Eagle92

Skeptic, There are challenges with SCOUTNET. 1) Not all information is getting entered into SCOUTNET as it gets sent to the office. Grant you this is a local problem, but it's a frustrating one. And how do I know stuff isnt' getting entered into SCOUTNET? I had advancement sent to me after the council received the report, but 3 months later the info is still not in SCOUTNET. 2) SCOUTNET does not allow records to move with an individual as they switch councils. Both my registrar and SE told me this after I mentioned that records are not moving with folks who transfer into the council. I was told SCOUTNET never allowed a person's records to move with them, which is a direct contradiction of what the then national SCOUTNET director told us at training.

BSA, I was informed that it is cheaper, and sturdier, to take the current BSHB, got to Staples, and get them to spiral bind it.

Patrol fly is always up fist since you can store your personal gear and patrol gear under it while you set up the tents. Unless it is a heavy canvas "marquee" type fly, shouldn't take 40 minutes to an hour to set up. Now a marquee type fly, but especially a tent, THAT"S A WHOLE 'NOTHER STORY

Bnelon, While the GTA may say that the unit does not have an option, several questions. 1) Who is going to enforce the rule? Is national going to say that EBORS will have to follow somethign like NJ's council and have blue cards at BORS? That still leaves my original question of what to do with those Scouts who come from troops that have not used them and/or councils that have summer camp programs that do not use them? Or worse, major catastrophe where the scout's stuff has been destroyed? I'm not talking Katrina bad, although I lost so much stuff that was still stored at my mom's house b/c of Katrina, but a tornado, fire etc cold wipe out stuff. 2)I believe the unit charters give some, not a lot, but some control on HOW a CO administers the program. yes they must follow rules and regs, and while GTA does indeed gives policies on how to conduct BORS, do advancement, etc, how a scout or unit keeps their records is one of those that COS has control over. Otherwise we woudl still be using the unit record books, and not have any of the various software like TroopMaster, Packmaster, etc. 3) If national wants to focus on a serious advancement, and other areas too, problem, then lets redo SCOUTNET. Back in 1998, I was told by the then national SCOUTNET director that with SCOUTNET would allow anyone's records to move withthem from council to council. So if Tommy Teatime in Pack 4 in Occonneechee Council moves to Pack 806 in Far East Council, as long as he knows his membership #, his records transfer. Same if Mom or dad is a leader: there records move with them. Then I find out why I kept having to resubmit everything every time I move to a new council; SCOUTNET does NOT allow records to move with you, but instead each council has to reenter the records. I'm not trying to bash the regs, but BSA needs some type of way to enforce the rules, otherwise they will be ignored. Look at uniforming as one example.

2Cub, Serious as a heart attack. Again I know of units and councils that do not use blue cards. And while I deliberately used that hated phrase, a phrase I hate too by the way, "adding to the requirements," the purpose of it was to draw attention to the fact that the district's/council's policy is not part of the normal EBOR procedure and would hurt folks if they transferred in from another council. NJ, I admit it's been a while since I dealt with Eagle apps, but how in the heck can you submit an application for Eagle prior to the BOR's approval and signature?!?!?!?! Sorry never heard of such a thing before, and I've been in 5 councils.

My opinion is YES. While not all of the information needed to advance is in the current handbook, when I taught T-2-1 Skills at IOLS I had to create a pamphlet with the missing skills in it, IT IS NECESSARY FOR RECORD KEEPING (emphasis). The SCOUT (emp) is responsible for his own advancement and records, not the unit, although they do keep track, and not the council as all they do is record what they are given. I have seen to many council records being screwed up, and I have seen those screw up affect two Eagles. An it was the BSHBs of those two Eagles that that fixed the problem. As for scouts transferring into units, if there is no transfer form and they are form another council, or if the council both units are in has messedup records, it's the BSHB that is used to fix the probelm/

One thing to remember, local distributors, i.e. most council shops and other businesses, do not have to honor the warranty, only nationally owned scout shops do. In fact when I tried to return a defective pair of pants to the local distributor, I was told they couldn't honor the warranty they would be charged a restock fee if they tried to return them. However I could return them to the national shop with no problem. And the first time I returned the pants, it was NO PROBLEM. Second time, the clerk tried to tell me he couldn't do it, but I reminded him about the policy, asked for the manager, and when one wasn't available, asked if I needed to call Charlotte and ask about it. I got the pants exchanged. What's interesting is that A) I had older pants that went though more abuse that were in better shape than the 2 yo pants I exchanged B) The employee was talking about how he goes to REI every year and gets new boots fro free b/c he exchanges them b/c the soles wear fast.

Nicknames are a fact of life in my area, esp with COPE staff and within the OA. I've had bunch in my time in scouting. From Jambalaya from a food from my home town, to Tackleberry or Tack for short b/c I was running the rifle range in the UK, to Yoda b/c of my COPE work. That pretty much has stuck. I know in one instance, there is a gentleman who no one knows his real name, everyone knows his nickname. When it came time for Vigil, his nickname had to be used to ID him, and helped get his Vigil name.That nick name, and his penchant for pyrotechnics, got him the Vigil name of Witty Firebuilding Manservant.

it's still around, but restricted. http://www.scoutstuff.org/national-youth-leadership-training-emblem.html An aside, kinda funny it still has the 3 bars of a SPL, but they no longer use the term in the course.

I was asked by my Dist. Commish to fill in for him tomorrow at the commish meeting. Looking at the Boy Scout advancement report, I've been dealing with Cub Scouts so I haven't paid attention, I noticed that Crews are listed for T-2-1 in addition to S-L-E. And I also noticed no report for the venturing recognitions listed. Could anyone enlighten me on that one/

NJ, Wouldn't attaching blue cards to the application be considered adding to the requirements? I ask because as I mentioned not every unit uses blue cards, and if a Scout transfer in from a unit that didn't use blue cards, wouldn't he be penalized?

until the Scout goes for Eagle and the person at the troop who was suppose to get the email and didn't report it is long gone. That's why you have the MBC sign in the BSHB since that is the offical advancement record that troops, and in turn the council, uses. I've had 2 experiences where the council's records were messed up. After my EBOR, when the p/w was being reviewed by council, the registrar at the time entered the date she recorded the info into their records and not the date the award was actually earned. this led to 2 problems A) some of the MBs for whatever reason were being recorded by council as being earned AFTER the rank BOR ( don't ask how that happened) and B) some of the time requirements were not being met according to the dates entered by the registrar. I had to turn in a copy of my BSHB with everything signed off to correct the council's records. Another incident was when a friend was having his records reviewed after his EBOR, despite several attempts to get the council records corrected, they still had him listed as a First Class Scout. Again copies of the BSHB, as well as unit's copy of the advancement reports, were submitted to correct the records.

Here are some things I've seen done/ have done 1) Having the MBC sign off in the book, i.e. under Star, Life and Eagle, and in my day First Aid in First Class advancement records, have the MBC write in the MB earned and signed/initialed. 2) Signed off in the MBP. Problem with that was the MBP couldn't be reused. Some folks would photo copy the requirements section of the book 3) Sign off in the Requirements Book that listed all the requirements for all recognitions. 4) Sign off the online workbooks.

B, Yep I know what the G2A says now, but what I've described is how things have been done, and probably still being done in some areas. I'll ask about blue cards and summer camp when I get the chance as I've never been to a camp, either as a camper, volunteer, or staffer, that issued blue cards. Plus those units that do use the blue card usually buy the 100 count pack, and probably still have a large inventory. In my expereince, most scouts do their MBs at summmer camp. Base, With the exception of summer camp which sent out reports on who completed what to the SMs at the end of camp, growing up the MBCs signed the BSHB to show you passed XYZ MB. Either the scout or the MBC would write in the MB on the advancement line and then sign or initial in the appropriate spot. Then up the chain to get it at the COH. Only time I've seen otherwise was "stealth advancement," i.e. the MBC working on a fun topic, and while working on the fun topic, we meet requirements without knowing about it. Motorboating MB comes immediately to my mind.

What's a blue card? Seriously though, growing up I never saw a blue card. In fact the first time I saw a pack of them was when I helped the national scout shop move from the old location to the new one. They were not a hot item either. As an MBC, I've seen them 2 maybe 3 times max. Most of the time it's either the MBP, the worksheets from online sources, or a notebook with the work in it. Don't think it's a big deal.

SP, For those in Cubs, the hard part is the long term camping requirement. This district leader met the requirement via NCS.

Emb, Emb, Emb, I'm surprised at ya since you have. that excellent website with a history senior scouting. The old Leadership Corps patch is also authorized for the right pocket. On another, more serious, note, can someone confirm or deny this one for me? I was told that the old Brownsea 22 patch was also authorized for the right pocket. Thanks

WELCOME ABOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and yes i am screaming at ya ) A few questions before I comment. 1) How old is the troop and your older scouts? 2)How familiar are they with the Patrol Method, i.e. the scouts are planning and doign things while the adults sit in their chairs and do not get involved except in an emergency? 3) Have you ever heard of William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt? Now for some commentary, the absolute HARDEST part of your situation IMHO is that the Adults are having a hard time coming from CS mode and into BS mode, am I right or wrong? Some ideas to help solve that problem are the following: 1) get a committee that is trained, supports the patrol method, and will run interference with the adults. 2) Hold a meeting with all adults and explain how the patrol method works, how advancement works, etc. Explain that the scouts need to succeed or FAIL ( that's key concept) on their own. 3) When you go on trips, set up activities that will keep the adults busy AND away from the Scouts. Now some advice. 4) Get your PLC a copy of the Troop Program Features, Volumes 1-3, and the Troop Program Resource book. The Resource book has a CD with a ton of paperwork forms in pdf format. Those books are a resource fo r the PLC to plan their year, and each volume has 12 different activities. 5) Get yourself and/or the SM a copy of the 3rd. ed. SM HB, volumes 1 and 2. It really sounds as if you are rebuilding a troop program, and Green Bar Bill is "DA MAN" when it comes to patrol method and troop operations. While some things in the book are outdated, i.e. trenching tents and pre Youth Protection, it is an EXCELLENT foundation wioth great ideas to help.

Why don't you ask your older scouts how they would do it, and then let them run it?

Oh have I dealt with this issue. In regards to missing records, I have done, or advised doing. Pre INTERNET ADVANCEMENT Took the BSHB and used it to fill out an advancement report to correct the council's records (person was using the date they put the records into the system and not the date the items were actually earned. Currently, Once I got access to Internet Advancement, took the pack's PACKMASTER records and updated SCOUTNET.

I didn't read all the files, but the one I did read, where volunteers and parents knew the background and still wanted the adult to be a volunteer surprised me a bit.

Horizon, if memory serves, BSA started background checks for all new leader applications in 2002 or therabouts. So if you moved from council A to council B, or moved from a Cub Scout leader position to Boy Scout leader position,etc, you had a background check done. In 2008 was when all leaders who had registered and remained active in the same position prior to 2002, you know the SMs and ASMs who had BP as SM and GBB as SPL , had to submit to a background check or be dropped. I remember that because one SM since the 1960s, and yes he is still SM in the same unit, didn't submit the paperwork for the background check and was dropped when recharter came. He had to fill out a new application and what not.

One I heard about on the national training FB page was that it now won't matter what color "Trained" strip a person will wear. Cub and Venturing leaders can wear the tan and green trained strip like the BS leaders, and Boy Scout leaders will be able to wear the red and tan trained strip like the Cub and Venturing leaders. My question about unit numbers not mattering anymore either remained unanswered.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Quaz, With all do respect, I think BP does have a point. Being involved when Venturing came out, it was originally designed to be wide open, allowing COs and the youth of a unit to decide what they wanted and did not want to do. With the exception of the requirements for the various "recognitions," they were not advancement in 1998, nothing was set in stone so to speak, and even then, units didn't have to use the recognition system. Venturing is successful, membership is growing if memory serves. And it appears that folks at national are trying to mess with success. And as I mentioned in another thread, a lot of pros do not know much about Venturing, and don't get me started on Sea Scouts, the second oldest program in the BSA. Back when I was looking into becoming a DE, one of my mentors was an Sr. Exploring Exec, and he advised me NOT ( emph.) to specialize in Exploring and become an Exploring Exec because you limit yourself and there is not much room to grow b/c of the specialization.

That's the challenge, having balance. I like my current lodge a lot. Yes we work hard, 3 Ordeals, a work day, and numerous chapter work days plus additional service work at camps, i.e. staff ing trading post to make money for camp improvement and camperships, BUT WE PLAY JUST AS HARD !!!!!! I remember coming aboard as chapter adviser, and my chapter was all worked out. Someone on the district planned the Webeloree what we staffed the same weekend as Conclave, the biggest party of non-NOAC years. So in about 4 years, only 1 member of our chapter ever attended a conclave, and he was the lodge chief. Everyone was putting service first, and it was wearing us out. I convinced the new webeloree chief to change the dates for the OA, and being an Arrowman he agreed over the objections of the district member who originally scheduled it. Chapter grew by leaps and bounds.