms if they didn't want to. We had several folks that didn't want to take the JLT and Philmont Duty to God patches out of the jambo spot on the shirt.

Although a 9 yo that completes 5th grade is eligible to become a Boy Scout, I would be concerned. I'd know when this situation arose one time, 1 SM approached would not accept the Cub Scout b/c we was not ready for Boy Scouts from the observations of the Cub Scout visiting the troop, camping with the troop and at several district events that the Cub was observed at. The ticked off parents did go to another troop that accepted him, but if memory serves they had issues with him and he eventually dropped out if memory serves.

If memory serves, they are not considered members of the BSA unless they register as the COR and/or CC of the units they charter.

I am going to quote a very wise man on this one. "TRAIN THEM, TRUST THEM, LET THEM LEAD."

GREAT SCOTT WHY DIDN"T I THINK OF THIS BEFORE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Base, Look into your state's government surplus sales. Non-profits, like your CO, and educational groups, which the BSA is one, can fill out the paperwork and get deals on all kinds of government surplus. Backpacks for as low as $30, boots as low as $15, etc.

Deacon, Nope, all youth, irregardless of their actual rank wear the First Class Rank Pin. The Universal Hat Pin is officially called the "ADULT (emphasis) Universal Hat Pin." http://www.scoutstuff.org/adult-universal-hat-pin.html. Insignia guide also staes it's for adults only. And the First Class Rank pin, as well as the Adult Universal Hat Pin, can be worn on the Expedition Hats, aka brimmed hats, and some of the older Stetsons that came out a few years back. One the local Scouts loves his official uniform Stetson.