Eagle92

If it is a 4-1 joke, it was a good one. If not, "RUN FOR YOUR LIFE"

Lots of good advice already given. Just my thoughts. If he is a high level volunteer, he knows the rules,a nd has undergone those repeatedly, if in fact he hasn't taught the class a time or two.. Heck every leader needs YPT prior to turning in the application. This is not a good situation. Trust your instincts. I would even be willing to drive the 4 hours afterwork to check in them, among other things already suggested.

Chazz, Sorry I needed to clarify. In reading on the history of Sea Scouts, I thought I read that ADM Nimitz, CinCPAC, had a standing order I mentioned above, but upon reflection, he wouldn't have that authority. It may have been ADM. King, CNO. BUT that was only during WWII. I do know that Sea Scouts did some sub patrol duties in the Gulf. I got the pic and I want the patch. But yes currently E-3.

Yep promos are standard. If I read the article correctly, there was a standing order from Nimitz that Sea Scout Quartermaster's after boot camp became a PO3.

Ditto what BP said. My wife, who dated me while I was a DE and knew exactly what she was getting into in regards to my job duties, gave me an ultimatum after 2 months and 5 days of marriage: her or the job. Yes it is that stressful. see some of the other threads on this topic.

Nut, FYI G2A that came out last year added some additional requirements for some MBs. All Aquatic MBs must have someone over 21 supervising (ok I read that wrong originally A 19 year old Lifegurad instructor CAN teach Lifesaviong MB, they just need someone over 21 with them as well.) CPR instructors must be certified by ARC, AHA, etc, EVEN if the requirement does not state become certified in it. And the specific MBs Canoeing merit badge counselors must have either BSA Aquatics Instructor or Canoeing Instructor certification from the American Canoe Association, American Red Cross, or equivalent; OR local councils may approve individuals previously certified as such, or trained by an instructor so qualified. ( SO I now need to petition the council since I was a previously certified under BSA lifeguard back in the day, when they taught boating rescues.) Climbing. All climbing, belaying, and rappelling exercises and activities must be supervised by a qualified rock climbing instructor who is a mature and conscientious adult at least 21 years old, and who is trained in BSA Climb On Safely and understands the risks inherent to these activities. Training as BSA climbing director or instructor is highly recommended. Someone with certification in First Aid/CPR/AED from the American Red Cross (or equivalent) must be present at these activities./i> Lifesaving. Demonstrations or activities in or on the water must be supervised by an adult at least 21 years old with certification in Red Cross First Aid/CPR/AED or equivalent, and also as BSA Lifeguard or Aquatics Instructor or equivalent (So the 19 yo lifeguard instructor with 4 years experience as guard can't teach the MB, but the 22yo he just trained as a lifeguard the week before can teach it.) And the rest

Sounds like there is some history. As stated there is no policy. But I can tell you that I've found that competition can sometimes improve units that have challenges, and sometimes it's not competition as they meet on one nite and you meet on another. ( In my neck of the woods, all dens in a pack meet at the CO at the same time and day.) Don't be like my coworker who went nuts when I scheduled a round up at "his school" despite being told by our boss to do it. Long story short, one school had folks from 2 districts going to it. Man did he go ape.

Fred, I'm glad it's been positive for you. I know when the GSUSA went from several councils in NC to 3, unit service from them decreased, volunteers are not as active, and they did sell off several camps, which ticked off a lot of volunteers. Worse think it did for BSA is just prior to selling off the camps, they logged them. When it was announced that the local camp was going to be logged, those folks with expereinces with the GSUSA freaked out about the camp being sold. When that is not happening. An aside; just came back form the camp last nite. While I was initially in shock of the amount of cutting, when I started walking around I realized A) it wasn't as bad as folks said it would be and B) it actually opened up areas that were so overgrown with brush, they were not only inaccessible, but fire hazards.

I'm betting not only both, but also on a very tight timeline. Willing to bet that A) some one came up with the idea in 2009 and B) had to finish EVERYTHING by August 2009. A good book that is well researched and accurate will take several years to write, edit, and get printed. And then sometimes the info is out of date. best example I know of is a book on the Cold War that came out in 2004 or 2005. The writer did such a thorough and researched job that it took 4-5 years to do. Problem was that while it was in the printing and publishing stages, Russia opened up some of their archives, and several countries in the Warsaw Pact opened up their archives completely. A whirlwind of info came out that disproved some long held views, as well as confirmed others with detailed info. But that info was not in the textbook I was using, and I had one student questioning me as to why I was disagreeing with the book.

WOW. My thoughts. 1) Why there are theoretical savings in regards to reducing the duplication of staff, services, and unfortunately camps, it will increase in other monetary and non-monetary costs. Travel expenses will increase as you will have to drive all over the place in a $4+/gallon gas economy. Also think about morale and staff turnover: we lost a DD because he had to cover a territory that was 6 or 7 counties large for several months while we were without DEs. Long story short, the amount of time spent on the road took it's toll and he quit. Let's face it you put over 100K miles on your 10 or 11 month old car. 2) Volunteers will not be happy. With the reduction of service centers and camps, that will increase travel times to pick up awards, have meetings for events, pick up equipments, and the most important thing GO CAMPING. I see camp year round use dropping as council camp will be further away as they close. I see council events dropping in attendance as people won't drive the longer distances, esp. with $4+/gallon gas. Heck I know it will affect year round use. We have a local camp within 22 minutes. At the district event this weekend several SMs have said they will be encouraging their units to camp more at the local camp instead of driving longer distances to other camp b/c of the cost of gas. Heck a few units mentioned using the nature preserve that juts outside city limits since it is a 5-10 minute drive, and that is city driving, no highways. And then you will have those folks who will refuse to participate with anything withthe new council b/c they are upset. I admit I can see mergers happening and succeeding, but not on the area 2 scale.

A few comments. What is a council looking for varies based upon what is needed and who is hiring. Some execs want folks with specific skills and experiences, i.e. someone with heavy summer camp and outdoor skills may be hired as a DE with summer camp responsibilities or in a specific postion, i.e. campign director or program director (pros doing only those jobs and not to be confused with the summer camp seasonl CD or PD). Sometimes they want folks with experience as volunteers. esp. district level ones. One reason why I had my foot in the door was b/c I was a district committee member. And sometimes they want someone they can "mold." Sometimes ti works, sometimes it doesn't.

MBCs are district level, ADULT, scouting positions. National has placed some restrictions on who can be an MBC for specific MBs, i.e. only 21+ and holding specific certs for Lifesaving and Canoeing MB come to my mind since I am no longer considered qualified to teach those since I am not current with my certs. Usual process is to complete an adult leader application, marking district and marking MBC in the position spot AND fill out the Merit Badge Counselor Information form found here http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34405.pdf bea advised that is the most current one NATIONAL form I could find. Some councils have created there own. One recent example of a local form is here BUT doesn't list the new restrictions http://www.longspeakbsa.org/forms/MBCreg.pdf

Extensions are very rare, and you need a very good reason for the extension. In 20 years as an adult I know about 2 personally, and 1 anecdotally. 1st personal was an extension b/c of adult error with the eagle service project. I don't know how ling of an extension he got, but he completed the project about 3 weeks after 18. I wrote about that one on this thread. it was legit in my opinion. 2nd personal was for an extension b/c the scout was not attending meetings or working on advancement while he was in sports. Obviously an extension was not granted. Anecdotally, I heard of one scout who was involved in an accident and was hospitalized for several weeks. While he worked on some stuff while in the hospital, the service project was not able to be worked on and completed. My understanding was that he asked for a 2-3 month extension, the amount of time he was in the hospital and inpatient rehab, and he got it.

Cito, While I also know some commissioners who would fail uniform inspections, especially my fellow CS RT commissioners who wear all the RT doodads all the time, Just remember that some of us old bogeys have been around so long that some of the insignia are no longer included in the IG, or if the rules are in the IG the item in question predates the rule. I have a BROWNSEA strip on one of my uniforms that I haven't seen on a uniform in ages, it goes between the CSP and the vet bar if worn or unit number if no vet bar is worn ( FYI I emailed M. Walton that his info is incorrect with the documentation). Also know district scouter who has a bunch of patches on his red jac shirt. Look closely and you will find none younger then 1969 or 70 if memory serves. All patches are prior to the restriction on patches on jac shirts.

May I give you a brief history? Back in the day, all Cubs wore the blue uniform. Then in August 1984, but it was announced in June '84 in Boy's Life if memory serves, Webelos were authorised to wear the BS tan shirt with CS modifications, i.e. blue loops, Webelos blue hat, Tricolors, and US flag over the right pocket ( back when the US flag patch was separate). Now here is where it get fuzzy for me, I don't remember if I bought a new green belt or if I bought the Webelos belt buckle? Didn't matter as there were no Sports loops prior to Aug 1984, and Academics wasn't even thought of. As Base stated, the rational was that you had Cubs who wore their shirt as Wolves and Bears in 3 and 4th grade who needed new shirts. BUT Webelos was only a 1 year program at the time, so enough folks convinced the PTB to allow Webelos to wear the BS uniform Now originally all patches transferred over, there was no oval patches. Those came out after Cub Scouts beacame a 5 year program in the early 2000s. SO Bobcat, Wolf, and Bear, as well as all the arrowpoints had to be resewn. No TC rank patch until 2003 or 04 when Tiger were fully integrated into a pack and had to earn the Bobcat Badge. With the advent of Badge Bond, Badge Magic, ad nauseum, which all stain the shirt and cause problems getting the patches off and with reuse of the shirt, enough folks complained to allow Webelos the option of transferring all the patches, save the Tiger Cub Patch since the TC rank patch took the spot for the Webelos Badge, or just using the Webelos Diamond OR the Webelos oval. It's a decision up to the parents, or scouts if they are sewing, to decide.

BP is correct, you wait for national, it will be a while. He reminded me of a story my former DE told me. After his divorce, his ex moved down here,and he wanted a job a close to the kids as possible. He apparently followed the policies and didn't hear for a few months. Well the guy is a retread, i.e left the profession for a while and comes back. But he still had a lot of friends in the profession, including some in pretty high places. He starts talking to friends, and within two months he's down here.

Here's what I can think of off the top of my head. 1 Tan DL uniform 1 tan CS RT commissioner 1 tan ASM ( being stored) 1 1970s green shirt ( being stored) 1 green OA assoc adv. 1 green national (too big now, but it's stored. 1 pre-2002 Sea Scout blue white dress 'Pirateical costume" 1 Dress White uniform 1 working khaki uniform 1 professional uniform Also in my closet is what was suppose to be my wife's vintage 1950s den mom uniform. Unfortunately she changed her mind about being a leader, which in retrospect may be a very good thing. She's a definite helicopter mom. Ok I admit I'm specifically mentioning tops since with pants, socks, etc are pretty much interchangable among the tan and green shirts, and the gray pants with the green shirts. I don't know how many shorts, pants and switchbacks I have, nor socks. Well I do know I have 12 pairs of old Knee socks. OK going to put on the commissioner uniform and visit a camp. Where are those blasted knee socks at

1) Do you have any friends that are pros to advise you? I ask because not contacting councils wasn't around when I tried to be a DE UNTIL you agreed to an interview. Once you accepted an interview, THEN you had to stop calling. Be advised, if you get accepted for an interview, be prepared for the possibility of an offer, and be prepared to accept. I did 3 interviews. First one I did horrible in as I was going through a personal crisis at the time of the interview. My mind was on the crisis, and not on trying to get the job. Second one, the one I later wished I would have gotten, I was told they were going to talk to one other candidate and I would hear from them within a week. Long story short, he got the job, and I was in PDL-1 with him. He had an "in" since it was his council growing up and he had time away form folks courtesy of ROTC and US Army. Third one was the "charm" as they put me in their winter conference. Long story short, I was told if I was getting interviewed during the conference, I would be offered the job and I better accept. I did.

Stosh, With no disrespect, esp. since you know my position and how I agree with uniforming strongly, but price is a matter. And I'm an old fogey enough to make the scouts buy all, or most of their uniforms, which can take even longer. I know kids who didn't get into sports b/c they couldn't afford the fees and expenses. Heck some of those kids could barely afford scouting if it wasn't for the fundraisers. I don't think they should be ostracized. BUT I do think the goal is to get them uniformed ASAP. That might be in a year, it might be 3, as that was my case before I had official uniform pants. Now I do believe in unit closets, ebay, good wills, etc. heck I was making a little spending money buying shirts from a thrift store, cutting off the patches for my collection, and selling the shirts for a quarter profit (plus the patches), But it did take me three years to get official uniform pants, and then it was from someone in the unit who outgrew his and not from a thrift store. I know locally you cannot find scout uniforms in any thrift stores because SCOUTREACH has contacted every store and they do not get sold, but rather go to those units. Ok gotta shop ebay now to get oldest's new tan shirt for May.

As long as the youth wants. Growing up, my troop had anywhere form 2-3 mixed age patrols, with the exception, of when we tried a NSP which lasted a year and turned mixed age, and the Leadership Corps. Our troop had a tradition of "Birds of a feather, flock together" so we had bird names. Hawks, Eagle, Owls, Ravens, etc ( but no CURLEWS ). Once you were in a patrol, you were in it until A) you decided to join another patrol (every 6 months you could change patrols) B) you got voted into the Leadership Corps, or C) you got out the troop. Flags were passed down, patrol leaders tended to stay in the POR until A) they decided to not to run for re-election, B) they lost an election ( never happened in my troop but theoretically it could), C) the got elected into the Leadership Corps, or D) they quit. I know I was PL for 18 months. I had friends who were PL for 2+ years. And I had friends PL for 1 year. But overall the patrol remained. We might lose a patrol, usually the Ravens, but we always had the Eagles and the Hawks.

There are some things you just cannot forget. Ordeal being one of them, Vigil another. Now I admit I don't remember much of my Brotherhood except A) I find out I'm eligible when I show up at the Ordeal (chapter wasn't active) and B) test. No walk, and can't remember that particular night. But I remember other Brotherhood ceremonies I did.

To paraphrase a great one, it is true, from a certain point of view. Gotta love Obi-wan Kenobi.

I admit my troop was a uniform troop at meetings, special events, and travel to and from. PLs and SPL would send someone home to get a uniform on them about once every 3-4 years. But once we got to camp, off came the uniform. Troop t-shirt or other scout related t-shirt, no problem. jeans, cammies, whaterver no problem. But come Sunday morning and ready to leave back in uniform. part of that mentality of taking off the uniform was that we wanted the unifrom in the best shape possible for when we did have meetings, ceremonies etc. I know as a youth, the uniform, even a used one, was more expansive to buy when you could find one in your size, than goign to the local surplus store and buying camo pants.

'Box, I have no involvement with him, but I think he may still be in scouting. He came to my attention when I was told that the chapter he was trying to get into contacted me about having another experienced dancer to help advise the lodge dance team. Apparently he said he was a dancer too. Problem was that when I communicated with him, some of the questions I asked he didn't have a clue about. Then we found out about national having no records.

For whatever reason I just noticed this: BUT ... if the key rule document available to us says "may", then it's not really required. It's up to BSA to get the documents right. I believe that inconsistent documents goes in favor of the impacted person. So I'd give the scout the benefit of the doubt and congratulate him (not the parent) on reading the rules. You hit the nail on the head, there are two rule documents in play here, and they contradict each other. You have the Uniform Inspection Sheet, which was probably onsite and used for the inspection which states: The World Crest emblem is (emphasis mine) worn centered horizontally over the left pocket and vertically between the left shoulder seam and the top of the pocket. http://www.scoutstuff.org/media/content/docs/pdfs/34283.pdf And then the Insignia Guide here http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/06.aspx shows the WC incorrectly, but does tell you exactly wear to wear it here with teh following verbage http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/10J.aspx World Crest, cloth, No. 00143, all Scouts and leaders, centered horizontally over left pocket and vertically between left shoulder seam and top of pocket. May (emphasis mine) be worn by all members of Scouting to symbolize their membership in the World Scouting movement. Now unless you have an "anal retentive uniform policeman" as I have been called on one website who carries an IG, even an outdated one like the one online is ( the last IG came out in April 2009 and has the Cenntennial uniform info in it, the online version is 2005 or there abouts), to a uniform inspection to clarify questions, the inspector will be doing the scoring based upon the inspection sheet on hand. And the inspection sheet states the WC is needed. And I hate to say it, but even national realized the importance of the internet media. That's why the printed version of the Guide to Safe Scouting states to check the website every quarter for updates to it. That's why the training folks have monthly or quarterly training updates AND their own facebook group. A lot of folks heard about the requirement for leaders to redo basic training everytime the name changes, and then the decision to make the call at the district training chair's discretion (and which training chair is going to say "NO, you need to redo basic training" to a 20+ year scouter) on facebook before it was ever printed inthe Guide to Training. So I as much as a uniform policeman I am, I'd take Supply's current website over a printed document, especially one known to be out of date.