Eagle92

My thoughts, and please don't take it as being mean. 1) get them trained in their new roles as there is a big difference between CS and BS, and the adults have the hardest time adjusting IMHO. 2) Get them an experienced leader to be a mentor to them and remind them of their new role when they start to interfere. 3) KEEP THEM AWAY FROM THE SCOUTS ECEPT IN AN EMERGENCY. 40 Find things for them to do, i.e. help the adults set up camp, do cooking, etc.

'Nut, I don't remember where I read it or if it is still the case, but I remember reading once upon a time that the Scout's official Boy Scout Handbook IS the scout's official record of advancement. When I had challenges with my records as a scout, I submitted a copy of my BSHB to the council office to clear things up. While my book was somewhere in the Gulf of Mexico by the time I did my EBOR, I had photocopies of those records, and folks signed off on them. When one of my Scouts was being told that the council still had him listed as a First Class Scout after he passed his EBOR we submitted a copy of his BSHB as well as those copies of Advancement Reports that we had, which wasn't many. Council fixed it. While the BSHB may not be required in the G2A at a BOR, the intials of the members and date of the BOR ARE (emphasis,not shouting) required as part of his records in the BSHB, so in reality the BSHB,or copies of the advancement section at a minimum, ARE required at BORs. Now what I would do is, as others suggested use it as a teaching moment. Discuss some of the horror stories who have heard about missing paperwork, and how those records he lost are important. Move to explain how in life, if you don't keep track of records, it may come back to hurt you in a big way. Outside of scouting, my transcripts from grad School the second go around were changed every single semester, and I can honestly say that after I still have no reasonable explanation as to why that kept happening despite the numerous calls and visits. BUT I can say that after being told I cannot graduate b/c my transcript said I hadn't taken a specific course yet, I had the copies of all my previous transcripts to show that I did indeed take the course, and that every single semester my transcript kept getting changed for no reason. So I was able to graduate with my 2nd masters. But I don't think the president of the university system, university chancellor, acting registrar and the other 6 or 7 people I sen my very angry email to with the massive pdf file of my records liked me though

2Cub, It is possible to do AOL in 9 months. Heck that was how ya did it back inthe day b/c Cub Scouts was 3 years instead of 5 like it is today. Man I'm old.

When we were between SEs, the registrar signed for the SE. The cards I use are stamped with his signature.

Interesting situation. Glad G2SS will allow it, but I wish it would also include a youth who is a certified lifeguard as well. If memory serves you use to have a certified lifeguard in a canoe, not an adult. Even though he can still go, I hope he does the swim test nonetheless. True story, one year I was classified as a "non-swimmer" b/c I hadn't taken a swim test that year. So I had to ride in a canoe with someone I helped train as a lifeguard the year before.

SP, You ain't joking. After being with a pack for 3 years, I still sometimes say the BS Oath and Law.

'Nut, The reason she may be staying as long as she has may be she didn't want to let you folks down. I know the reasons why I kept going on were A) I was about to get married and have a wife to support and B) The district had so much work to be done to get it up to par, and the volunteers were so good, I didn't want to let them down. But the stress did take it's toll, not only on me, but also the wife. When she gave me a choice of job or her, I picked her. So glad I did

My advice is to get them to the troop ASAP. I've seen AOL and CROSSOVER ceremonies done "piecemeal." If you make them wait you may lose them. Now a compromise may be to start having ALL of the eligble or soon to be eligible meet with the Boy Scouts. Those old enough/met requiremetns can officially join while the rest are guests using the troop activities to meet AOL and other requirements. THEN when they are eligible, do the ceremony for all. KEY THING IMHO is to get them and the parents comfortable enough, AND have enough money saved, foer them to go to summer camp. IMO, summercamp is the hook to keep folks in Scouting.

Sailing, Just remember the story of another group of Black Sheep: VMF 214

It depends. I know when I left, my FD and a coworker did double duty until they hired someone form the outside. A few years later, instead of the SDE taking over a district that was lacking a DE, and who was closer geographically, they had our DE driving back and forth until he got fed up and quit. So then the SDE had 1/3 of the council he was responsible for. Poor guy, had over 100K miles on his 9 month old car.

However, I don't think it's a good idea for a Webelos Den Leader to crossover and become an ASM. I think they need to learn a bit of detachment, otherwise it's too easy to make the New Scout Patrol into Webelos III. I agree 110% on this one as I've seen it try and happen. And I think I'm seeing it happen now with a troop that had just gotten youth run, but now has a new SM who was CM 18 months ago. And I hope that when the time comes, I remember this and can step back. BUT I admit I've interfered a few times b/c it is so easy to just do things. Luckily I cannot be an ASM in 18 months, so I'll be a MC instead. Must keep repeating to myself: 'Have you asked your PL?"

Sealed cell phones reminds me of something from the UK. Their Duke of Edinburgh program requires youth to complete a week long trek without adults present ( wish the BSA would allow us to do that but I digress). The youth are allowed to take a cell phone with them HOWEVER is it sealed in a waterproof container in such a way that the seal gets broken if they attempt to us it, and thus fail in that requirement for the award.

Mom, If it seems like I am being mean or not taking CSs leaders seriously, that is not the case at all. Just stating how things are in my neck of the woods: the Cub leaders do NOT get respect from some long term volunteers. And I think it's wrong. I am actually one of those who values the input of EVERYONE, new leader and old alike, because we all come into the movement with different ideas, have different experiences, etc. EVERYONE has a role to play I'll give you examples I've encountered. That brand new female CM going through WB21C, may have more outdoor experience than some of the male BS leaders since she's a retired Marine. That brand new TCDL may once upon a time been an OA section chief. That new pack's committee member may have been a former scout who earned the Heroism Award for saving someone's life. That new CM may have been a camp staffer for 5 years. And I can go on. Now I admit a new leader may not know all the rules and regs about things, and that's where older leaders need to help them out. I'm in that situation now with the new CSDC program director, giving my advice and ideas when asked for them. He want to do some things that I wouldn't do, BUT he thinks we can pull it off and I'm supporting him on it. Heck some things I hope and pray do get pulled off b/c they are very good ideas, I'm concerned about staffing issues for them though. For the record, in all my time in Scouting in the various positions I've been in, being a DL has been the hardest, most difficult, most draining, but also most FUN position I've been in, except the DE spot. I am SOOOO looking forward to being a TCDL again next year with middle son. My only regret is that I won't be with him through Bear as youngest becomes a Tiger when middle son completes Wolf. Now in regards to JAMBO, while I think tenure in scouting, including time as a CS ldr., should be a factor, as discussed in the other thread and as Base stated, Boy Scouts IS different than Cub Scouts, and you need a person with heavy experience in Boy Scouts, or in Venturing for council Venturing crews, to head that up. I don't think a person with a few years expereince as a BS leader, except the 18-25yo ASM spot, should get the position b/c there are people with more experience out there applying. A lot of factors do go into play picking a Jambo ASM, and to be honest even with all my expereince I don't think I'm qualified for it. In regards to WB21C, I admit I am favorable to the old course. BUT I think as more Boy Scout and Venturing leaders interact with Cub Scout leaders, the attitudes are slowly changing, just not fast enough for me. BTW that female staffer I mentioned in my first post, she was the lady Devil Dog I was telling you about.

Jeff, The uniform inspection sheets are a good resource to use to get yous son's uniform up to snuff. They can be found on the SCOUTSTUFF.ORG website. Also may I make a suggestion? Have your son sew on all the patches. He will appreciate it later, and take a greater pride in the uniform.

Mom, The red-headed step child of Scouts are the Sea Scouts, not Cub Scouts. All, I know that every council is different so situations vary, except Sea Scouts being the redheaded step child In my neck of the wood, folks tend to give more respect, prestige, etc to the Boy Scout and Venturing leaders than to the Cub Scout leaders. My district committee has only 2 CS leaders on the committee, and has had only one, for as long as I can remember. There is only 1 Cub overnite event on the district level, and that is for Webelos as a result. 90% of the discussions at that level focus on Boy Scouts and Venturers, unless it's CSDC, and I the one bringing it up. Council is just the same, I can think of only one person who is a Cub Scout leader on the council level, but there may be more. In fact there is a widespread attitude that ' Cubs don't need to camp," and this is from someone who SHOULD know better being a 4 beader and involved in the OA. At a district training workshop, I was told I was wrong about camperships being available to Cubs, until I pulled out the council campership form. The OA camperships are not available to Cubs, but the other one is. When we planned the Centennial celebration, Cub were initially left out of it. The idea and planning for Cubs was very last minute IMHO, some arrangements were not geared towards Cub packs (TPTB expected packs to camp in neat little rows of identical tents just like some BS troops using jambo specs), some vol staff were not happy with Cubs being involved (some staff refused to do anything with Cub events including help setting up), and there was some resentment of Cubs being in involved. This was in spite of Packs having more folks at the event than the Troops and Crews combined. Good news was the organizer who pushed the Cub participation did a great job; we had Boy Scouts trying to do Cub activities. All the Cubs I know had a good time and the complaint I heard was that there was too much to do I think some reasons for this attitude in my council stem from the following: 1) Historically Cubs didn't do much camping and as I discovered things change VERY slowly in my neck of the woods. let's face it, Cubs have been doing more camping for how long? District/council level family camps have been had national standard for them for how long, and we have only had them in the past 3 years in my council. 2) Most CS leaders are brand new with little to no experience in the program. That leads to A) experienced leaders not knowing them well B)Some leaders not taking them seriously and C) The new leaders are more focused on learning their jobs and doing well with the dens. 3) You do run into groups like Base has run into, i.e. if you don't have beads, lodge flap, knots, age, whatever, then you don't know what you are talking about. I ran into those situations when I became an OA chapter adviser at 21, first became a DE (I was right out of college and again "youthfulness" was a factor as I refused to tell anyone my age), and when I put on blue loops for the first time in 20+ years and I put on the lodge's new, non-honor specific border, and did some training on the council level. Now I do think that will slowly change now. Part of it is WB21C. Whatever your feelings on it, and I do have some concerns about it, by allowing CS leaders to interact with BS and Venturing leaders, this is making small inroads. Heck one of my good CS friends just served on staff, and knowing her she has made a very good impression on older leaders on staff with the attitude, and probably showed them a thing or two.

My advice is take all the training while you can as a single adult, especially if you plan a staying a spell. Once you get married and have kids, time flies

While I have not been in that exact situation, I've been in a similar one. My canoe did get separated, not only from the rest of my group but also from my buddy canoe. Due to the winds, rain, waves, and other issues, we ended up about an hour or so behind. One thing that helped was that we were told roughly where we were going prior to launch and we pushed on. BUT it would have been better to have a map of the area in each canoe to know exactly where we were and how much further. Luckily all ended well, but it could have been worse as I did get hypothermia from getting out of the canoe, and towing it on the islands along the way to the camp. We had to "island hop" b/c we couldn't handle the waves.

THANK YOU!

I'm all for the "adapt, improvise, and overcome" approach. There are more than one way to skin a cat, and if you think about it, you will get results.

If memory serves, the DFS, DSS, and DoD (I've only met one of those, can't think of his name but his nickname at PDL-1 was "THE MAN"), are part of the board de facto and have no voting rights.

Why do folks become DEs, even after very well respected mentors and friends, who said they would write you a recommendation for a job, only to say "[Heck] no, have you lost your [freaking] mind?!?!?! Jesus, have mercy on his soul. Are you insane?!!?! Do you know what your getting into?!?!?!?!" when told it's for a DE position? I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself. I did it to give back to scouting. Scouting has been very good to me, and now my family. I wanted to help others take advantage of the opportunities that Scouting has given to me. I worked on the district committee as a college student, and even shadowed a DE for a few days. And I talked to friends in the profession about it. So I did have an idea of what to expect. But every council is different, heck every SE is different. And the quality of the SE affects the council. I had a lousy SE, and quit. But if I had the current SE, I probably would have hung around a lot longer.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

May I speak about the DE for a minute? In reference to DEs their jobs and their salaries, I can say that A) they work their butts off, B) There are some unrealsitic expectations at times, C)the work decription is spot on, and D) very high divorce rate b/c time spent away form families, and E) The job can be very stressful. I know a friend sat down and calculated that we made about $2.18 an hour since we don't get overtime. he said I got less since I worked summer camp. I had one friend who was a Marine recruiter, a high stress job. His wife wished he had that job again instead of being a DE as it was less stress AND he spent more time with the family as a Marine. As y'all know, my wife threatened to divorce me within 2 months of marriage b/c of the job. I had 1 coworker's wife just up and leave, 1 coworker's wife kicked him out, and another had his 3rd wife leave him b/c of the job. Anyway, that's the DE perspective.

BSA has licensed Revell and DREMEL to maske and sell official BSA PWD kits. They are official, and should be allowed to race. BUT as we discovered, some of the Dremel or Revell kits had some pre-BSA licensed stock in the kit, specifically the wheels. THAT casued some headaches at PWD this year.

Ditto what has been said. PLUS most Cubs i know at this point are chomping at the bit to be Boy Scouts. I'd get him comfortable with a troop ASAP, in order to get ready for summer camp. THAT is a big deal and he will lose out if he goes at 12, trust me on that one.

I do not know if this will help or not, but here it goes. You definately need to stick with the GSUSA program, but I do know of GS leaders buying and using BSA literature top supplement. Had a lot fo GS leaders buy HOW TO abnd PROGRAM HELPS back in the day