Eagle92

Joeys.

Talk your camp area director, program director, or camp director about it. The standard policy is you wear the loops and POR for the job you are doing at the moment. So for a troop meeting, you wouldn't wear the silver loops and camp staff POR, you'd wear the normal uniform shirt with green or red loops, unit numbers, and POR patch withn the troop. BUT, and here is where you need to talk to the folks above, some councils will allow you to wear the camp uniform, either the summer camp staff crew's uniform, or if you are wearing an employee uniform ( no unit numbers and silver loops) when you do camp promotions. Otherwise they don't want you wearing it. I'll give you some examples. Last year we had a district service project that my pack was involved with. I wore my CSDL uniform with blue loops, numbers etc. For whatever reason, I got put in charge of it after I showed up, despite having other district committee members there and me not suppose to be in charge. Since it's a 2 day event, the next day I wore my district committee shirt since I got put in charge, even though I was also there with my den. Another example, and this is where you need to talk to your summer camp boss. When I last worked at summer camp, I was part of a national pilot with Supply. So I wore gold loops. Even though I was part of the summer camp staff, and promoting summer camp was part of the job description, I could NOT wear my national shirt when doing camp promos at units. I could promote summer camp within the scout shop, and at activities the Scout Shop was invited to attend at the district/council level, i.e. district training days, council annual planning event, largescale council camping events, etc. But I had to wear another uniform if I did a camp promo at a unit ( which was funny since I was registered in a different council and my uniform had that CSP on it). That also was when I left work and drove straight to my meetings, I had my troop shirt in the car and changed shirts. If I wore the national shirt at any other time, I'd get fired. Rationale was that they didn't want it to appear as if the scout shop was endorsing something, or that I was doing something with national's authority. You council may follow the same policy.

OK I'm back. If Rain is under 21 and not a Quartermaster, I'd probably wouldn't wear the Sea Scout dungarees at summer camp simply because it sounds like he wants to wear the silver loops and camp staff POR patch, and you could not do it. For an adult, and youth who are QMs, maybe. While khakis are easy to obtain, buy a set of Dickie's and take off the Dickie's tab, the insignia may be a bit challenging to obtain. I found out why the once non-restricted Sea Scout lapel pin is now restricted: it is also used by QMs as collar pins on khakis. They will be a challenge to get as they need to be special ordered, and possibly have paperwork filled out.EDITED: Like the First Class rank pin that can be worn by all youth on hats irregardless of actual rank, the Sea Scout lapel pin ( or as it was actualy marked on the wrapper "Lapel Pin, Sea Explorer" ) can be worn by all Sea Scouts and leaders for non-uniform wear. For uniform wear, only QMs wear it, and then only with khakis, and if memory serves (please correct me if i'm wrong Sailing) on the softboards of the dress whites. And that's Why I bought one, for non-uniform wear. As for the adult insignia on the khaki uniform, you really cannot order it through council because national either dowesn't carry it, or have the wrong stuff according to the 2002 uniform changes. You need to buy through SHIPS STORES. While SHIPS STORES are AWESOME and the customer service is FANTASTIC, b/c of where they are located, some of the shipping costs are more than what I purchase at times. So I need to save up on what I need to buy and place a large order from her to make it cost effective b/c of the shipping. Otherwise the prices on the merchandise are excellent, service is excellent, knowledge of program is excellent. Jackie and her crew do an AWESOME JOB and I am 110% behind them. But since converting my district committee shirt to a commissioner shirt, only uniforms I have left with district/council level insignia are my Sea Scout uniforms, both the 2002 compliant, and my pre-2002 "Piratetical outfit" (This message has been edited by eagle92)

SQUIRRELL!

YES a sea scout uniform could be worm by someone in a non-unit role, i.e. employees, district/council/regional/national folks. More later.

ISZ, 1) WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!!!!!!!!!!! Sit back, relax, and enjoy the virtual campfire. 2) FYI, doing something for lost gear,i.e. singing, duck walks, etc, is no longer allowed in the BSA. Don't know when it was disallowed as I remember that kind of stuff being done at day camp and summer camp way back in the day. But when I was at PDL-1, we did a standard camp skit of the time, and got out butts handed to us by the national folks for doing it. Was told that the type of skit we did, as well as practices such as you describe, are not what the BSA is about and shouldn't be done. What I find funny is some of the practices the BSA doesn't want us to use, I've seen done in MS and HS athletic practices. That said, in my old troop with the shy ones, we would have an older scout or myself jump in sing it with them in a very hammy way, and usually the entire troop would get involved to lessen the nervousness and embarrassment.

When wearing a t-shirt, polo, or a jacket over the uniform, yep I agree with Dean. I especially agree with some BS leaders looking down on the CS leaders. Mahor problem in my neck of the woods IMHO.

Unless things have changed, you have three options. 1) Wear your normal unit's uniform. That can be Boy Scout, Sea Scout, or Venturing (and yes we had a guy on staff wearing dungarees one summer) 2) If your summer camp staff is also a crew, then you can wear a Venturing uniform, with the crew's number and green tab. If you are an officer in the crew, that POR patch is worn too. EDITED: You wouldn't wear the camp staff patch with this option. 3) If your camp does this, not every camp does this 'cause I've worked at camps that didn't do it and others that did, then you wear whichever uniform you want, Boy Scout or Venturing, silver loops, NO UNIT NUMBERS, and the camp staff POR patch. Reason for no numbers is b/c you are a council employee, and hence not with a unit. It sounds as if option 3 is the one for you. I know some staffers who would like to be in that situation.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Hmm let's see... CURLEWS! Then there's the rest Wolves, Bulls, and Ravens.

Anyword when a Tiger Cub device will come out for us DLs who earned the TCDL Award? And while I was thinking about which 6 knots to wear on my Sea Scout uniform, i just realized, I JUST NEED TO ADD a CS , and whenever they make them, TC devices to my existing knots! Ok sarcasm off.

Also look for hikes that have things to do. Most memorable hike for me was Capitol Trail in Baton Rouge. Starts off at LSU, and you can stop at the USS KIDD as it's on the trail.

Just from the story, I don't see a problem. But we are not getting the visual, tonal and physical clues. Also I would add "gentlemen" to SSScouts's list of words to use instead of Guys.

KD, When more than 5 knots became allowed I don't know. But I think it is still a max of 5 medals. I don't see it changing back to the 5 knot limit anytime soon for CS, BS, and Venturing leaders, or for Boy Scouts and Venturers, anytime soon since they keep adding knots. Now for Sea Scouts, there has been a limit of 6 knots since 2002. But a lot of leaders and ships still wear their pre-2002 "piratical outfits" still. Finally I believe the WB21C syllabus suggests, stress SUGGESTS, 9 knots max for staff. Luckily no word on participants (This message has been edited by Eagle92)

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I also think 10 miles is too much. 5 is good. Also check out these sites http://www.georgiatrails.com/city/atlanta http://www.georgiatrails.com/60hikes/index.html http://www.atlantamoms.com/HTML/HikingTrails.html http://www.trails.com/activity.aspx?area=13056 And may I recommend the 3rd ed. Scoutmaster handbook, volumes 1&2. It is written by William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt who saved Scoutingin the USA after the 1970s.

Technically CS dens don't have a choice, they are suppose to use the standard flags from national. That said, have fun and be creative. I am proposing using US Calvary guidons for den flags at CSDC this summer since we have a Wild West theme. Except the Tigers, we're using a lance with eagle feathers.

1) Why am I not surprised about BSA literature contradicting each other? 2) Why is an organization that is suppose to develop youth not allowing a trained lifeguard that is a youth to go with a non-swimmer, preferring instead to use an adult who may not know what to do? 3) What about the 18-20 y.o. Venturers who are trained lifeguard instructors, would they be allowed to have a non-swimmer Venturer with them, or would someone who is over 21 need to be with them?

NOW, Thanks for the link. I am curious as to why only adult lifeguards, and not any lifeguards. Must be the lawyers is all I can guess.

I hate to say it, but we don't have an annual calendar. Part of the reason is that district dates are not given to us in a manner to help out. Perfectly good example, my pack scheduled a trip the same weekend as the district Cubmobile b/c the traditional date and times changed. We got the info about a month before the event, and several packs were in similar situations. But most of the units I know will do it in the June-August Time frame when the council, and their district's, calendar is available. But again we do a 6 month calendar currently.

I admit, most of the 13 and 14 YO Eagles do quit, and miss out on a lot of fun. My cousin was like that, got Eagle at 13 and quit. I may have spent 5 years as a Life Scout, BUT OH WHAT A TRIP IT WAS!!!!!!!!!! ( and that's me shouting with joy at all the memories At the moment, I can only think of four young Eagles didn't quit Scouting. 3 were involved in the OA, one of the three was also a Venturer, and one did leave the troop when his family moved, and promptly joined a Sea Scout Ship after relocating. I take that back, there was a 5th I saw, but I think he was forced to stay b/c granddad was SM and dad was ASM.

My pack traditionally give out new neckers whenthe Cubs move up. Current Webelos get some type of camp gear equitable to the price of a necker. One thign I tried last year was having the Webelos put on the new neckers, and they loved it. I'm thinking of repeating the same thing thisyear, exept instead of paracord woggles, use wire clothesline woggles. They don't come apart as easy.

One nice thing about an extra shirt for adults: it can always be reused, barring it no longer fits. I admit I have way to many uniforms. I have two shirts with BS insignia on it that I am not touching until December 2013, and then it's to change the unit numbers and CSPs. Oh yeah and the POR patch from ASM to MC. But I have transformed my other shirts to CSDL and CS RT Commish shirts. You will get more than 1 year's use out of a second shirt, especially if you go to summer camp

Calico, Again no disrespect, but you don't know of re-enactors, excuse me living historians, who get visibly angry when you call their clothing, costumes? I worked at one place where one for my coworkers was a "tad bit ticked off" when I called her outfit a costume. And for whatever reason she hated the term re-enactor as well, wanting to be called a living historian. I also overheard an angry living historian tell one person, "this aint a ... costume, this is my uniform mister." Luckily he caught himself before saying a few choice words at the event. Also I first heard of the term" regalia used at a powwow by the Native Americans. One thing to remember, there is not a single NA culture, but multiple cultures. While Powwows are a Plains thing, it has spread and local nations have added to them, do thigns differently, etc. Things that were common where I'm from are not doen here, and vice versa. Things that you would see out west, you'll see in my neck of the woods, and vice versa. Best example I can give is I never saw a Gustowah until I moved to NC. BUT since moving to NC, I've not seen a Dog Soldier headress yet.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

A few comments. 1)While I admit I HATED the paperwork MBs as a scout (that's emphasis y'all, not screaming or ranting ), as I got older and started being an MBC for the Citizenships, I was appalled at what is not taught in the schools. So I do see a place for some, stressing SOME, p/w MBs. I think the the Citizenships could me merged as they once were, Family Life gotten rid of, and incorporate someof the requirements of Communicatiosn into other MBs. 2) I actually prefer the term "parlour Scout" to "cupcake Scout," as BP used it, but that's me. 3)IMHO, summertime is when you take advantage of the outdoors. If you are going to teach p/w mbs at a summer camp, at least do it at nite time when not much is going on. 4) Again IMHO, winter camps are ideal for p/w MBs in the indoors. But I admit I hate the cold. 5) While summer camp is a good time to work on adavancement b/c you are livign and breathign scouting fro the entire week, ADVANCEMENT SHOULD NOT BE THE SOLE PURPOSE OF GOING TO CAMP! (caps for emphasis) I see this as a real problem it seems as if more and more summer camps are turning into MB mills, or are solely focused on programs geared towards advancement. An aside: how many summer camps still provide inter troop competitions at camp? How many offer free boating, swimming shooting, climbing, etc periods? How many have a campwide campfire, beside opening and closing, or campwide games? How many provide the supplies for a troop to do either their own or multitroop crackerbarrell and fun nite? Yes it's been a long time since I worked summer camp. And from what I keep hearing this isn't happening anymore. 6) why is it that the parents who push their kids into Scouting to get Eagle have more problems than those who sit back and let the kids enjoy themselves. yes I've seen parents force and bribe their kids. Soemtimes it works, sometiems it don't. But I've aslo seen parents who will let their kids go do what they want, and while Scouting may get on the back burner, in the end it just happens. Ok off soap box

Eng, HMM interesting. I'd remind the unit of the G2SS policy of adults only with beginners. They may still think scouts who are lifeguards are still allowed to be with beginners. Me personally I rather have a beginner in a canoe with a scout who's a lifeguard, heck a Scout with Lifesaving MB who knows his stuff works for me, than an adult who isn't. IMHO, Lifesaving MB has more advanced lifesaving skills required than the current crop of lifeguard courses, including BSA Lifeguard. In fact I just looked at the requirements for both. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34435.pdf for BSA Lifeguard and http://usscouts.org/mb/mb009.asp for Lifesaving MB. they are virtually identical except Live saving MB requires 5.Show or explain the use of rowboats, canoes, and other small craft in performing rescues. 8.Explain the importance of avoiding contact with an active victim and describe lead-and-wait tactics. 9.Perform the following nonequipment rescues for a conscious practice subject 30 feet from shore. Begin in the water from a position near the subject. Speak to the subject to determine his condition and to provide instructions and encouragement. a.Provide a swim-along assist for a calm, responsive, tired swimmer moving with a weak forward stroke. b.Perform an armpit tow for a calm responsive, tired swimmer resting with a back float. c.Perform a cross-chest carry for an exhausted, passive victim who does not respond to instructions to aid himself. Now BSA lifeguard does require CPR/FA/AED certification, 2 hours of lifeguard OTJT, and a written test, whereas Lifesaving MB doesn't.

SR, No problems. I know I can rant, and I try to make it as possitive as possible and not try and sound negative. Hence the attempt at the DOCTOR impersonation and the smileys. And the topic does hit home a bit b/c my old lodge disbanded their dancers b/c they were asked to by the local Indians. They were being VERY obnoxious and disrespectful. And if you go to powwows or powwow related websites, you can hear and see anti-BSA bias. Some of it legit, some not so legit. Emb, Yep there is a very big difference between ceremony and dance gear. And I've seen one chapter use dance regalia for a ceremony and it was horrible. The bells clanked the entire time, bustles got in the way, etc. It really ruined the ceremony IMHO. BUT, if someone does both dancing and ceremonies, and takes the time to plan it properly, some items can be used for both dancing and ceremonies. Mostly the bone sets, roaches, etc. I've done that and helpd folks to do it. Tokala, I've hear that too. I've also heard Powwow best too. But when I was learning to dance, that was one thing that as ingrained in me: do not call the clothing a costume.