Eagle92

My take on the World Crest, if you would have earned it under the old requirements, i.e. either spent 5 days on a scout function out of the country, or sponsored someone in you home for 5 days, then I would wear it. Otherwise no don't do it.

If memory serves me right, the Arrow of Light was once called the WEBELOS AWARD. this was when the ranks were only Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, and Lion. When they changed the Lions to WEBELOS, then the award became the AOL. Hence anyone who earned the old WEBELOS award can wear the AOL Know. But the insignia control Guide would haev the best answer.

In reference to venture patrols earning the Varsity/Venture Letter, reference to that is definately in the Insignia Control Guide. I also believe it's in the requirements book, and possibly in the Advancement Book. Originally the letter was for varsity teams only, as there were no venture patrols at the time Varsity was created, only the Leadership Corps for older scouts. When they introduced the Venture patrol, they expanded the Letter to their use as well. They also created pins that are more scout related than sports related like Backpacking and Survival. The camp I worked at tried to implement an older scout program that incorporated earning some of these pins. But hardly anyone knew about the Varsity/Venture Letter, and wthere was zero interest.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

The insignia Control Guide has the exact location for the Philmont Bull and the Charles L Summers Loon that is also worn on the red jac shirt on the shoulder in the same location. Sorry Don't remember if Sea base have something or not. if not let it be the starfish.

in reference to elangomats: my lodge created some "elangomat" sashes that are black with a white arrow. Only time they are worn is at Ordeals by elangomats doing arduous labor with the candiates. The Ordeal master checks them out, and then checks them in.

Does anyone have a copy of a handout called "the Uses of a Scout Staff" which I believe had some of BP's drawing on it? this was sheet of paper I got from the BROWNSEA 22 training I did way back and showed you soemof the many ways yu can use a sciout staff, i.e. survival kit, orienteering, scale, ruler, etc. I know I have mine somewhere, btu can't find the right box at this time. Eagle92

While I've been in councils and districts that don't have camporees becasue of soemof the problems mentioned, I am fortunate in that my current district doesn't have that problem yet. Our camporees do have a scouting related theme and all activities are scout based skills related to the theme. We must be doign something right as traditioally all troops save our LDS one are in attendance, and last year they did show up friday and saturday Now do we have room for improvement, certainly because anything and everything can be improved upon. One idea that has been proposed is getting youth involved inthe planning process. that is somehting that is being taken into consideration very seriously!

There's been talk about a kindergartener program for over 10 years now, since I went to PDL-1. Nothing has occurred yet and I don't think it will.

Chikara, If the color of the loops was the result of a misprint back in 1979, then it should have been corrected in 1979, not 2008, almost 30 years later. A scout is thrify, and I know people who save their loops just in case they need them again, for sentimental reasons, and in case they know someone know needs them. heck I'm one of them. I still got my blue loops from being a Webelos and plan on using them when I get into cubs again as a leader. I Also I got my gold loops still after working supply, you never know when I'll be a regional volunteer I've seen people mix and match old patches and loops on the new uniform. I hate to say it, but it will continue until a drastic new redesign occurs. let's face it the uniforms are expensive, especially with the economy in the crapper. People will pinch every penny they can, and that means they will take patches off old uniforms and put them on the new ones. Again my $.02 worth.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

SctDad, So how did you like your first fellowship, despite the rain. Sorry I couldn't talk more, but I told yuo i'ld be running around with my head chopped off. At the Lodge banquet, I'll intro you to one of my chapter's members who had the Eagle head carved onto his staff. Also did you know the Lodge Adviser is a passionate wood carver?

In reference to the origianl question pertaining to Pack Overniters, I've had no experience with pack overniters. Troop campouts with Webelos along, yes, but pack overniters No. usually the Packs want the OA to do the AOL and Crossover Ceremonies. That being said, I have lent out chapter regalia to Arrowmen who were doing round ups.

Sctdad, Once upon a time, I was told that our lodge had a major presence at all outdoor activities, including the CS ones. Now I don't know what happened council wide, but I know on the chapter level in my part of the council, the OA kinda burned out. We have been doign the basics in reference to our district Webeloree in running the TP and campfire. While we do have individual Arrowmen running events, it not coordinated by the chapter because we are still trying to rebuild. Now the lodge is starting to get back into things with the rebirth of our AIA committee. We were asked to do the show at council camporee, we had some scouts put on performances at summercamp, and we had a small presence at Cub Family campout. Part of the challenge was that we got invited to participate at the Cub Family Campout abotu a month before it was scheduled. I've already talked to Tom about giving us some advance notice fro next year. From my experience with another lodge, the OA can play a major role in CS events. One thing we did was set up a tomahawk toss for leaders, Boy Scouts, and Explorers (this was back in the day obviously). We had folks in regalia running the event and there was a huge line. Then again with 8000+ folks in attendance and three folks at a time throwing, that should have been expected At that same event, the lodge did an arena show. grant you not the same quality as a jamboree or NOAC, but it was pretty awesome. hope to meet ya tonight

I remember the days we could sing for lost items. I and the scouts I was with at that time had no problem with singing for our stuff. taught us to be more careful. Hmmm maybe I should use the powwow tradition of buying back your lost items when I become a unit leader again since singing is now considered hazing by the BSA, or so I was told at PDL-1 when we I made someone sing for the hat they left behind.

We call these things 'Webelorees" in my neck of the woods, and the event only covers requirement 5. Now I do know of a few units that take Webelos on two campouts, usually spring camporee and fall camporee. Way I've been told is that fall camporee covers outdoorsman, Webeloree handles AOL 5, and Spring camporee covers AOL 4b

Yes camp promo is more than just the local summer camp, and I know why alot of troops go OOC: costs more than XYZ camp, ABC camp is closer, bad staff expereince in the past, HIJ camp has cooler weather, ad nauseum. But some of the leaders haven't been to the local camp in years. And I am also of the opinion that as long as scouts go to summercamp, any scout summercamp, they are good to go. But the last SE had made summercamp a priority. He causes alot of controversy with logging the sections of the camp, but he also made major improvements with the money. I do Ordeals at the camp and the improvements in just 2 months between them is staggering. Also with staff problems in the past, the SE made staff selection and training a priority, with the staff getting paid for the training weekends prior to staff week. Unlike the time I worked staff when they were desparate and would take anyone, the selection process does its job an ensures we get quality staff members. In reference to the adult, public speaking is not a problem: in fact if you mention the word "Philmont" in any conversation, you won't shut him up heck anythign to do with camping and the outdoors will get him going as he is 110% Scout. What is upsetting is that this is one of the troops that always go OOC, and they have a new leader. The old one hadn't set foot at the camp for years and doesn't even know about the improvements. So it was vital to do the promo to show them what's new. Further the OA is not very active in this unit. This is the unit in which when the chapter did the unit visit last year, of the 16 eligible Scouts, 8 said they didn't want to have anything to do with the OA. And of those elected (4) only 1 went through the Ordeal. So we were also trying to make a good impression, and the adult knew this. So by not doing the camp promo part of the unit visit, i think it will leave a very bad impression of the OA,and I don't know if they will let us back to do the camp promo.

As my friends from the 105th Glasgow Scout troop told me when I worked at Youlbury International Scout Camp, "9 tenths of the time we don't wear anything under the kilts. But that 1 tenth of the time we wear shorts because some of the women might get a wee bit offended, and all the men would be jealous."

Kudu, Thanks for the clarification I thought you were saying that GBB was the one who created the false quotes. That didn't strike me as something that GBB would do.

In reference to Green Bar Bill, how do you know he made inncorrect quotes? GBB had access to BP, and after his death to Lady BP and his papers and letters. That's why his biography is so good. Grant you Jeal made a few good points in his work that GBB was influenced by Lady BP, but still GBB had access to everything Lady BP and others had.

I am just curious how other lodges do camp promotions? Also if you use technology, what do you do when it doesn't work or is not available? I ask these questions to get ideas to improve camp promotions and to see how a situation that arose last nite should have been handled. I tell that story at the end. In reference to the first question, in one lodge I was in, they had an automated slide show that they produced every year. Grant you that was before the age of cheap videocameras and dvds, but it worked. It was updated with new photos every year and the OA was completely responsible for making it and presenting it. In my current we use a DVD that is produced by the council. My problem is that they are using the same one that they made last year, so all but the new scouts have seen the video already. Another problem is that not all units have access to a DVD player and TV that is large enough for the unit to see the movie. In reference to the second question, when the technology doesn't work or isn't available, I try to get the youth to talk about their camp experiences. Unfortunately there have been times when the youth with me has not been to the local summer camp (half the units in my district go out of council) and I used my camp staff experience to do the promo. Now for the situation. We do a "unit visit" where we do the unit election and camp promotion on the same nite. Our visitation team consisted of two adults and three youth. A last minute emergency came up and the youth and adult with the equipment could not make it. I told the other adult to talk about his experience at summer camp since the two youth are from units that go OOC. The other adult decided against that, did the unit election and skipped the camp promotion. Your thoughts.

The more help you can get, the better, so let him be a DC. It gives him an outlet for his enthusiasm, allows him to be an example to the TCs, and provides him with a chance to get a little leadership experience. Seems to me a win-win situation for all. HOWEVER if he has a history of behavior problems, you may want him to mature a little. BUT it sounds as if he is one motivated Scout As for the First Class rule and being new to scouts, I was a DC as a Tenderfoot. Got interested when they needed Scouts to help with day camp and I volunteered. I did a good enough job that I was asked to be a DC for my old pack. great time and experience.

GW, Your comment made my night Seriously use tomahawks and not axes. 'hawks have better balance and are designed for throwing. My old OA lodge had a tomahawk toss for a council encampment. We used some very large tree segments on tripods as targets. And yes we ran it like a shooting sports area with three lanes for throwing, nothing occurring behind the area and a "coach" with every thrower. Only problem we had was the lines as EVERYONE wanted to do it. Heck I was even dressed in regalia running the event. needless to say it was the 2nd most popular event, after the Civil War reenactors.

GW, Your comment made my night Seriously use tomahawks and not axes. 'hawks have better balance and are designed for throwing. My old OA lodge had a tomahawk toss for a council encampment. We used some very large tree segments on tripods as targets. And yes we ran it like a shooting sports area with three lanes for throwing, nothing occurring behind the area and a "coach" with every thrower. Only problem we had was the lines as EVERYONE wanted to do it. Heck I was even dressed in regalia running the event. needless to say it was the 2nd most popular event, after the Civil War reenactors.

GW, Your comment made my night Seriously use tomahawks and not axes. 'hawks have better balance and are designed for throwing. My old OA lodge had a tomahawk toss for a council encampment. We used some very large tree segments on tripods as targets. And yes we ran it like a shooting sports area with three lanes for throwing, nothing occurring behind the area and a "coach" with every thrower. Only problem we had was the lines as EVERYONE wanted to do it. Heck I was even dressed in regalia running the event. needless to say it was the 2nd most popular event, after the Civil War reenactors.

Webelos pins are advancement, can be earned at anytime, and should be awarded ASAP.

G Mitch, GOOD FOR YOU AND KEEP IT UP! We have a new district chairman who transferred in and is trying to get the CORs involved. Hopefully we will get more and more interest. Also this may sound crazy, especially from a former pro, but aren't CORs ex officio members of the council's executive board as well? I thought I read that somewhere, but I may be mistaken. Edit: Ok just googled COR and found out the answer to that last question. They are voting members of the council executive board. I never heard that CORs are members of ex. board, and aI guess they were not encouraged to attend by the SE I worked for.(This message has been edited by eagle92)