Eagle92

My $.02 worth. If he asked for no public recognition for the donations, please honor his wishes. We had a major FOS donor who diod not want to be singled out. FOS dinner was fine, Norman Rockwell print that was part of the FOS package, fine, But being singled out, NO WAY. Well my FOS chair, who knew and worked with the donor decided that he would present the donor his Heritage Society recognitions, i.e James e. West Knot with Society device, plaque, etc, at the FOS dinner. The donor was not happy, but fortunately knew the FOS chair and realized the chair did it spur of the moment and I had no part in it. The photos are good. Another idea is to invite him to camp with the unit and COHs, especially ECOHs. One of the units I started has a major contributor and the invite him to all campouts (he tries to attedn 1/year), attend mosts COHs, and has not missed an ECOH since they started getting Eagles 2 years ago (he's 4/4 and in all likelyhoo 5/5 after this weekend). Best part is, with the exception of those leaders who work for him, no one would recognize him onthe street. Another idea that an old troop of mine did was Christmas caroling. This troop would load up everyone on a bus, and go to the nursing home and then to specific houses of people who have helped out the troop during the year, and sing Christmass carols. Great way to say thank you, great publicity for Scouting, and really gets people into the Christmas spirit.

Way back in the day, you may be recognized for passing your BOR, but would have to wait for next COH to get rank. That was in the age of dinosaurs like me who had time requirements for all ranks. You would get recognized, maybe even assume new leadership responsibilities, but wait until the COH to get the new rank presented to you. Sincve there were time requirements, very few folks skipped wearing a rank. Plus COHs were every three months. Since removing the time requirements for Tenderfoot through First Class, it is now policy to recognize the Scout with his rank ASAP, usually at the next meeting. They get the rank, but the extras; i.e. parent's pins, moving name upward on a troop's progress chart, etc are done at the COH.

CONGRATULATIONS!

I can tell you right now that if ANY type of SMC is done, whether negative or positive, it is considered a SMC and the requirement is met. IF a SM refuses to sign and the Scout appeals, the scout will win the appeal. Had this situation in my district a few years back and went all the way to national. National sided with the scout.

Scott, Not trying to through stones at all. As you pointed out, LDS leaders are drafted, and with frequent changes in leadership, it can make communication difficult. The one LDS unit that was in the loop, as their bishop was active on the Dis.Comm. kicked butt at district camporees. IMO you need at least a corps of leaders who do not change every year. It just seems as soon as the new leaders get the hang of things, they get replaced.

RDCrisco, From your other post about Varsity Scouting, I am assuming that you are with an LDS unit. Please do not take this as a criticism of LDS units, but from the district and council's perspective the biggest challenge is keeping up with the leadership of the LDS units. That's been my experience as a professional, district training chair, and OA adviser in my current district. The only time that I have encountered an LDS unit that was "in the loop" was when the bishop took an active role on the District Committee. He eventually served as District Chairmen. Just my $.02 on some possible solutions. 1) Get the COR to district committee meetings. 2) Talk with DE, Dis. Chair, and Dist. Comm. about the challenges you are facing. 3) Make sure the leader info is up to date. That was my biggest challenge: finding the current leadership 4) get involved with district activities. Big challenge with the LDS unit in my district as they don't really come to RT, District camporee, or Council Camporee. But that also is another challenge. One sec, is your strake within the same boundaries as the district and/or council you are in? It hit me that the LDS unit's strake is mostly in another council. Because the strake pays for summer camp, training, etc they are usually more involved with the other council and not our district. Could this be a possible reason why the district doesn't know about you?

Liz, the problem with Made to Measure uniforms is that 1) You must purchase 2 sets of uniforms 2) Payment must be mad ein advance with no refunds allowed 3) You are paying alot more to have it made 4) you will need to go to a seamstress or tailor to get the correct measurements.

While I don't have any ideas on fixing pockets, one thing 've seen done is to make a new seam at the sides. basically the mom tucked in the sides of the shirt, and handstitched the shirt so that is was a little smaller. As the Scout grew, she cut out her stitching and let the shirt out. Hope I described that one. Also the old orange TC shirts are still official and can be worn. He just won't be able to wear his rank. If dad was a TC, you could always say that this is just like the TC uniform dad wore.

When I worked for supply, we told parents to get the uniform "big enough for them to grow into, but without looking clownish." We had Cubs with the bottom of their shirt pockets at their belt. They do grow and grow fast. My advice is to try and find a bunch of photos of cub scouts in action, especially local unit photos as national does use models for things, and look at their uniforms. You will notice alot of youth with large uniforms.

Yes a MBC is a district scouter. Yes you can limit who you take for counseling. I have an assumption on why SCOUTNET doesn'ty have the limiter in place, but you knwo what happens when you assume.

Need to clarify, you SHOULD NOT USE council tax id number.

In reference to the offical shorts, when I was out looking for gray shorts, this is prior to the offical shorts coming out in Aug '99, I was at REI looking at gray camping shorts. I found a nice pair of REI shorts that looked good, but had elastic in them which I hate. A few months later BSA came out with the offical Venturing shorts, and they were the EXACT same REI shorts I rejected a few months earlier, except they added the Venturing tag.

Gcan, Unless your unit is chartered by the council, you really shouldn't have the council's tax exempt number. Your CO's number, fine and dandy. Most unit's don't have access to any of those numbers though.

Concur with SCTLDR, give it to the CO with a WRITTEN agreement that it is funneled back to the pack.

Ok I am late to the discussion as well but here is my $.02 worth. 1) In reference to the campaign hat, please show me a reference in ANY version of the Insignia Control Guide that says you cannot wear a campaign hat with a Venturing uniform. Cub Scouters can wear it, Scouts and Scouters can wear it, and Venturers and their advisers can wear it. I been wearing my Smokey Bear with my green and gray lately. FWIW I would use the BSA's Expedition hat and put a Venturing pin on it. The hat is crushable, water proof, and looks AWESOME with the Venturing uniform. 2) In reference to khaki shirt and green loops, while at one time that was Ok and allowed by national, that was during the Explorer period. With Venturing it is the green shirt only now. 3) Once upon a time, Venturing did not have official gray shorts (they came out in August 1999) nor official gray pants (they came out in August 2000). When I attended the 1998 NLTC, which formally introduced the Venturing Program, I was told by the then national director of venturing that "any gray shorts or pant would do." So I got my green venturing strip to cover my Exploring strip, and purchased a pair of gray shorts and gray pants to wear with the uniform. I still have and wear both. 4) I have seen a Venture crew use gray BDU trousers for their uniform pants. The crew established the gray BDU pants prior to national coming out with official pants. For the sake of uniformity (and also cost) they kept the BDU pants since "were allowed by national." Don't know if they got any complaints or not as I was no longer affiliated with the unit, but at the Eagle COH I attended later on, The Crew members were all in BDU pants and no one from council complained.

Tokala, Some misinformation, 18-20 y.o. leaders are considered youth and are voted upon. further they can vote as well. This is from the Guide for Officers and Advisers, page 22

Beavah writes "By and large, my experience has been that if anybody wearin' olive and khaki says somethin' about "liability" they are probably makin' it up to sound more important." Beavah, Good thing I don't wear olive and khaki, I wear spruce green and grey! LOL

Beavah, When I was at camp school, I was told about the liability issues involved in running a COPE Course without proper supervision. I was also told that If I knew something was happening in advance and did not try and correct the situation, I could be held liable for negligence since I had the training and was still certified at the time. Also when I mention that I pulled the CIT out of the program, not only was he my trading post CIT, but also a scout in my troop that I recruited to work that summer. Since his parents entrusted him to my care as an ASM, I further felt it was my duty to pull him out since it violated G2SS. You do bring up a good point, I could have been fired, and was even threatened with such by my boss if I interfered again. And yes I was prepared to lose my job over this. Funny thing is when I asked for a written statement that I would not be held legally responsible, she wouldn't give me one. However the DSS did thank me for interfereing since it would be the council's butt on the line if anything did happen, especially since the camp director was a DE. Post Script the DE was reprimanded and not allowed to work summer camp again.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

A few things, 1) BW, unfortunately they don't teach about the Wreath of Service on the insignia at PDL-1. That was something I learned when I became a volunteer againand went theough commissioner training. 2) In reference to "BSA Rules Police," we all have a responsibility to keep them and enforce them. WE are all leaders. WE are all responsible. However there are diffeerent approaches to enforcement. And sometimes you need to "Be Prepared" for the consequences. If you are the primary leader, i.e. the one on the tour permit, then yes you need to get involved. Be tactful, be polite, but be firm. But there are times when you need to go in charging like a bull, i.e. youth protection, Safe Swim Defense, etc. Also there are times when we may not be the primary leader, but because of advance training, i.e. NCS, that if we know something is happening and we don't do anything to stop it, then we are legally liable even if we had nothing to do with planning or execution. Then you have to do something. This happened to me at summercamp. While I was not the COPE Director that year, I was still certified as such and had some legal liability if anything happened. The Camp Director was using the COPE Course without a director one week and I made a big stink of it, to the point of pulling my CIT from the COPE group. Although I caught all types of trouble form the other staffers, the CD, and my boss for interfering with a council's operations ( I was working supply division at the time), I stuck to my guns and kept my CIT out of the program. Further word was given to the council's Dir. of Sup. Services. Then there are times when you are not the primary leader. This is when you need tact and diplomacy to make it into a learning moment for the leader, and eventually the scouts. I wa salways taught to Praise in Public, critique in private,a nd that is what I do.

Yes the 18-21 year age bracket is a tough time for young leaders. Been there, done that, have the tenure to prove it. Again full fledge leader roles are 21 and above, assistants 18 and older. Don't quote me, but I think he can serve on the pack committee, something to consider. Why I mention this is that a committee member's primary role is support, and if his schedule is crazy that position may be viable. That way he is registered with the pack and covered by insurance, while being able to help out as he can. Again check out the viability of the MC role.

Liz, my old troop had a similar problem to the one you described. Except it wasn't MBs but adavcnement. one of our guts was listed as First Class by council and was denied the EBOR because he was "only first class." The AC did the job of getting the award and turning in the paperwork, but not keeping the paperwork. We solved the problem by taking the Scout's book, photocopying it, and filling out an advancement report with attached copy. Problem solved.

Res, While national does respond to local council complaints, believe it or not they respond better (and faster)if you complain directly to them. trust me on this. While working for supply, we received letters about the lack of knee socks. We forwarded them to Charlotte. However those who wrote directly to Charlotte, got replys from them, and faster than we did. Eagle92

DLuders, I know your ticked, and I have too when I've been in your shoes. I can tell you 1)councils can NOT opt out of SCOUTNET. National mandates its use, just like they are now mandating that OA Lodges use some new software that also has problems. Your PD may have a expressed a wish that they could opt out since he is on the receiving end of complaints. Again COUNCILS CANNOT OPT OUT OF SCOUTNET. 2)If memory serves me correct (it's been 9 years since I served as a pro with a council; also things may have changed with the database), council's do not have backup privileges. They can only input data and access it. They cannot store it. Again we had to do a mailout using SCOUTNET and it took three months to get the labels printed because all the information came from the computers in Irving. 3)Having councils backup data on a spreadsheet is unreasonable. Trust me it is a long time consuming just putting info into the database. When you got the number of volunteers of a small council like mine, let alone a Metro size council, the numbers are staggering. Ther is just not enough time and/or manpower to do both. Again my advice would be the following. 1) Send a letter to the SE expressing your displeasure with the problem accompanied by your copy of the training records. 2) Along with the letter to the SE and a copy of your records, I would ask for a computer printout of your records to be sent to you. that way you know it is in the system and you have a verifiable copy of your records from council so there is no confusion later. 3)Send a letter to national. I don't know the contact info, but I bet if you googled it you could find the exact person to contact. Express you displeasure to them, an dhow they need to fix SCOUTNET. Again I feel for you as I've been in your shoes. Further I had to reconstitute the training records of my entire district. You think dealing with just your records is a pain, try dealing with 60+ volunteers who responded to your call to fix the records. Trying to get everyone to turn in the forms was a pain as evidenced by the low number of people turning the surveys in.

Not an SE but a DE who was the lodge's staff adviser that retired. We knew he paid out of pocket for a lot of stuff and went the extra mile for the lodge. Best Staff adviser we ever had, and he is still active as a volunteer in scouting and the lodge. All the advisers for the lodge and a few youth and other adults got together and contributed $500 as a thank you gift. Most of us wish we could afford more because he has, and continues to, served the lodge.

Shortridge, Actually record keeping is part of national's responsibility now. Council's provide teh training and record it. What is supposed to happen is that national keeps the records via SCOUTNET and those records follow you if you move. The council's responsibility is to input the data. if the pull a report, they log on to SCOUTNET to get it. If data is lost, it is not the council's fault, but national's since they are teh record keepers. Councils just run reports from and input data to the SCOUTNET database. As stated there are MAJOR problems with Scoutnet. none of my records have transferred when I moved around. heck I was the district training chair and according to the records I've been to no training, not even YPT. Frustrating, yes. Council's fault, no. If you want to complain, i'ld write to national since they are responsible for this faldercarb.