Eagle92

Pirate Theme Yo ho, yo ho a Cub Scouts' life for me We're Cubs, we're the best and we have the knack DRINK UP ME HEARTIES YO HO (pause for hydration) We hike and we camp and sometimes backpack DRINK UP ME HEARTIES YO HO Yo ho, yo ho a Cub Scouts' life for me Knights Theme late one nite when we were all in bed, That old dragonhad a cold up in his head and when he coughed and sneezed he winked his eye and said they'll be a hot time for the old knights tonite WATER WATER WATER (pause for hydration.)

I know at Cub Scout Day Camp, I have some "Cub Scout Day Camp Drinking Songs" where during certain parts of the song, they need to drink water/bug juice/gatorade. etc. Something I picked up.

Brew, Actually no he couldn't and I probably should have given more detail. The Webelos in question should have been in 4th grade, but was still in 3rd, and had "earned" all the awards I mentioned over the summer after finishing Bear with his parents signing off on the stuff. Parents should have known better since they were the CM and CC of the pack.

EBAY IS YOUR FRIEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've gotten uniform items for myself, both kids, and an entire vintage 1950s den mother uniform for the wife. That last one will be going back on ebay in the near future

JtE makes no mention of only current training being accepted,and while the national folks said it would only take the current training for the awards, they backed down on that when there was a very loud protest on the topic.

B, Some councils do not allow a test out, such as Moose's council. And some councils have mandatory training. And some council's records are so screwed up, that folks who have not only been trained, but have served on training staff, including PTC, are listed as 'UNTRAINED" on reports. What I am really discouraged at is that when I went to PDL-1, I was told SCOUTNET would allow all records to move along with you as you moved councils. I just found out recently that is not the case. And while I have not taken any WB course, I did take Brownsea 22 which was modeled on WB. Scout skill intensive and a lot of fun. I do not see WB reverting b/c the training folks are trying to consolidate, and make it 1 size fits most (those pesky Sea Scouts break every mold )

Look to MA as to what to expect: long waits to see a doctor and few docs practicing. And yes 20% don't have insurance, but not all of that 20% use healthcare services like the ERs. Also does not cover the illegal alien and medical care problem. I know lots of CA hospitals are having major problems because of it, and I know some stories that I still cannot believe.

Moose, Nope, not meant for a test out. It's says that as participants in the course do the skills, sign them off. So it's for the course, not testing out. And something else hit me. It can seem that because there is less emphasis on the outdoor skills in the BSHB, they are not as big a deal and therefore not important. Hence the absence of those skills in the books can be seen by some that they are nto really important, and thus "One and Done" As both Benelon and I have stated, we need to use handouts with the Basic T-2-1 skills on them that were in the BSHBs of yesterday. I discoverdin last Dec when I was trying to line up the skills taught in IOLS with the current BSHB for the participants, Discovered a heck of a lot of basic info is missing, and created a 120+ page pamhlet to supplement the BSHB. I should not have had to do that.

#1 Be yourself. #2 Try and find out as much as possible before you go and see how you fit. #3 Listen, really listen. #4 Know that this is one heck of a committeemen with lots of long hours, little pay, and sometimes angry folks chasing after ya. As a wise man told me when I told him I was applying to be a DE: (looking up to Heaven) "Jesus, have mercy on his soul. Are you crazy? Have you lost your mind? (looking up to Heaven) Jesus, have mercy on his soul." Good luck.

Your making an arguement for learning basic Scoutcraft skills which is what the First Class Emphasis program is suppose to be all about. People have gotted sidetracked into thinking it is to check a box off in a book. That isn't the purpose of the program. The purpose of the program is to educate the Scouts in the skills so they are prepared for adventures. I think we have a partial agreement on this matter. Yes the program is to teach basic scout skills so that can do their adventures with the goal that they should be ready to be on their own with in a year. Agree with you 100% But I do not think people got sidetracked on the matter. The literature I've read and remember on Operation First Class, First Class Emphasis, First Class First Year and whatever other names the concept has gone by over the years places too much, way to much, on getting scouts to FC within a year. Is it possibly, absolutely even back when there when time requirements for T-2-1. But most scouts I remember got it more into the 15-18 month range. And they knew the skills cold. The BSA literature in my opinion support the concept of "One and Done." The Guide to Advancement's language doesn help as it it beurcratese. Look at all the discussion on advancement that has gone on. Look at the various quotes from G2A that folks have used to suppor their arguments ( clasicial definition of the word) Look at all the discussion about not expecting boys to remember the stuff that was signed off on and how expecting them to know the stuff is "retesting" when it is not in the cases I have used, but application of the skill in the outdoors. And don't get me started on the IOLS syllabus. Don't have it in front of me, but somewhere in it is the recommendation to make a skills check off sheet that is signed off by the instructors "just as they would do with their scouts" or some such phrase. I'm sorry but a weekend learning these skills does not mean you have mastered the skill, and are able to do them on your own whenever you need to. It takes time. As for the BSHB, it lacks a lot of info on the basic scouting skills. How can a scout learn a skill, and go home and practice on his own unless eh took notes while learning? Yes I learned a lot being with the older scouts in my patrol, but I could use my BSHB as a guide and memory aid. Now you can't. And if that doesn't encourage One and Done, I dont' know what does. And I hate to paint a broad brush because I know otherwise, but a lot of pros only care about the 3 M's: Money, Membership, and Manpower. Yes there are pros who know that having a successful program = larger membership. But I've met and worked with pros who would not care about how a unit is operating as long as the charter and membership apps were turned in. Heck I had one boss tell me not to get involved with a unit having problems ( and there was no commish corps to speak of at the time) that was on the verge of folding. Told to deal with it next year, meaning when it was time to recharter. And when Operation First Class started, no reports on how programing affected advancement and retention, only dealt with advancement and retention.

Benelon, Curious as to how giving a scout the award after he has earned it is lying and cheating? If the BOR approves the rank, signs off in the book AND the Advancement Report ( remember those messed up records I told ya about, they had to use my BSHB to verify the dates) then the Scout is that rank and is entitled to the badge. Some real world examples. If someone get promoted at work, do they take over the new spot ASAP, or do they have to wait until all the bureaucratic stuff is done before doing the job? Most places I've worked at they start doing the job ASAP and the paperwork catches up. Heck as long as it took for my Eagle to get approved, my old council's records were majorly screwed up and it took about 1.5-2 months just to clear up those records not to mention the time to and from national, my certificate for Eagle is dated the day of my EBOR. So I do not see how giving the rank as soon as possible is lying.

"How long will it take for my son to get Eagle?" "Why would I want him involved with/doing ________ (take you pick NYLT, OA, Jamboree, etc) when it will take off track to getting Eagle?" "Why can't my son join Boy Scouts now since he earned ________ ( you pick a number up to 20) activity badges, Webelos Badge, and Arrow of Light over the summer?" Ok last one was a paraphrase, but you get the idea.

Benelon, I was about to say that they are out of stock, but the new ones are now in YEAH! And as Beavah says, there is way to much emphasis on getting Eagle and the entire advancement process. When Scouts can't build a simple fire and boil water, including scouts who went to Philmont I might add, there is a problem. The troop that the Philmont patrol came from prides itself on the average age of its Eagles, 14 or 15, and the number of Eagles they produce each year. Fine and dandy, but the scouts do not stay involved after getting Eagle. No OA members, no Venturing Crew (despite using the Venturing logo on their patrol flag)Eagle and done. And the parents do not want anything to take their sons' time away from getting eagle, so they do miss out on a lot.

Now, I understand that with the latest requirements, Scout Shops are requiring advancement reports for badges -- but -- that does not cover the rank pins! When I worked for a national shop, the Rank pins were included in the paperwork needed restriction. I know I caused some headaches b/c I worked when National started allowing any Scout to wear the First Class Rank Pin on the expedition and campaign hats. Although any scout was allowed to wear it, they needed to fill out an Advancement report. kept bugging the boss that the rules didn't make sense. RS, that's how my troop was, All awards given out at the quarterly COH, even after BSA changed the policy. Bnelon, As I stated, sometimes waiting for the paperwork to be submitted and the ranks to return is not a viable option. The Prague, Czech Republic pack I talked about in the original thread is one example. One Pack and troop that my shop served was in Indonesia. One package we sent took so long to get there several months, they bought a duplicate order, and another batch of stuff, and had a company courier to pick it up for shipment. And that is how we did it form then on. Now grant you that is extreme. But in my council, there is a long history of the USPS delaying and losing stuff sent by mail. My pack sends stuff 2 weeks in advance and sends the report via fax. And there have been times were we get it the business day before the meeting, and in one instance after the meeting we needed the award. We're fortunate in that I work in a city with a different council's office, and i can usually get stuff my council doesn't have, or we were notified after the pack deadline. But not everyone has that luxury. There are some units where the drives is 2-4 hours one way. Another thing is BSA changes policies. As mentioned, at one time Troops gave awards only at COHs. Don't know when that changed as my troop didn't do that until about 1994 so I am guessing 1989, but when the concept of giving the scout the rank as soon as he passed the BOR, I think the recommendation was within a week of the BOR. And you can read about the national suppl;y issue in the original thread

Actually it's a supply problem with national IMHO. Reason I say that is because I saw the problem when working for national, and supply division didn't have enough to ship out. Now part of that problem is that a national shuts down shipping late Dec-early Jan. for inventory. Now I know ho much of a PITB inventory was at my store, and we actually "started" inventory after Thanksgiving b/c if we followed national's time frame, it would not be done in time. Hate to see the warehouse's inventory problems. part of the problem is that there are SOP standards that dictate how many of a particular item you can have in the inventory. A store can have only so many items, and if you are under stock, the system notify you to order, and if you try to order more than you are suppose to have,, the system will tell you and prevent it. As for the T1/T2 comparison, like Beav I too see many T2s more active and successful than T1s. And as I posted in another thread, it is true that the further up you go, the less you know about what's going on in the field. One reason Why I'm glad he's and ASM and posts here time to time. Also glad national is using FB more. While it may not eb the same thing as being in the field, it is an attempt.

I admit i didn't read the entire article. But here are my observations. 1) In dealing with all the students I have dealt with over the past 2 years, only 1 parent, 1 out of over a hundred, has actually said my child screwed up she has to deal with it. Most of the time, it's parents setting up stuff, parents to call when problems arise, and parent to call and or complain when informed that I cannot help their child got XYZ reason or the child was scheduled for ABC time and we cannot reschedule b/c others are already scheduled. 2) I've listed to parents go out of their way to help their children, including college age children and older, go to school and/or work. One mother actually calls her son every morning to wake him up so that he can go to work on time, something his wife could easily do.

Bnelson, In regards to the "War Chest" advancement reports and council records, even if the records are turned in, there are sometimes challenges. I know of one Eagle who was initially denied by Eagle becasue council still had him listed as FC. What's funny is the other scouts on the form had their correct records. Ok the dates were off, but that is a different story. I know the ACAP stated that rank should be given as soon as it is earned. While some units could get it within a week, for other units it could be challenging. Aroudn my neck of the woods, it can take up to 2 weeks to get stuff, andsometimes even longer if they are out. Heck one pack I knew of would order their ranks for an entire year at one time, and the paperwork was turned in to be forwarded to their council. Don't remember if they put in one date for all, or if they estimated the dates, but the boss told me to fill the order, and ship it to Prague, Czech Republic where the pack was located. I forgot how long it took for them to get their stuff, but it was some time. And I admit it is a pet peeve due to personal expereince, but I hate not being able to give an award to a Cub who earned it and is expecting it at the pack meeting, and council is out of it. Sorry I know how that cub feels and I do not want to put another in that position.

Folks, I agree the PLC needs to set the policy and run the troop with the SM running interference. But sometimes there are extenuating circumstances like religious objections to shorts. Now with the exception of when religious awards are given out, only time I've seen any awards given out at a church service is Eagle. And the unit made it clear "No Shorts" for the service. I know when my CO has Scout Sunday services, they want pants also. Now I admit I'm not too keen on by-laws and what not. I think the Promise/Oath, and Law for your level should be all ya need.

Lots of drama. Some are saying troll, but I was in a very, very similar situation as a DE way back when. As others have mentioned, unless Youth Protection violations or some type of felony is involved, and YPT being expired is not a violation, the council cannot get involved. No matter how many folks complain, they cannot get involved. Also only the Charter Org. Rep and Institutional head can remove leaders from a unit. We had a group of leaders that was in driving folks out of one pack. We'd recruit 30-40 for them, and boom by December only the core group remained. And I was getting complaints as people left. Some did join other units, but most just quit. Troop was complaining because they were not getting any Scouts to cross over. Real bad mess. I ended up having a meeting discussing the situation with the COR and although he wanted the leaders removed, didn't want to do it. And he was one of the folks complaining as he was also listed as an ASM with the troop (don't ask, I know that's not suppose to happen).

I haven't read it all but I need to interject some. Both sides have elements that are correct, and both sides have elements that are wrong. Painting with a broad brush is wrong. Stereotypes are not the way to go. And while decisions do affect you, sometimes they are beyond your control. I know folks who lost jobs not because they lacked skills or didn't have good work ethics. Companies moved or shut down altogether. I know my grandfather lost his job after WWII ended when the owner of the company decided closing the company would be better for him than going through a lawsuit. One of the tragedies of divorce is that it can be a challenge financially. I know my mom struggled when my father left. I had choices to make and some of them did include me wearing unofficial pants and socks while I saved the money to get the official ones. Took me 3 years to get 100% official uniform, and it wasn't until I was issued a uniform by national supply did I finally get a brand new uniform. Other things were more important like putting food on the table, paying the bills, and my education. Public school system in the New Orleans metro area is so bad folks who work for the public school system like my mom send their kids to private school. But there are folks who abuse the system. My high school did Thanksgiving drives for needy families. Most I saw were in need. Some were in similar situations as mine. But there was one family one year that made my blood boil. When delivering the food, folks in brand new clothes and a house full of top of the line video game and entertainment technology. Moral is, every situation is differnt and you cannot generalize.

May I suggest a way to get a "war chest" of badges, especially for the Cub Scout Folks as in my expereince, National Supply, and hence almost all the shops, run short of CS rank from about Jan-Apr. What you need to do is use two advancement reports. One advancement report is the actual one with everything listed, signatures, etc. The second Advancement Report only has one or two, and I stress ONE OR TWO ranks, on it that are on the original report and mark "REPLACEMENTS" (Cap and bold are emphasis). Some scouts do have multiple shirts, especially those doing NYLT or Jambo, and they need extra rank. When I worked for national supply, to get rank with signatures on an advancement report, you had to show proof of it being earned,i.e book, shirt with badge, pocket cert, etc, fill out an AR, and mark "replacement" on the report. In regards to GTA, I disagree. In 3.0.0.3 Unit Advancement Responsibilities, the GTA does state the following: 7. Establish practices that will (emphasis mine) bring each new Boy Scout to First Class rank within a year of joining, and then to Star rank the following year. Also a lot of other BSA literature pushes the FCFY mentaltity that scouts must get FC in a year. IOLS syllabus is a good example of that IMHO>

With all due respect, some religions due have strict guidelines on dress. The female Muslim Venturers in the Centennial Parade I saw come immediately to mind. And if the CO is a religious house of worship, they can set the uniform standard of no shorts. Also I was told LDS units also have no shorts policies due to religious reasons.

No medical, no stay at camp, no refund has been around a LONG Time. I know that was policy when I went to camp back in the 1980s. Worked at a camp that sent a scout home until he could get a physical. If memory serves, the actual physician portion of the old form was a month or so out of date. SM drove him to an urgent care place to get it done, which took a few hours. That said one thing that helps if you got the resource, is leaders or parents who are MDs, DOs, PA, RNPs, and others who can sign off on the physical in your unit. Just remember YP still applies if you get the physicals done through the unit.

Yes 1 COR per Charter Org. They are district/council level scouters, if in uniform wear silver loops and no unit numbers. To be honest in all my years on district committees, I've only seen 1 COR active, and he ended up as District Chair. And to be honest, I didn't know CORs were part of the district and council until I started on this thread. Not mentioned in professional training when I went through it, and wasn't something that was brought up by my old boss. Then again, if CORs knew athey could vote him out of a job.....

I believe it's in his AIDS TO SCOUTMASTERS. Where's KUDU when we need him